Curse

Folken ~oOo~ · Aug 22, 2007, 11:22 AM // 11:22

/not signed

I dont want to see GW run around Titles as main topic in PvE.
I already hate the fact about factions points, sun's points and soon others GWEN titles on whose depends skills !!!
I have 10 characters max (every skills, 15k armor and every towns on the 3 maps) on 2 different accounts : do you think i have a big showy title as a reward for that ? NO ! so i dont like it ...
What i wanted basically was a sharable title by accounts and not only by char. BTW, accounts can not still be merged. :'(
Yeah, good commercial idea for ANet : i will have to buy 2 game GWEN as i did for Faction and Nightfall ... and they still dont want me to have my 2 accounts merged. Xx

D E C E P T I V E · Aug 23, 2007, 02:41 PM // 14:41

/not signed

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Bloodstone

To be honest I don't like this idea whole lot. Getting an armour piece as a reward for completing a series of quests or missions? sure. Having to grind out a max title - No thanks.

I think titles should be there as a small reward for people willing to put in the time to achieve them. They should not be a pre-requisite to getting actual items in the game.

The overall cost of an ascended armour set is enough of a barrier to the average player as is, why add yet another obstacle to obtaining nice armour? Isn't this game supposed to be about the fun and not grinding?

On a little aside - I think A-Net knew what they were getting into when they added titles to the game. A certain percentage of the hardcore GW players wanted something to show for the hours they were putting into the game, titles gave them that. However they must also know that offering more than a trivial reward for time spent could be a slippery slope - the more they start to reward time spent, the more people will demand it, and the more it slides towards being a bog-standard MMORPG.

I completely agree with you and want to add some things. One of the best things about GW was that it made it possible for people that are not (and do not have the time to be) "hardcore" gamers to get into MMORPG's without lacking any of the depth that other MMORPGs have and without being bogged down like other MMORPGs. GW still required a good amount of dedication to play. The level at which skills become maxxed can be obtained by everyone after a reasonable amount of time and I hope this is maintained in GW2 even if the level cap is not. For nearly 2 years GW was the only game I played because it does require alot of time to develop your characters and that was ok because its the only game I wanted to play.

The game is now taking a new direction because of the influence of the title system which is actually limiting its playability to those that are not "hardcore gamers" which has really turned me off and I think it will turn alot of other casual gamers off as well, which are probably the major majority of people that play the game. Shortly after the release eluding to the importance of titles in EOTN and GW2 alot of my friends played and worked on titles but after a while we simply got sick of the grind of it and most of my friends stopped playing, and werent on as much. I continued to play for sometime after, but recently have turned to other games to play in my spare time, although I do miss GW and what it used to be.

Rewarding the "hardcore players" who have the time to play this game for 8hrs a day or more is ok, but the reward should not be with special skills or items that other cannot obtained by anyone in the game in a reasonable amount of time. Its hard enough to get the 15K armor now, and it is a major factor for playing and developing your characters. Special emotes or benefits related to the title someway ingame should be enough of a reward. In some cases the emotes and titles themselves have already made the game so you can only play it if you are a "hardcore gamer" and it shouldnt be like that. Its not you you need to spend a gazillion hours playing in order to understand any HA team concept, or to be able to play effectively in certain PVE areas. In HA you cant even really play their unless you are rank 6 or higher unless you want to spend more time looking for a group than you actually do playing the game. On top of that you will be lucky if that group stays together for more than a single round. With all the emphasis being placed on titles this is going to extend into the PVE world as well. Groups are now starting to form in PVE areas requiring certain LB ranks, and I have seen people in AB areas requiring Luxon or Kurzick Ranks.

Like I said, I have been turned off of guildwars for a while now and havent really looked into what it takes to max out the luxon/kurzick skills in detail and dont know how reasonable it is to max these skills out, but I definitely agree with you that the titles themselves are kind of a slippery slope and any rewards beyond say the a title with maybe an emote and some useful benefit like the treasure hunter track has is definitely a very slippery slope.

I already pre ordered EOTN and will play it because it will bring GW, probably my top favorite game of alltime to an end. However if what I can do and obtain in GW2 is going to depend on me being a "hardcore gamer" and grinding out titles I and probably alot of people like me will not be buying it.

