Curse

D E C E P T I V E · Aug 30, 2007, 01:23 PM // 13:23

The mesmer has been my favorite character to play since prophecies was released, but this class has continually been nerfed to the point where its really becoming irritating to use them. Some nerfs were justified, others were not. Im really ticked that today I signed on played and found that shatter enchantment was nerfed mainly because of its use by ele me teams in HA. This is not the first time mesmer skills have been nerfed because of use by some other primary profession using them. Most of the nerfs to inspiration magic were because of by other primary classes which made them "too powerful" according to someone somwhere.

Mesmers skills for the most part do what mesmers are supposed to do. The class is not overpowered and probably by themselves are one of weakest classes in the game. Specific mesmer skills used effectively with a team strategy in mind is what makes mesmers strong, and thats what they were intended to be used for, so its sad to see these skills nerfed because of their use by other professions. So, to fix it...

Why not just tie the effectiveniss of skills that could be used in such a way to the fast casting attribute. Just add a description to these skills that says something like damage or energygain (whatever) is reduced by 25-75% with a fast casting attribute of 4 or less, which would make it impossible for non primary mesmers to get the total range of effect from the use of a mesmer skill.

Since there are several skills that have a 50%failure rate with certain attribute of 4 or less I think that this could be done. The whole reason that mesmers have been nerfed in this way is because the skills that really do what a mesmers are really good for are not tied to their primary attribute in the way that the skills that could be abused in such a way by other secondary professionson are tied to thier primary professions. Spell Breaker and Divine Favor (not to mention the healing bonus of every monk skill is tied to divine favor), or The Forms and Mysticism, etc. What makes mesmers great is in domination, inspiration, and illussion magic which is not really linked to thier primary attribute very effectively the way that other professions primary is. Energy storage is essential to eles, Strength to warriors, divine favor to monks, Soul Reaping to Necros, Critical Strikes to Assassins, etc. Fast Casting needs to have more of an overall effect on mesmer skills, and tied to mesmer skills in some way in general.

legion_rat · Aug 30, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

/signed and agreed. Not only for mesmers but some of the more abuse-laden skills through out the game. I love the mesmer proff but with all the nerfs I dont play one.

~the rat~

Hawkeye · Aug 30, 2007, 03:03 PM // 15:03

I agree. I've always been a fan of mesmers, because it is the best example of 'skilled' fighting. That is to say that if you're clever enough, you can deal large amounts of damage. It is less so for other classes. Elementalist nuker tries to max fire damage, and warriors try to take hits. The roles are fairly straightforward and hard to screw up. A mesmer build can be incredibly bad or incredibly good depending on the person who built it, which is part of what makes this game so great.

Mesmers are already unpopular picks to add to parties, so why nerf what's already nerfed? I say reward the clever. If you can think of something which works incredibly well, then you are a better player for it and should reap the benefits.

the Puppeteer · Aug 30, 2007, 03:53 PM // 15:53

/notsigned

Me/E - fast casting nuker
oh noes! the nasty mesmers are abusing our ele skills :O... /sarcasm

=DNC=Trucker · Aug 30, 2007, 04:01 PM // 16:01

What hapenned to shatter?

Aleta · Aug 30, 2007, 04:51 PM // 16:51

I agree. My mesmer is getting pretty dusty.

I used to play her as straight illusionist. Ever wonder why mesmer's get attacked first and why you hate mesmer enemies so bad?

It's to bad really. They are great support in any team.

But no one wants you.

tenshi_strife · Aug 30, 2007, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Puppeteer

/notsigned

Me/E - fast casting nuker
oh noes! the nasty mesmers are abusing our ele skills :O... /sarcasm

QFT lol dont touch our skills damn it >.>

jkyarr · Aug 30, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

/signed. No brainer. outright nerfing of skills because of their secondary use is a piss poor call to make. The OP provided a very viable way to nerf secondaries without nerfing the whole profession.

I very rarely manage to get into a group with my mesmer, but the other day I not only grouped for the Frost Gate mission, but out-survived my entire party and then soloed the rest of the mission and bonus! Some of the team members left before I finished out of boredom, but I'd burned my rez ring and I wasn't about to pack it in just cuz they were amateurs. Everyone who stayed put me in their friends list and said I could group with them again any time. They all seemed thoroughly impressed. Mesmers rule!

SotiCoto · Aug 30, 2007, 06:50 PM // 18:50

/notsigned

Just increase the casting time.

That will tie it into Fast Casting without having to fiddle the description.

Winterclaw · Aug 30, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

I'd make fast casting increase the recharge rate of mesmer skills, but that's just me.

To the OP: I wouldn't nerf all the skills to require you to have FC. I'd add some skills in FC to strengthen your other lines. For example, there could be an encantment that causes all your illusion degens to do extra AI damage every second.

Gargle Blaster · Aug 30, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Just increase the casting time.

That will tie it into Fast Casting without having to fiddle the description.

try playin a mesmer first before posting so you can contribute to a conversation.

--understand how fast casting works... let me explain... the 50% faster cast mod on caster weapons is better than mesmer fast casting.

Abedeus · Aug 30, 2007, 08:10 PM // 20:10

/signed
I use only few skills from my Mesmer. I even have 3 elite tomes and no good skills that are useful in PvE. And other thing, without MoR I just wand mobs, even if I have good damaging spells. Why? Monks just heal, warrior's have adrenaline, dervishes have mysticism, Elems have very good e-management, necro's... even after nerf they have a lot of nice skills, paragon's have almost full energy all the time, thanks to leadership. What we have? Faster cast, wow. And what, if it's capped on 50% and we use Halves Cast Time weapons/offhands? We gain almost no advantage over other classes :/

Kool Pajamas · Aug 30, 2007, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Puppeteer

/notsigned

Me/E - fast casting nuker
oh noes! the nasty mesmers are abusing our ele skills :O... /sarcasm

First of all, fast cast nuking has never been great.

