Curse

Sniper22 · Sep 05, 2007, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Ok, Anet really needs to encourage the experienced pvpers to teach the new/unexperienced players how to play. Its so hard and stressful for the new guy to get up their in ha rank. Usually they get to r3+ by doing iway or some other noob build because none of the other groups will let them in. The new players also dont know the ha or gvg builds either and pretty much they can't even get in any good guilds because they dont have the titles for it (which they can't get unless they iway to r6...)

So here is what I suggest to encourage people to share their pvp knowledge

Create a teacher rank for guilds. The guild leader and officers can choose people or theirselves to be teachers. Teachers will be assigned to new guild members and they will be responsible for teaching them how to play and help them get their ranks up through doing HA with the guild and also GvG. Teachers can only teach students who are 3 ranks below them in HA or 1 rank below them in gvg ranks (or something around there).

Benefits from teaching new players (the good part for the teachers

)

For each gvg/ha rank the student gains, the guild recieves money that can be spent on their guild hall (or some other guild related thing).

There will be a title track for teachers named something like this "Teacher of Noobs". Each time one of their students gains fame or champion points from gvg, there title goes up a certain amount. Each new rank increases their max balthazar faction.

Teachers will also be rewarded for each HA/GvG rank that their students gained. This reward could be something like faction, pvp weapon and armor skins, gold, and other things.

So what do u guys think? I've been playing this game for 27 months and only have r4 cause i can't get into any groups or it just takes forever to find a group for my rank. Please dont say "create your own noob group" or "play iway noob".

God Apprentice · Sep 05, 2007, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Something similar to this was mentioned 1 1/2 years ago. It was shot down, for obvious reasons.

When I was unranked I made my own groups. Why can't you?

Yichi · Sep 05, 2007, 11:14 PM // 23:14

ok no one taught or helped those of us who have the rank/GVG expierence that youre suggesting that they train people for. We earned it ourselves. How hard is it for newer players to do the same?

Nightmare_Pwner · Sep 06, 2007, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Lol lol just Lol. Quite alot of Negitive Feedback on that there.

First off I dont Agree with half of your Ideas but the main Concept of Having some way for Brand Spankin new people to Get into GvG/Ha by having a system inplace that can Teach them.

And what the Second or Third Guy said

"well We all learned by ourselves too so why cant you or w.e"

What I have to say to Answers like that Well.

Back in the Day EVERYONE Was a NOOB There Was NO Allrdy Set and Organized GvG and HA Builds NO One was BETTER then Anyone Else. EVERYONE was on the Same Playing Feild. So therefore As Everyone Played on the Same Playing Feild Builds/Tatics watever were Developed and Used. And THEN you Could Say there was People Better or Higher Up there. BUT Even at that Point the Majority of the People Who WERE Not Higher Up there Allrdy Had Easyer and Better Chances of "Getting Up there" But as All this Happened Fewer and Fewer People You could say where Noobs. And If we Jump Right up to Now Wev got a HUGE Majority of People That are those Ranked 7-12's and Those That are Not even Rank 1.

So to Say something Like "Learn to Play or Make your own Dam Group" and Not Teach Brank Spankin New people How to Play these PvP Modes Well thats just RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin Stuipd.

So if thats How it would Be then. I guess We could Imagion here a Big ass Grass Feild. On One Side we have a Group of 4 and on the Other Side we have a Group 4 And Each Person is givin say some Sort of Sniper Riffle. Now the One Group Of 4 Has Years of Exped Military Trained etc etc In using Sniper Rifles and the Other Group of 4 are Random People Picked up off the Street with No Gun Knowledge What so ever. These 2 "Teams" Fight to the Death..... Who do you Think is Going to Win? Exped Marksmen? or Random Brand Spakin Newbes to the Art of Marksmenship..... I dident Think so Either.

SO you might ask WtF does this have to do with guildswars HA/GVG well if you Dam well Think about it for a moment It has Much Relevents. If you Throw noobs into a group of 8 and pit them against another group of 8 that are Ranked 6+ Who the Hell is Going to Win? there you go.

SO REALLY Its almost Impossible to "Learn Yourself" or "Make a Group with Non Ranked Players" with No Exp in that PvP Mode at All.

SURE You can Watch Hours and Hours of Pro's Battle Videos or Look up the Commonly Used Top PvP HA/GVG Builds But then again That Doesent Really Give you Exps Does it?