Kazamafury · Aug 23, 2007, 02:57 PM // 14:57

I don't understand why those saying "more grinding for armor, nt!" As the OP mentioned, it's not a necessity. Just like FoW armor. If you earned it, good for you but you did grind for it, money wise. Just not for a title. Come about the same thing. Then there was torment weapons which also can be considered a grind should you earn the respective gemstones.

Those people saying that the game is supposed to be fun and not grinding, it still is, again, you don't HAVE to get the armor. Again, just like FoW armor and torment items. I don't have either and I am still having fun. If you feel you HAVE to get the items, well then, that's another issue altogether.

And the OP just suggested certain max titles, if this was implemented, who knows which titles would be used. Say it was Max Sunspear title, you can earn an epic sunspear armor. I think that would be neat. Can earn a somewhat 'unique' armor in a fraction time than a FoW one.

This would also encourage keeping the favor of the gods where some people are worried at some point, there will never ever be favor. Which I doubt entirely but that's another issue.

Bottom line, I think it's nice that GW offers something special to the more hardcore players, somewhere in between FoW and regular armor. I feel this would be the case. If you feel this is a grind, then simply don't purchase it. What's the problem? I am happy with the armor I am using just fine. The titles in question should definitely be something around the caliber of Legendary Guardian or Lightbringer than say R12 HA or R12 Kurzick/Luxon. Basically attainable by anyone with a certain amount of time spent, just not TOO much. Speaking of Legendary Guardian, I think it would be a good idea since it would promote more HM mission groups, I personally had trouble finding them. edit: Well I think some bias came to the last point. I was thinking why not have various levels of epic armor. Honestly, why not have a R12 Kurzick/Luxon epic armor? Just because I will never spend that much time on it doesn't mean others can't be rewarded for it. Yes they have the allegiance skills instead but I am mainly talking about the titles in respect to the time it requires to achieve it.

/signed

edit: Other points should be brought up. Those who feel they need to acquire everything just because it's available.
What about minis? The grawl for example. Are you going to complain you paid the game to have fun than to have to attend a convention? Or have to be 100k+x ectos for it? Mini Ghostly, are you going to complain you didn't get all of the items in the game because you don't PvP or HA?

You didn't purchase the preorder, so you don't have access to the bonus items. Do you HAVE to have those items?

Apply this to the epic armor idea. It's not like you won't get a high end armor (in terms of stats).

D E C E P T I V E · Aug 23, 2007, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazamafury

I don't understand why those saying "more grinding for armor, nt!"

We are saying this because the post is implying a additional grind for armor, a title grind. Armor is as you say already a grind, its a gold and materials grind which can be obtained doing anything you want and not just doing 1 thing like ABing all day.

I could somewhat agree to making armor a title grind if the gold and material grind were eliminated, but think that this would probably make the game too repetitive and redundant. This would also probably segregate the gaming community into doing 1 thing because armor is the major factor for the vast majority of PvE players.

Also, mini pets have ne effect on the game and i wouldnt object to mini pets as a reward for titles. Armor is considered by most people to be an extension of their character and very important in terms of character development.

Folken ~oOo~ · Aug 23, 2007, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Seing a lot of people with different armors and colours is fun.

I dont want to see everybody black or white with the same armor design cuz you know ... "this one is better cuz it costs a lot more *proud*" ...

I prefer to see people with designs they like the best showing somewhat their taste.

United of B..... *woops sorry*

Mangione · Aug 23, 2007, 03:55 PM // 15:55

I have no FOW armor for any character since I don't like the grind associated with it, and I don't feel the need for such armor.
If someday I should change my mind, the armor is there, I could grind for materials and money and take it.

I like the OP's idea.
Even if I haven't got the required titles to get the armor, the armor will be there (it's just a different skin in the end, not more powerful or something that will put out the casual gamer from the scene), and by grinding the titles (as one grinds for a FOW) you can take it.

So, more opportunities, more different skins, more content...
Even if it is there, it doesn't meen that you have to take everything the designers put into the game.

So I ask myself:
- is this thing affecting my gameplay? No
- will I be forced to do it? No
- will it be something enjoyable by other players, even if I don't care about it or I havent' got the time and dedication needed to get it? Yes

GW will still be casual-player oriented. Max armor/max weapons/everything unlockable is still there.

