Curse

Isileth · Sep 27, 2007, 09:29 PM // 21:29

So if they took away heroes people would have to spend even more time as they couldnt patch together a team using them.

Those that currently use h/h wouldnt suddenly start pugging. They would just run henchies.

lyra_song · Sep 27, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

No more heroes. No less heroes. 3 is fine.

Adding more heroes will turn this into a Real Time Strategy Game. I signed up for Guild Wars, not Starcraft/Command and Conquer. If i want to set waypoints for a ton of characters, ill go insert my C&C disc or reinstall Starcraft.

Can you imagine setting up 7 waypoints and micromanaging healing + damage characters while trying to target enemies in Guild Wars?

Instead of asking for less heroes or more heroes, how about just improving the henchmen.

iridescentfyre · Sep 27, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Did Guru really need another "I can't find a group so Anet should force them to group with me!" thread?

Before heroes, I PvE'ed with henchmen. If heroes were gone tomorrow, I'd revert to PvE'ing with henchmen. They still have huge benefits over most groups of human players. Thus Heroes are not the reason we aren't grouping. Other players are the reason. If the OP wants to group with players that's fine, more power to him, but the rest of us want to actually accomplish something inside of an hours' time in-game. Don't blame heroes for killing off the PUG group, because we've been trying to figure out alternatives since beta.

Isileth · Sep 27, 2007, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Lyra you wouldnt have to play with 7 though. So if you dont want to manage 7, you dont have to. You could take however many players or heroes you wanted.
Thats the key point, you could play however you wanted. All options would be open to everyone.

..L.. · Sep 27, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Since pugging is already dead they might aswell deliver the final blow and put in 7 heroes at least il enjoy that more then h/h with h/h i just throw myself from mob to mob not caring how many times i die or whatsoever it doesnt matter anyway, with 7 heroes you can at least make some kind of team build, though i would still prefer pugs they probally wont come back.

lyra_song · Sep 27, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Lyra you wouldnt have to play with 7 though. So if you dont want to manage 7, you dont have to. You could take however many players or heroes you wanted.
Thats the key point, you could play however you wanted. All options would be open to everyone.

"playing however you wanted", Its a bullshit line that gets parroted over and over.

You can petition and demand Anet to add more freedom in the game like....i dunno....free armors for everyone, 100 skills in your skill bar, UAX for new characters, add guns, add permanent mounts, remove the armor requirement so all classes can wear any armor, etc.

I can come up with countless ideas on how to make the game more free and give more options to everyone.

However...you can only play within the limitations that the design can allow and which options the designers choose.

Im not even talking about being forced to pug or quality of the henchmen.

3 heroes is a good balance with the interface design and usability. Do you even know what 7 heroes will look like? Are you even thinking of the technical limitations on one player's screen???

Look at all that clutter.

Isileth · Sep 27, 2007, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Ok well all the things you suggested arent even close to whats being asked for when people say they want 7 heroes. It isnt something new so saying its limited by the game design doesnt hold.

Also you wouldnt need all 7 open. Most builds run fine without any interaction and if you dont want to manage 8 builds...dont run builds that need to be managed?

lyra_song · Sep 27, 2007, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Ok well all the things you suggested arent even close to whats being asked for when people say they want 7 heroes. It isnt something new so saying its limited by the game design doesnt hold.

All those things ive mentioned use your excuse "Let people play how they wanna play."

I can come up with TONS of em. Its really easy.

Take an existing idea anywhere in the game, make it so its easier for everyone, and say "you dont have to play this way if you dont want to, we just want more options."

Quote:

Also you wouldnt need all 7 open. Most builds run fine without any interaction and if you dont want to manage 8 builds...dont run builds that need to be managed?

Ugh...but what about people who want to see those 8 builds?

Oh wait...how can they run it?

If you allow 7 heroes, those people cant run the builds they want!

What happened to "Let people play how they wanna play" ?

gremlin · Sep 27, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

For me it comes down to added flexability in the game.

Yes its an online game and I want to always play pve missions with real people if possible.
When I cannot find the right group of players for the mission I want to do, I go it alone, well me 3 heroes and 4 henchies.

Its no where near as fun as playing with a good party but has many advantages
I don't always have all day to play and have spent many an hour with half a party looking looking for the other half.
We have all been there havn't we, some days you spend more time waiting than playing.

Sometimes parties refuse to go untill they have 2 monks, this is not always possible.
Been on parties where people leave after they die a couple of times, result party has to restart.
Parties where players scatter all over the map then abuse the monks for not healing them, result monk leaves.

Good players are worth there weight in ectos but they are not always around, and some missions are so tricky you really need specific party builds to just make life easier.
SS necros for instance or parties with good interrupt capability, you try to get it but its very discouraging telling the party there is no way they will succeed.