Second, fast cast eles in general have been nerfed before. Ele attune was adjusted because of fast cast spikers.

Tying in fast casting to some mesmer skills would be a good way of making some skills do what they are intended without making it overpowered for other classes.

Sergeant of Marines · Aug 31, 2007, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

/signed
I use only few skills from my Mesmer. I even have 3 elite tomes and no good skills that are useful in PvE. And other thing, without MoR I just wand mobs, even if I have good damaging spells. Why? Monks just heal, warrior's have adrenaline, dervishes have mysticism, Elems have very good e-management, necro's... even after nerf they have a lot of nice skills, paragon's have almost full energy all the time, thanks to leadership. What we have? Faster cast, wow. And what, if it's capped on 50% and we use Halves Cast Time weapons/offhands? We gain almost no advantage over other classes :/

Let's See

Monk= Diverson, Mistrust, Cry of Frustration , Shame, Power Block=GG
Warrior= Ineptitude, Images of Remorse, Soothing Images, Clumsiness=GG
Dervish= See Warrior
Eles= See Monk

Not every Profession is going to be a Mesmer Secondary and Bring Hex Breaker now are they...

Abedeus · Aug 31, 2007, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Let's look at pve then.
Monk - Hmm... Blocking single monsters makes no sense, bosses are double-hard to interrupt, e-denial doesn't work, and CoF is espensive as hell.
Warrior - Inep + Clumsiness is the only good thing from Illusion. Still, it's only 10 seconds of blind. And there are condition-removers in pve, too.
Dervish - A lot of dervish monsters don't care if they hit - spells and Chilling Victory hits even if you don't.
Eles - See monk.
Mesmer is broken - They are useful in PvP, useless in PvE.
And the point is that mesmer skills are hit by the nerf bat too hard because of other classes. Reveal Hex/Inspired Hex? Monk's fault. Mantra of Recall? Monk's. Signet of Humility? Necro's. Spirit of Failure? Necro again. And don't let me start a discussion about mesmer ELITES, as there is a lot of skills that I wouldn't take even if they were normal skills.

Sergeant of Marines · Aug 31, 2007, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Let's look at pve then.
Monk - Hmm... Blocking single monsters makes no sense, bosses are double-hard to interrupt, e-denial doesn't work, and CoF is espensive as hell.
Warrior - Inep + Clumsiness is the only good thing from Illusion. Still, it's only 10 seconds of blind. And there are condition-removers in pve, too.
Dervish - A lot of dervish monsters don't care if they hit - spells and Chilling Victory hits even if you don't.
Eles - See monk.
Mesmer is broken - They are useful in PvP, useless in PvE.
And the point is that mesmer skills are hit by the nerf bat too hard because of other classes. Reveal Hex/Inspired Hex? Monk's fault. Mantra of Recall? Monk's. Signet of Humility? Necro's. Spirit of Failure? Necro again. And don't let me start a discussion about mesmer ELITES, as there is a lot of skills that I wouldn't take even if they were normal skills.

Then you have no idea on how to play the profession! Not flamming, just stating an observation. If you can't interupt a boss, then no need to complain about it.

Enko · Aug 31, 2007, 06:30 AM // 06:30

just wondering, what nerf to shatter enchantment are you talking about.

anyways, i'm having fun playing on my mesmer so while i agree some of the stuff seems a little underpowered, mesmers still do their role well.

Patrick Smit · Aug 31, 2007, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

try playin a mesmer first before posting so you can contribute to a conversation.

--understand how fast casting works... let me explain... the 50% faster cast mod on caster weapons is better than mesmer fast casting.

There is no such mod that makes u cast 50% faster all times!

You have a maximum of 4% at 25% Cast time, 36% at 50% cast time and the remaining 60% at normal cast time. IMO the mods aint really better (nor much worse), FC lets you CAST all spells near 50% faster if pumped up high enough. The mods make it however more tricky to interrupt you due unpredictable cast times. But fast casting should only be needed if u use a skill like MoR or u dump remaining points in there.

Torino Cowell · Aug 31, 2007, 06:41 AM // 06:41

shouldn't this be inside the riverside inn? this isn't exactly the next big idea for an in game event or profession etc .

Mesmers can be good if played correctly , however people generally turn away from them to elementalists etc . mesmer is generally used as a secondrary profession but people shouldn't call the profession rubbish before they've even played it . they may be suprised how good a mesmer can be

Abedeus · Aug 31, 2007, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Okay, interrupt 1/2 Orison of Healing or, better one, Dismiss Condition with 0,375 cast time ~~ Did you forgot that bosses in F and NF have halved cast time of skills?
And did you noticed one thing? Monks always have same builds in all missions (like I did Ice Caves of Sorrow to Abaddon's Mouth without changing my build with monk), Warrior's dont need to change neither... I think that only Mesmers must make a choice - Be good interrupter or be good damage dealer. I mean, because of all nerfs Mesmer's ARE weaker compared to other proffesions. Why? Because our skills are better on other characters then on a mesmer. And you gave few examples of how mesmer is good - Cool, but you can't bring 10 or 12 skills. A mesmer can be effective only versus one type of enemy - melee or caster. All other characters can be effectve versus ALL enemies.
And I think he was talking about Drain Enchantment, which must have higher Inspiration to be worth it's cost.