So... even if I don't care about such kind of armor, or I won't be able to get it :

/signed

I don't understand people that say "I don't want to spend X hours doing the titles, so don't add this kind of armor"... With the same reasoning someone could say "I don't want to spend X hours farming for ectos and shards, so remove FOW armor"...

Arthas-90 · Aug 23, 2007, 04:12 PM // 16:12

/signed
This is very good suggestion in my opinion, because people who spent weekes, months, years for titles should have some special in GW. People who farming moneys for Obsidian Armor have a nice thing. Why title farmers shouldn't get something like this.

6am3 Fana71c · Aug 23, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

What Fish is trying to say in all those mile-long posts is this: "Oh noez, too many people have FoW armor and it's not elite anymore, plz add some uber elite epic armor which I can get straight away since I allready have titles, so my e-peen is a bit longer. Kktnxbai"
So why not, /signed, if that is gonna make you feel more important. Personaly, I don't give a flying fu*k.

Vahn Roi · Aug 23, 2007, 05:42 PM // 17:42

"Too many people have FoW"

With 4 million copies sold I'm not surprised, especially considering many people like myself have been with the series for over 2 years now. Furthermore, how does it effect you in the least? If you're one of those people who's had FoW since prophecies you still have that prestige of being one of the first handful of people to get it so early and to have it for so long. Or are you so insecure that you have to have some way to show other people your personal achievements for them to have any worth?

Even if an armor set were introduced under the suggested conditions, you would still see it fairly often in my opinion as many people have had nothing to do BUT farm titles for the last 6 months.

Zinger314 · Aug 23, 2007, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Will never happen, although it's a proper idea.

ArenaNet doesn't have the resources to make 20 sets of armor (10 professions + 2 genders) for a title which few people will get.

zamial · Aug 23, 2007, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Since the overwhelming 50/50 split on this I won't sign it as is.The argument is tie the armor to a title which is mostly a pve improvment.(btw I am a pve player)Personally I think if an "epic armor" is to implemented it should be tied to exp not to titles. I also would like to add, that it shouldn't be armor but an "aura" like a boss of the approprite class. We all have our favy charecters to play,and this is somthing that the "hard core" players in both pve and pvp can get behind. Set the bar really high like 10 million or so, this way you also are not "giving" this away to everyone and you dont need to own all the campaigns to get it. Fow armor used to be prestegious but is now common.I would love to have a visible way to show that this is my primary charecter and that im not an e-bay, just turned level 20, NOOB.

If this is the point then cool if not I must be misunderstanding the reason to add in "epic armor"........

Kool Pajamas · Aug 23, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by D E C E P T I V E

We are saying this because the post is implying a additional grind for armor, a title grind. Armor is as you say already a grind, its a gold and materials grind which can be obtained doing anything you want and not just doing 1 thing like ABing all day.

I could somewhat agree to making armor a title grind if the gold and material grind were eliminated, but think that this would probably make the game too repetitive and redundant. This would also probably segregate the gaming community into doing 1 thing because armor is the major factor for the vast majority of PvE players.

Also, mini pets have ne effect on the game and i wouldnt object to mini pets as a reward for titles. Armor is considered by most people to be an extension of their character and very important in terms of character development.

Armor has NO effect on the game. All level 20 armor has the same stats available. Having armor that costs 5k (1k each piece) + materials or 75k+ materials makes no difference. If you don't want to get the max title then get the 5k armor. It has no affect on the game.

freekedoutfish · Aug 23, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6am3 Fana71c

What Fish is trying to say in all those mile-long posts is this: "Oh noez, too many people have FoW armor and it's not elite anymore, plz add some uber elite epic armor which I can get straight away since I allready have titles, so my e-peen is a bit longer. Kktnxbai"
So why not, /signed, if that is gonna make you feel more important. Personaly, I don't give a flying fu*k.

Personally I wasnt asking for this to look or feel important (well not 100%), I was suggesting this because (as you have quoted) alot of people have the FOW armor and the reason (aside from effort) is that currently all armor can be very easily bought with enough gold.

If you are already an oober rich player, with stacks of ectos and shards, its not going to require any effort to role a new character and buy them FOW armor in about a day.

