Curse

Lordhelmos · Jun 02, 2006, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

turrets can host archers and crossbow inside.
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Very nice. I think Engineer is a great class, and you put it very nicely, with its own uniquenss. Its almost how I would revise my Engineer to be!

I like the Material Idea, and think it is a great way to "cap" Engeineer's power, and seem to be a nicer way of doing it (than mine, that is)

About Machinary... is it something that can be operate by all allies? And can it move or rotate? I would also suggest adding some Defensive things there as well, like a Blastshield or Walls.

For Demolition, could add some Mines in there as well.

I am not too found of the awareness skills. Could change it to Smith attribute, which will support more self or ally buff, with cost of material.

I would even add a attribute of Gunsmanship (or for those who shy away from guns, Crossbowmastery), which allow them to better use a mid-long range weapon for better offensive support. And can also add skills in there that enchance its use, with cost of material. (like Scope, Balancer, Tighten Coil, etc)

Here is my old Engineer if you want to take a read. It share few similarities, but also has few "mistake" in there that might help you to better add on to yours.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=85424

Overall, very good. I will add yours on to my list of great CC as well. Kudos

Ty for the input, I did alot of thinking on a crossbow type of weapon for the engineer to use but I came to the conclusions that basically all ranged attacks in the game pretty much are governed by rangers. Adding a crossbow or gun catergory would simply impede on marksmanship. Theres not many categories in the game dealing with range that bows don't cover. Rangers can deal any conditions or interrupt with their bow from longbow range. However I can see how a gun or crossbow might be different in a sense that the arrows fly straight at the enemy instead of lobbing like ranger shots. Also guns and crossbows would hit significantly faster and I think that would throw the balance off the game. "Why use a bow and pump marksmanship when you can use a gun that hits instantly?" Was what I was thinking.

At the end I concluded that the engineer should use a melee weapon because as an engineer you would be spending alot of your time in hot combat zones running and planting bombs as well as building contraptions in key spots. Also the engineer can use their tool weapons to scrap armor and weaken enemies. I gave the engineer a higher AL and added the awarness line because I believe an engineer would need a solid set of defensive skills that allows them to survive while building devices. The turrents and bombs take a long time to make so in my opinion the power of their defensive stances is offset by the idle time it takes them to make a bomb or turret.

Also as for the physics of the turrets and devices, yes the turrets can be used by allies. I would imagine you could click them and man them. They wouldnt be too big and you would be able to swivel them. However I thought of an interesting on how this might work. I will revise the first post with this idea.

Ty again for more input on the idea.

Lordhelmos · Jun 02, 2006, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Made some edits based on crits ^_^

Lordhelmos · Jun 02, 2006, 08:19 AM // 08:19

I also decreased bomb damaging and up material cost with the idea of having too many engineers in the same group cheesing skills. Now an engineer is even more limited in how many objects he or she can have in play at once. Also added some examples of weapons, armor, and also some comparisons to all the other classes in Guildwars. Also added 2 new skills, got rid of some overpowering stuff. Basically just worked on more dynamics and balance. Turrent and bomb physics are also explained along with descriptions of the turrets to show they arent modern at all.

Rikimaru · Jun 02, 2006, 04:47 PM // 16:47

I don't know if it's how you already imagined them to look, but if the turrets were only around knee high it would make sense to be able to carry around the parts to make them in the middle of battle, and it wouldn't seem like it should take nearly as long to make. It'd also explain why they have so few shots.

Also, the turrets could stay there to be dismantled after being destroyed, and you could add a "reload" skill for turrets.

Helll is for Heroes · Jun 02, 2006, 04:52 PM // 16:52

btw guys, guild wars is fantasy.

if it wasnt, i'd be making posts about seeing mechas in the game.

lyra_song · Jun 02, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helll is for Heroes

btw guys, guild wars is fantasy.

if it wasnt, i'd be making posts about seeing mechas in the game.

Oh you mean the Iron Forgeman?