As a fairly experienced player I can tell you I only got through some of the southern shiverpeaks missions because of really good parties, ditto the fire islands.
I doubt I could do them with heroes alone and I wouldnt want to try, but sometimes for the minor missions or capping skills heroes are all I need.

Mineria · Sep 27, 2007, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Yeah, lets get 7 heroes.
And then we could get all skills unlocked including PvE only skills on the heroes.
The PvE only skills should have max rank.
And why not add a script function on top of it, so we can program them to act like bots.
Then we really can play like we want to play the game.

AFK and letting the game run itself.

Sorry but all that nonsense about changing the game so much that it gets out of proportion, should not even bee posted as a suggestion.
Neither a suggestion to remove something that has been implemented for so long, and even is sold as in the box.

If you want to group with real players, do so, its not that hard.

If you want to go alone, use the current henchmen and heroes option, it works everywhere (except for some minor bugs, but you can adept to them until they are fixed).

That specific builds are needed is not correct.
Specific builds are only used to make things faster.
I played all 3 campaigns plus GW:EN, with 3 different classes, and never used those specific builds, on neither my characters or heroes.
This includes protector titles and elite areas.
Yeah, it takes some time, but it is fully possible.

And you think Anet doesn't know so? Think again.

Morwen Valkyria · Sep 28, 2007, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Yah right!! ok..so how good are you really Mineria?

Hmm , wait a sec..I think I agree with you really. Hardcore gaming. and we have a winner

Vinraith · Sep 28, 2007, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

If you want to go alone, use the current henchmen and heroes option, it works everywhere

No, it doesn't, or we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's impossible to play elite missions solo, since you aren't even allowed to have henchmen. It's virtually impossible to play certain areas in hardmode as well, because henchmen have such bad skill bars/usage.

Mineria · Sep 28, 2007, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morwen Valkyria

Yah right!! ok..so how good are you really Mineria?

Hmm , wait a sec..I think I agree with you really. Hardcore gaming. and we have a winner

It has nothing to do with being good or hardcore.

First look at the OP, who wants something removed, that has been implemented and stated as a sale argument.
That is like telling people you are selling apples, but you sell them oranges instead.

Then all those who want the henchmen replaced with heroes.
Even newbies can play the game with henchmen in the party.
Don't you think that I was there?
Prophecies and Factions didn't give us another option.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

It's impossible to play elite missions solo, since you aren't even allowed to have henchmen. It's virtually impossible to play certain areas in hardmode as well, because henchmen have such bad skill bars/usage.

2 players and 6 heroes?
And in Slaver's Excile, you can even bring the henches.
And hardmode + Elite areas, aren't those supposed to be for the experienced players in the first place anyway?

freaky naughty · Sep 28, 2007, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Rurik..... Do you know what my favorite memory with you is?

It was pwning your noob azz in Hells Precipice Mission, man you shoulda seen the look on your face when your good friend cut you down while rofl'ing.

When I pwned you I realized how easy it was and how noob you were even with the Lich's sparks and hands and fists of the titans. You were the definition of noob.

That's why no one wants henchies because theyre noob like you. I want seven slots for heroes so I won't have to encounter anymore gay PUG's and I won't have to use the inferior henchmen.

zamial · Sep 28, 2007, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Oh my dead, reanimated and beheaded prince,

I would ask if you had lost your mind but then I saw your head removed by my own hand, prior to the cinimatic I even changed up weapons to a sword, to watch you beg for my mercy.

But sadly my non properly buried friend, you as many gw1 players, will be lost to the great division of time. 4 million copies spread out over, those that have more than 1, played once and nay returned, have been banned from the kingdom, or can not play 24/7, amongst 4 campaigns ( for this math I shall include GW:EN as a campaign) then halved again as the Hard mode rift is added. Halved again to home/international districts. And in around a year the population again shall split as we will go forth and slay dragons. The population of GW1 is declining or at the very least, spread to thin.

Truly you, o wise pusher of daisies, can see that you have failed in your training of the players. It was you that showed the wammo's to run in and agro the entire map. Not once did you say don't throw a tantrum when you die. Nor be patient and kind to your fellow adventures. Or not to scam or cheat in the game. Nor to not act like a smart mouthed brat. Nor to be open minded. So, It is you that fail not I, when I choose to leave my local/trade channel off. It is you that fail, when the pug group wastes my life. It is you I despise and miss the least of all.

My true friends, that can be molded to fit any situation, that truly listen to their leader, will be laughing as I poor an ale onto the floor and say,"This is for the forgotten son of adelbern and his silly band of henchmen. For it will be our stories told, not his, as we will be ensconced forever into the hall of monuments."

Vinraith · Sep 28, 2007, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

2 players and 6 heroes?

That isn't "solo" by any meaning of the word with which I'm familiar. I play 2 player/6 heros whenever one of my friends is available to play and it's a blast. Sadly, though, our schedules don't always coordinate and our play time is limited. I've no interest in placing half my party in the hands of someone I don't know and don't trust.