Having one set of armor that requires your character to have (for instance) Legendary Gaurdian maxed out, means this armor actually does require effort everytime to unlock.

Its not just a case of the rich players rolling a new player, going to the crafter and making nice flashy elite sets.

Even if you scrapped the need for gold and materials and ONLY required the max title, I wouldnt complain. But the main point of this idea is to add armor that requires genuine effort by that character.

Plus all existing armors have no real eliteness to them. You do purely just need enough gold and materials and you can get ANY armor. Even FOW if you put enough time and grind into it.

The armor I suggest would also be available on an equal footing to ALL players. Even the rich would have to get off their arses and put some effort in.

But as Ive said 100 times now, we have lots of other max sets available if you didnt want it and no one is forcing you. I cant help but the get the impression all the /notsigned replies are from people who have more money then they can handle, and they just dont like the idea of being made to put some actual effort in to unlock it.

But as others have said, FOW armor could be looked at as a grind. Buying and farming gold + ectos + shards isnt my idea of fun and I consider it a grind. Even luxon and vabbian armor is a grind to get rare materials. But we dont winge when you cant get that.

Effendi Westland · Aug 23, 2007, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Yes, so say no to grind and put an armor crafter behind elite missions!

and btw, I do not have more money then I can handle, I'm probably poorer then you.

Fitz Rinley · Aug 23, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

I am opposed to the titles being used this way simply because they are too difficult to get. They take too much time and cost too much gold - directly or indirectly.

/not signed

D E C E P T I V E · Aug 23, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

all armor can be very easily bought with enough gold.

If you are already an oober rich player, with stacks of ectos and shards, its not going to require any effort to role a new character and buy them FOW armor in about a day.

Having one set of armor that requires your character to have (for instance) Legendary Gaurdian maxed out, means this armor actually does require effort everytime to unlock.

Its not just a case of the rich players rolling a new player, going to the crafter and making nice flashy elite sets.

Even if you scrapped the need for gold and materials and ONLY required the max title, I wouldnt complain. But the main point of this idea is to add armor that requires genuine effort by that character.

Plus all existing armors have no real eliteness to them. You do purely just need enough gold and materials and you can get ANY armor. Even FOW if you put enough time and grind into it.

The armor I suggest would also be available on an equal footing to ALL players. Even the rich would have to get off their arses and put some effort in.

But as Ive said 100 times now, we have lots of other max sets available if you didnt want it and no one is forcing you. I cant help but the get the impression all the /notsigned replies are from people who have more money then they can handle, and they just dont like the idea of being made to put some actual effort in to unlock it.

But as others have said, FOW armor could be looked at as a grind. Buying and farming gold + ectos + shards isnt my idea of fun and I consider it a grind. Even luxon and vabbian armor is a grind to get rare materials. But we dont winge when you cant get that.

First off, I do want to say that im not completely against you but I also have some points that I want to make after this. If this is just 1 set of armor to fall into the same class as FOW armor I could agree, as long as other elite armors including FOW are still available through buying them. Honestly if this is just getting the Legendary Title or whatever I think it would actually require less time and effort than it does to truly earn FOW armor, and Im working on that anyway, but I am definitely against the title grind + gold and materials grind in it. I dont think you should have to fall into the hardcore category to obtain the elite things in the game and adding to the material grind with a title grind as well would do that. I would rather see the game as more dependant on your skills and how well you use your brain in the game to make it easier to make your achievements. Also if this armor was made, I would like to see the armor itself or an improved version of it to be able to be passed on into GW2. Maybe the stats would have to level with the character to reach the maximal level, but that seems reasonable, and it would provide a benefit to doing all of this stuff because we all know that GW is coming to an end and we are all going to have to start over. Passing on our items at least wouldnt make it seem like such a total loss, especially if you have truly earned high end things liek FOW armor. I just finally acquired the materials to get my FOW armor around this past December or so, and believe me it is an acheivement that I worked to get for nearly 2 years.