SO Once again Its Very Hard to the Point where it is Impossible to DO these Modes Without any Exps or Training or Watever the Hell you Want to Call it. With the Majority of People Allrdy "Exped and Watnot" Well there you Go.

Sniper22 · Sep 06, 2007, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Lol see this is the comments that i hate getting. I mean WTH! You want guild wars to continue growing, right? You want the popularity of pvp to expand, right? Or maybe you guys just love owning r2 iway noobs and want to keep it that way? We don't need the... "I busted my butt of getting my rank up so all the new players need to do the same or quit" attitude.

I mean cmon. First its only to encourage people to help new players. If you don't wanna help, no problem. It would only make the game more enjoyable for everyone else. You didn't see many pve people complaining about green weapon and inscribable weapons in nightfall. Some people farmed for hours to get their perfect sword or whatever but we didn't see a huge list of people complaining about how easy it is to get perfect weapons now. This idea is to improve the game. We shouldn't support the qualities of the game that make it worse...

I think I was on the mmorpg.com forums and people were talking about which games are good for what qualities. People mostly said that GW was the best (subscription) free mmorpg out there, although one person complained about GW saying that they treat noobs poorly. And I'm starting to think that he's right. It seems like a lot of people don't even pay attention to noobs or they just don't want them to be any competition in pvp. I was trying to look for a guild an HA and said something like "looking for a ha/gvg guild, rank 4, been playing for 27 months" and this one random guy replies. "Only rank 4, lol you must suck if you're only r4 and have been playing for 27 months..." Cmon there has to be some people who care about the new players and want this game to grow.

But ya i just spit out ideas to help noobs up there :P BTW it was fun in the beginning for HA, we could just take out random skills and throw them into some sort of build heheh, but that fun seems to be gone now cause i can't find groups lol

Old memories :P

Nightmare_Pwner · Sep 06, 2007, 12:54 AM // 00:54

So you Sorta Agree with me hahaha YAY. Unless im Reading it Wrong.

Lol Nice Pic. Thats old tho anit REAL old

Sniper22 · Sep 06, 2007, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Ya heheh i agree with u. Even if u read the text in this "somewhat old" picture people don't really know what they are doing at this time. "Is that obelisk ours?" lol. And the party window isn't even organized, but we have 3 monks, 2 wammos, 2 eles, 1 minion master, we didn't need these specific builds as we do now.

Sniper22 · Sep 06, 2007, 06:46 PM // 18:46

But seriously, what do u guys think about a system that will give the new guys more exp in pvp. It doesn't have to be the system i posted, thats just an example

TheRaven · Sep 06, 2007, 07:30 PM // 19:30

I'd like to see something put in place, even if it's only player organized and not official from A-Net.

I'm currently struggling to break into HA. My guild isn't very interested in HA. They go about once a month and I go with them when I can. I made it to Rank 1 this way. I loved it and would love to go more often if I could just find groups.

I tried joining a pug once and that was a disaster. The leader was very unorganized. He took any random person in town that invited and the skill bars were total crap. I was the only person that even brought an elite. Needless to say, the Zaishen owned us.

I was going to sign up for a fame farming service just to get some experience in HA, but I didn't see any being offered anymore. I don't feel comfortable asking an R3+ group to let me in like a sticky I read here earlier suggested. I know I'm not good enough for that yet. I truly am a PvP noob. I will mess up. I need to learn before trying to convince ranked players that I'm good enough to join them. I suppose I'll go back to pug hunting, but that's tedious.

Many of you have said to just tough it out and work your way up like you did. That's just not possible nowadays. A year or 2 ago, everyone was new. It was much easier to find groups then.

Apprentice, you said to start your own group. I suppose that's a possibility, but I'm not much of a group leader. I don't feel that I have any business trying to lead an HA group yet. I think a leader should be able to assign each member their skillbars and explain how to use them properly. A leader should be able to call targets effectively and I know I'm not at that level.

Lacking all that, if there are 7 other people out here willing to form a team and make fools of ourselves while learning, count me in!

Vermilion · Sep 06, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

@TheRaven: You seem to be inexperienced in PvP in general, in which case I'd suggest arenas, etc, since HA is that much harder when you lack the basics.

Also, not everyone who managed to get ranked started when the game was new, so please stop bringing that up.