Rikimaru · Jun 02, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Ha, oh man. I'm posting that pic in my Gunslinger thread.

actionjack · Jun 02, 2006, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helll is for Heroes

btw guys, guild wars is fantasy.

if it wasnt, i'd be making posts about seeing mechas in the game.

Actually... because it IS a fantasy, you COULD have engineer and guns and magical robots, and ninjas all in one (assume you use some "magical excuse" to tie them all together)

If anyone remember in Mission two (I don't even remember that is that name), where the Engineer will build you a Catapult that you can blast Charr with. I would imagin Engineer's building animation to be somewhat akin to that (where all parts just magically fly around and comes together)

Lordhelmos · Jun 02, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

I think people are trying to add over-realism to this entire topic. Yes guild wars is a fantasy game. There's no problem with adding new ideas such as crude guns and apparatuses. I mean you have land turtles with cannons strap to their backs. I mean I can't believe how many arguements are spawning about building turrets due to the engineer not being able to hold enough materials in his or her right pocket... or if cannons belong in guild wars or not.

You are playing a game where you can have 5 giant fellblades put in a belt pouch. Full length staffs magically vanish into the air when you emote. I don't see a problem with a character crouching down to a trap setting position to have a wooden turret come together before him. So what if I asked where does a ranger keep all those spikes when he sets a barbed trap? Should we animate the ranger digging a hole and planting every stick for a one hour cast time? Or maybe a warrior should carry a giant 20 foot chest around with him so he can open it up swap out his fellblade for a dragon crest axe?

On this topic im more interested in realistic feedback. For all we know, the next chapter of guildwars might have colonial guns or even dwarven mechanized fighting machines. I don't think it's fair to cap these ideas just because guild wars started as a medieval adventure and NEEDS to remain that way. We are talking about expansion into new realms, with new ideas and concepts. Look at cantha, the entire asian theme offsets the original guild wars. Guns, machines, ANYTHING can be a possibility. The mecha forge boss proves that.

Anyway I'm more interested to hear on the classes' interaction with the game's set engine. How the skills of this conceptual class would meld and conflict with the existing classes in terms of balance and originality. How might setting turrets affect the flow of holding the flag stand in GvG. How would setting bombs and spiking bombing runs affect the metagame? Would an engineer be fun to play?

With appearances and descriptions, the turrets and cannons can always be modifyed to fit the scheme of the game. They can be made with older designs that resemble sorrows machinery.

I'm just trying to keep this all from becoming derailed into a conflict over what "Theme" guildwars should be. That is not whats being discussed here.

lyra_song · Jun 02, 2006, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Ill be evil.

What about the ritualist?

The ritualist drops spirits that function sort of like turrets or stationary weapons already. Not to mention they carry jars with certain effects.

I dont see the effects of your skills as being possible new ritualist skills, as opposed to a completely new profession.

-------

Being good.

I like it a lot. Its well written and the it CAN fit in the game. An engineer would definitely be a welcome addition to the game.

Lordhelmos · Jun 02, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

I don't know if it's how you already imagined them to look, but if the turrets were only around knee high it would make sense to be able to carry around the parts to make them in the middle of battle, and it wouldn't seem like it should take nearly as long to make. It'd also explain why they have so few shots.

Also, the turrets could stay there to be dismantled after being destroyed, and you could add a "reload" skill for turrets.

I thought about this idea for a moment, but if that were the case, having a ton of empty turrets on the field you would need to reload would be a pain. Its better to have him scrap after being used up and have the materials return to you so you can build other things. Reloading is neat but would mess up the engineer's balance of material management.

Rikimaru · Jun 02, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

It is pretty good. When I think of a GW Engineer, I think of a character running around tossing a bunch of little bombs everywhere. But that's kindof what this is. I think you should add more grenade-style bombs that you throw at enemies.

Rikimaru · Jun 02, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

I thought about this idea for a moment, but if that were the case, having a ton of empty turrets on the field you would need to reload would be a pain. Its better to have him scrap after being used up and have the materials return to you so you can build other things. Reloading is neat but would mess up the engineer's balance of material management.