I dont like that you think everyone in this game that has a little bit of gold in their storage has done nothing to earn it. I have always liked that you can use a high level character to obtain things to help out your newer characters in guildwars, and I dont think there is anything wrong with that, and it is work. This game would really be a grind if you had to earn nearly 100k with each character to get your armor. There are smart ways to make gold in the game and that is ok. You are making it sound like people that have acquired alot of gold in the game have done nothing to earn it, which is wrong. The only case that this is true in is in the case that they ebayed their gold, and that is what needs to fixed. Making the game bot proof would fix it, and solve the problem of superhigh prices in the economy.

Just because FOW armor is becoming more common does not mean its not elite. The game has been around for over 2 years and people have been working on it a long time. The longer that the people that want it have to get it, the more people you will see with it. Also prices of ecto and shards have come down. I remember trapping in UW with my first character getting ecto when it was selling to the trader for like 14-17k or so. It was not the most efficient way to get it, but as time went on I learned more.

Anyway my point is, this new armor would be no different, it would be more common after a period of time. The only difference would be that ebaying gold could not contribute to this armor. I think that ebaying gold is done mainly through bots, and that the bots are what should be fixed.

/signed under the following conditions
1 set of elite armor the way describe in the same class as FOW and acquired through the max HM mission title I can agree with as long as other forms of elite armor of the same class like FOW and 15K ascended are available through material as well.

freekedoutfish · Aug 24, 2007, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by D E C E P T I V E

I dont think you should have to fall into the hardcore category to obtain the elite things in the game and adding to the material grind with a title grind as well would do that.

There seems to be a miss-conception that I'm a hardcore player and/or that anyone aiming for Legendary Guardian is a hardcore player.

I dont personally concider myself hardcore and I dont concider LG a hardcore title. Hard Mode missions arent that hard, they they require hardcore players to complete them.

You just require good players and alot of patience.

I also personally feel to achieve protector and then guardian should be a natural progression for most players. If you play a FPS like Halo you would do it on normal first and then replay it on a harder setting without thinking, because you want a better challenge.

I look at LG and hard mode in the same respect. Its a natural progession to move into hard mode once you have protector and its not isolate to just hardcore players.

I would also have expected that any self-respecting player who loves PvE would want to achieve LG because its fundimentally the highest achievement you can gain in terms of PvE.

I could be wrong and obviously some people consider LG a grind and have no want for it. But my question to them would be "why do you play PvE if you have no want to get protector and guardian?".

This is why I cant agree or accept this idea of maxing LG a grind or having it mean this armor is only for hardcore players. Playing hardmode missions is alot easier and more accessible then playing most of the elite zones, and yet we have FOW armor which can only be accessed inside an elite zone.

Yet people are perfectly willing (including non-hardcore players) to spend hours grinding ectos, shards and piles of gold to get FOW armor. Why? Because it gives you some kind of advantage, or because its nice looking or because you want to feel l33t? I couldnt care.

But the point is that if people are willing to strive for FOW armor by going through hours of grinding by doing nothing more then farming or trading and a few easy quests, then why not have an armor set that actually requires you complete missions in hard mode?

What at the minute do we have a reward for completeing the entire game in hard mode? Nothing!

If this was a FPS and you completed it in hard mode you would normally recieve some kind of reward for doing it in a harder setting. Thats one failing of hard mode, is the lack of reward other then slightly better drops.

Also what about the weapons in DOA which require rare drops from that elite zone? Those are completely out of reach of me, because I dont have the time to farm those rare material drops. So I could complain that those are unfairly out of reach, but I dont.

The fact is that we already have stuff ingame that could be concidered purely for hardcore players like FOW armor, DOA weapons, Hero normal and elite armor. All of those require endless hours of grinding or playing through hard elite zones.

All of which are out of reach of me personally because I dont enjoy elite zones, but do you see me saying "well i dont like elite zones, so its not fair I cant get those items or weapons, ragh ragh ragh"! No you dont.

I accept that things exist that I will never get my hands on, but I dont mind because they wont improve my gameplay. They are purely athetic!

Masterr · Aug 24, 2007, 02:20 PM // 14:20

no way, stop making this a generic grinding game.

Gucio · Aug 24, 2007, 02:36 PM // 14:36

/notsigned

Grinding is evil.

freekedoutfish · Aug 24, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterr

no way, stop making this a generic grinding game.

Well dunno if you noticed, but GWEN has added armor that requires you to max certain titles!!!