Nightmare_Pwner · Sep 06, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Ya Ravan You seem Inexped but Thats ok we all Learn And we Go but its Harder now adays. And Ya Start With Arenas and Even Zashien lol. I got there just for a quick Faction Farm but Testing a Few Team Builds is good their. Dont even Bother with RA anymore Go stirght to TA or Some AB or w.e

And Yes Its "Worth" Bringing up Lots And Lots and More Lots.

Even at our 1 Year point your Odds of Acutlly Learning yourself and Doing things etc etc with Random Pugs etc etc Were Still at a 50 50 % chance of Odds or w.e you want to call it. Up at our Current Time Frame Those Odds Have Dropped to the Point where its Below 10%. Speaking in Terms of Probability and Possibiliy its Possible That you Can Learn on your Own and that Not everyone whos Rank 6+ today started from the Beigning. But you have to take into consideration what I just said a Sentence Ago.

But yes Your more Probable to Lose today and Not Learn anything Without Pre Exp in the Area.

Sarevok Thordin · Sep 06, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

I'd like to see the PvP community start welcoming new people in but sadly they only see new people as crops for farming rank, rather than potential good competition.

So don't count on anything player done EVER, people aren't going to do it.

On the uphand, GWEN is using alot of PvP tactics on the mobs, in particular the Charr. Not very advanced but it does teach the importance of enchant stripping, pre-protting. That's the first step at least.

Sniper22 · Sep 07, 2007, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Although even still when u are starting to get how to play ha and pvp, your chances of finding or creating a decent group are low because you won't be able to get your rank up there for a long time (cause you cant get into any groups). IMO you don't learn anything in the noob groups at all. You play iway or heroway, not much there. If you are gonna learn some skills, you will have to play in a group with the good people. It's easy to find out what you are doing wrong if you are in a group with experienced people, cause the mistake would mess up the team, or the team will tell you. Being in the unexperienced groups doesn't help too much because chances are everyone is screwing up or doesn't know what they are doing fighting against the other team.

BTW the only real way people get to like r3-6 is by doing some noob iway or heroway. Cmon you see people saying "r3+ iway lf more". And then when those iway people get to r6 when they finally can join the good groups that don't do... they won't have a clue what to do because they have 0 exp.

We need to make pvp better for EVERYONE.

Punjabi · Sep 07, 2007, 03:46 AM // 03:46

I agree. People say we earned it you can too we had no help. I know what it is like to earn something and it feels bad to make something easyer for someone when you worked so hard to get so I do see that side. On the same book, when most of these r6+ people started HA was a place normal everyday players could go with a somewhat organized guild group or something and maybe not take halls and hold it but at least go in and spend a few hours of having fun.

Now you go in there to find a group as a inexperienced HA player and you wait for a few and see someone setting up an unranked group. Awsome, you join the group set the build, get on vent, and wait. And wait. And wait. For everyone to get on the vent, get coordinated, make some sort of game plan, set up builds. So finally you are all set up good to go. Enter battle, what happens...your team gets ran through by some r6+ group and you return to HA where half the team rage quits. So you wait some more. Team play is fun, setting builds and tweaking is fun but not when you don't stand a chance 3/4 of the time.

I am not going to sit here and contemplate solutions and fixes because there will never be a scratch free fix. But what I am saying is as of right now it is hard for a large numbers of players to get in and have fun with the current system and it's current status. It needs to be made more avalible to everyday players.

Nightmare_Pwner · Sep 07, 2007, 04:48 AM // 04:48

You have Points their. Im currently Rank 6 1/4

but It was done Way Back. And Even then It was not really hard to do. But I dont have a Problem with Showing Guildies or just Friends iv Met randomly How to do Things or how the Game Should be played Basicly. Even Iv been Helped in some Areas PvE Wise but I dont see how thats giving any Sort of Advantedge or Edge To new People Becuase we had to "figure" out most things our selves. Witch like 50% of the time we dident. But Then again You have some and you dont.

But Somehow I think ALL PvP Aspects Should be Easy to Pick up and Fast to Learn becuase thats what Guildwars is based upon, Great PvP thats Actully rewarding and Fun to do with Friends or Whomever.

Winterclaw · Sep 07, 2007, 05:34 AM // 05:34

How about a bonus to faction and HP for experienced people if they have new people in the group and can win 2-3 pvp matches? That might encourage experienced players to bring in new people to their groups. They've have more of a risk, but more reward as well.