That's not hard to get around. Obviously reloading a turret would take up much less materials than building a new one. Also, they still have the choice of dismantling the turrets if they need to.

-Edit- Oh wait.. then the materials are gone forever...

Lordhelmos · Jun 02, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Ill be evil.

What about the ritualist?

The ritualist drops spirits that function sort of like turrets or stationary weapons already. Not to mention they carry jars with certain effects.

I dont see the effects of your skills as being possible new ritualist skills, as opposed to a completely new profession.

-------

Being good.

I like it a lot. Its well written and the it CAN fit in the game. An engineer would definitely be a welcome addition to the game.

Thinking about this one, the ritualist spirits cannot be manned by allies and have their targets chosen by players. Turrets like the Iron Plated Cannon offer a defense bonus to the user as well. It would be cool to have people on turrets shooting down ritualist spirits in a battle to control territory. Also ritualist spirits spawned near a nest of turrets can lead to no man's land and clustered projectile battles that would be interesting. Then an ele comes along and drops a meteor shower into the fray, thanking god he now has a purpose for that build :P

Lordhelmos · Jun 02, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

It is pretty good. When I think of a GW Engineer, I think of a character running around tossing a bunch of little bombs everywhere. But that's kindof what this is. I think you should add more grenade-style bombs that you throw at enemies.

True, but eles already do that with fireballs and ranger have ignite arrows. I had to make the system of laying bombs and the engineers niche different from all of the other classes. Hence the spawning and allies being able to carry bombs idea. The current system I use would implement more strategy and teamwork than simply tossing bombs into mobs like eles throw fireballs and rodgort's

NukeFishy · Jun 05, 2006, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherGilburt

It wouldn't work with the guild wars theme. I really don't want to see guns and bombs placed in guild wars. Bombbs might work but defenatly not turrets.

This looks over powered. Has tons of massive AoE. It increases speed, deals AoE damage(bombs), buffs armor, heals, places turrets, evades and blocks, and deals high non-AoE damage. It can do about every thing. I'm afraid this would be quite over powered. Maybe if it did a little less. Take away some of the abilities such as healing, armor buffs, evades and blocks, and maybe speed inceases as they don't have anything to do with engineers. For the most part, its a little like a over powered elementalist.

Brother Gilburt

I have to Agree with gilburt

NukeFishy

Imp · Jun 05, 2006, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Ill be evil.

What about the ritualist?

The ritualist drops spirits that function sort of like turrets or stationary weapons already. Not to mention they carry jars with certain effects.

I dont see the effects of your skills as being possible new ritualist skills, as opposed to a completely new profession.

Was going to say the same thing, I have heard alot of people relating the ritualist to the engineer in TFC

Im Perfect U Aint · Jun 05, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

/signed
that would b halarious....i could see ppl going mass engineers and a monk or 2 in gvg
btw very well thought out

Plushie Penguin · Jun 29, 2006, 03:20 AM // 03:20

even though the material thing is there to help keep the class from destroying everything, it would make it crap after you run out from bombs, maybe a regen of 1 point every 10 or something seconds, it would keep them out of combat for a bit

Prince Zyphr · Jun 29, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Sorry to be blunt, but unless Guild Wars goes through a major technological evolution in 6 months I highly doubt will be seeing anything remotely close to the general idea of "Mechical" characters.--Now that the asshole part of my writing is complete we may proceed--. The proposed "Engineer" class is way too modern to be apart of the Guild Wars universe. Sure we have drawven kegs --similar to a mini-bomb-- but those don't even damage enemies and are only used for blowing up blockades in missions. A bomb/gun/explosives type class would be too overpowering to be thrusted into the game. Basically if bombs and grenades are put into the game then that means guns are coming too. And to be basic Guns+Guild Wars= Good bye Ranger. Even though I admire your effort and time put into your idea and the post to tell the Guild Wars fanbase/players of your idea, but sorry its pretty much out of the question.

--Now if I am corrected and GW is technologically evolved then may God smite me (Somethign gentle though like Banish , please

) --