Quote:

And in Slaver's Excile, you can even bring the henches.

And I very much appreciate that design decision on Anet's part. It'd be even better with 7 heroes, of course, but at least it's technically possible for a lone player to complete that area. Give me the ability to use henchmen in all elite areas and systematically improve the henchmen available in elite areas and hardmode to the level of those available in GWEN and I'd grudgingly take that as a small victory. Still the three hero limit places a massive limitation on party and build variety for solo players.

Quote:

And hardmode + Elite areas, aren't those supposed to be for the experienced players in the first place anyway?

Yes, what's that got to do with anything? You think people that play with H/H aren't "experienced?"

nebuchanezzar · Sep 28, 2007, 02:40 AM // 02:40

This is an online game. If you want a single player game please buy one. The inclusion of heroes was to help those who preferred solo play. Actually thats what henchmen were for but that wasn't good enough was it? Despite my dislike of H/H I actually use them more often that grouping anymore also. Odd though that I have beaten GW:en and all but one dungeon with H/H so far, that includes Slavers btw. The one I haven't done yet is Ragors Menagerie(sp). Did I mention that was with just myself, 3 heroes, and 4 henchmen?
I don't even do missions with PuGs anymore. If friends/guildies need some help I'm more than willing to but the game is easier and faster for me solo with H/H. That's right, in most cases easier and faster. With the exception of groups of friends/guildies I would say its ALWAYS faster than pugs. Having 7 heroes would be absolutely overpowered and your an idiot and @ss for even thinking otherwise. Go ahead and flame about how hard they are to control and all their shortcomings that make them inferior.........then tell us again why do you want 4 more?!?
To those of you who claim you cannot do "X" with heroes and henchmen...tough, I can so I know it can be done. There are exceptions like DoA but that was meant for ...people...you know....living things that don't work on a coded reaction....
Heroes exist because I am too lazy to wait for a full group(unless friends/guildies need me) while doing my Vanquishings and Hard Modes.
If you really want to do DoA or FoW or UW solo then do so.....solo. Otherwise(I know it hurts) talk to people, network, maybe even make some friends.....
Why are you playing an on-line game if you just want to be alone? Go reinstall FFVII or something. Play a game that was meant to be played solo. I'll say again though....it can be done with 3 heroes and 4 henchman. Done it with my Necro, Monk, and Warrior so don't claim it can't be done. If it can't the reason is looking at you in the mirror. Sorry to be so blunt but when you are the ONLY real person in a group you are the only one to blame.

Kaida the Heartless · Sep 28, 2007, 02:50 AM // 02:50

LOL

/notsigned

Ummmm, pugging still sucks? Fix IQ's and/or place an IQ limit on this game and I'll consider changing my vote to /signed.

Heroes were the best thing to ever happen to this game.

gameshoes3003 · Sep 28, 2007, 02:53 AM // 02:53

I would prefer that people would refrain from the usage of heroes because playing with human players is just better.
But generally it is difficult to find that one last person, I personally find heroes to be well suited for that kind of stuff.
I do like the henchies in Prophecies, might I add I think they're the best henchies in all of Guild Wars.
But heroes are very convenient and I don't think they'll gone.
But I do promoted human parties.

zling · Sep 28, 2007, 02:55 AM // 02:55

dont you ppl realize that when you claim "give us 7 heroes they're OPTIONAL" you're basically killing PuGs entirely?
dont you ppl realize that PuGs are pretty much dead anyway?
dont you ppl realize that there are already 4 different continents out of which 3 have splitting story lines? thus many many abandoned outposts...
dont you ppl realize that you dont have to micro manage your heroes? you can just use them as improved henchmen...
dont you ppl realize that so many of you are rage quitters, whammos, crazy meleemancers, etc? and that many others cant stand playing with you...
dont you ppl realize that so many of you cant kite and think its macho to aggro the entire map or stand toe to toe with some bad ass boss even though you have pathetic caster armor? and you wonder why others dont want you on their team...
dont you people realize that henchmen are very very stupid? but the sad thing is that they're still smarter than so many of you...

I like playing with other people, I really do. but there are too many morons, rage quitters, whammos, etc that completely ruin my gaming experience. and I'm a person that looks for PuGs and preffers them over H&H whenever possible, aka non abandoned outposts and other cooperative people... but even I get tired of so many of you... a Warrior with Healing Hands, Healing Breeze, Orison of Healing, Healing Touch, Live Vicarously, Vigorous Spirit and Power Attack is not what I consider a WARRIOR!!! neither is a Warrior with Dolyak Signet, Signet of Stamina, Endure Pain, Defy Pain, Bonneti's Defense, Defensive Stance, Riposte and Deadly Riposte!!!

I only wish there were others like me who are decent/good players who like PuGing and wish to PuG even though they have H&H available... than I'd perhaps have a decent chance of PuGing with decent people instead of those phony Warriors among others...