Targren · Sep 07, 2007, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

ok no one taught or helped those of us who have the rank/GVG expierence that youre suggesting that they train people for. We earned it ourselves. How hard is it for newer players to do the same?

This is a sad and disappointing attitude from such an ostensibly "great community." If Newton, Avogadro, or Joule had that sort of thinking, who knows how crippled scientific advancement would have been? "I theorized the law of universal gravitation on my own, why should I pass this knowledge on?"

It's too bad for the newbies that ANet decided to tie PvP an d PvE together. Otherwise, we'd be able to just leave PvP to the elitists who value epeen over the opportunity to actually have a positive effect on another person (A good teacher is hard to find, and infinitely rewarded even if they're never paid).

I'll just stick to grinding out my 2K/day in the Zaishen Challenge, then, to get my hero skills, but I hope everyone remembers this attitude when the same people complain about the marginalization of the PvP aspect of GW.

Div · Sep 07, 2007, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

This is a sad and disappointing attitude from such an ostensibly "great community." If Newton, Avogadro, or Joule had that sort of thinking, who knows how crippled scientific advancement would have been? "I theorized the law of universal gravitation on my own, why should I pass this knowledge on?"

Actually you're quite wrong. Most of the big names are so into their research that they couldn't be bothered to train students from the start. A better comparison would be to ask how often would Einstein go and teach elementary students about his theories of physics. At best, he'd give talks to graduate students and work with fellow scientists. It's similar to how a r12 would occasionally help a r6 here and there, and mostly play with r9+. He would rarely go down to the r0 or r3 level and teach the basics there.

With that analogy, the r6 should be the ones teaching r0 and r3, then the r9's would help the r6's develop (the latter already happens to some extent).

Too many noobs are whining about how no one is willing to teach them. It's just like if some 3rd grader whined about how Einstein refuses to teach him special relativity when he doesn't even know mechanics.

So before pulling out big names, go back to school and study your facts.

Targren · Sep 07, 2007, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Actually you're quite wrong. Most of the big names are so into their research that they couldn't be bothered to train students from the start. A better comparison would be to ask how often would Einstein go and teach elementary students about his theories of physics. At best, he'd give talks to graduate students and work with fellow scientists. It's similar to how a r12 would occasionally help a r6 here and there, and mostly play with r9+. He would rarely go down to the r0 or r3 level and teach the basics there.

With that analogy, the r6 should be the ones teaching r0 and r3, then the r9's would help the r6's develop (the latter already happens to some extent).

Too many noobs are whining about how no one is willing to teach them. It's just like if some 3rd grader whined about how Einstein refuses to teach him special relativity when he doesn't even know mechanics.

So before pulling out big names, go back to school and study your facts.

Before nitpicking on minor points and ignoring the entire message, you might want to check your own facts. Avogadro became a High School teacher. All of them shared their work in some way.

The simple fact remains that the elitist attitude (comparing r12s to einstien and those who have never PvPed in this game to 3rd graders, for example...) does not do the GW PvP comminuty any credit. It gives credence to the claim that newcomers are treated poorly. There is a world of difference between stating 'I don't want to take my time to teach newcomers' and proclaiming 'I learned alone, so NO ONE should teach newcomers.' (Feel free to substitude the words 'nubs', 'lamers', or whatever, as you see necessary for translation.) The former could be apathy, lack of time, or general selfishness, but the latter is pure elitism and self-importance.

haggus71 · Sep 07, 2007, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Einstein was well known for teaching his theories at Princeton in his later years, and Stephen Hawking speaks regularly, sharing his theories with everyone through conferences, interviews, and publications(A Brief History of Time, ftw). Great minds know how to get their views across in simple terms.

I think sports is more applicable here, however. If you are a rookie on a team, they will have a veteran be your mentor. He will show you the ins and outs of the game, and, for example, in football, let you in on the difference between college and pro. The team does this because they know the time invested in orienting that player will make them better as a team.

Thing is, gaming culture, as with everything else today, isn't filled, for the most part, with altruistic people willing to help their fellow player. Most are c0ckbites who say stuff like, "I had to learn on my own. fvck him." Which is bullshit. Most people, when the game started, got where they are through help of a guild or fellow players. If you are lucky enough to get into a good guild, fine. They are few and far between, though.

Just remember: things might have been different if people were as much of an asshole to in the beginning as you are now.