Curse

Andrew Almond · Jun 13, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46

I had this topic posted elswhere but thought i would post it again since it is something I want changed. I feel secondary war/sin characters should be able to use these weapons. I have a guild.. The Ancient Assassins.. I run mostly as Dervish/Assassin.. I cant use Shiros Blades because of a 13 req. Every other green weapon has a req of maybe 9 besides Shiros Sword which is also 13. It is kinda funny tho seeing the Avatar of Balthazar.. the God of War.. unable to use a weapon.

Kale Ironfist · Jun 14, 2007, 02:07 AM // 02:07

The whole point of the weapon having high requirements are for role-playing reasons. Shiro himself was highly skilled, so the items reflect that. At the very least, be appreciative that it dropped from 15.

Andrew Almond · Jun 14, 2007, 05:34 AM // 05:34

A weapon shouldnt have high requirements simply because someone highly skilled was using them. Shiro could have had a 50 in dagger mastery for all anyone knows.. the point is.. anyone carryin around two swords should be able to do more damage with them than they could with a pair of butter knifes. And i do appreciate that they dropped the req from 15 to 13. They ought to drop it two more points too.

Div · Jun 14, 2007, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Shiro's weapons were set at 13 so secondary professions can't use it. Why else do you think they didn't make it lower? If you want to use his daggers, then make an assassin, not a dervish.

Kale Ironfist · Jun 14, 2007, 05:45 AM // 05:45

You still aren't posting a convincing argument. These weapons are meant for the highly skilled (read: high weapon mastery), so the requirement reflects that. Just because you want a character that uses Warrior or Assassin secondary to use them effectively isn't a convincing enough argument.

13 is borderline as it is. After all, 12 weapon mastery deals the stated damage on the weapon (and therefore, not highly skilled in the use of the weapon).

Another argument (which isn't the purpose of the thread, but I'll throw it in anyway), is that unless you are of the primary profession that is supposed to wield the weapons, generally, you won't be good at it anyway. D/As lose out Deep Wound unless they use Impale or Augury of Death, and Critical Strikes.

Andrew Almond · Jun 14, 2007, 05:47 AM // 05:47

why would they not want secondary professions using them?

Qual · Jun 14, 2007, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kale Ironfist

The whole point of the weapon having high requirements are for role-playing reasons. Shiro himself was highly skilled, so the items reflect that. At the very least, be appreciative that it dropped from 15.

I like that point of view and I agree. I even liked it when it was at 15.

Andrew Almond · Jun 14, 2007, 05:52 AM // 05:52

and with your argument... it completely goes the other way with an assassin using a scythe.. u dont have to be skilled to use one.

linh · Jun 14, 2007, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Because any build uses so high weapon mastery ( 12 points as you suggest) as secondary profession is just bad. ( sword and dagger to be specific).
And you are high skilled with post count and low skilled with using "Edit".

Kale Ironfist · Jun 14, 2007, 06:43 AM // 06:43

If you don't care about roleplay reasons, then you don't care about PvE... so why would it matter?

spellsword · Jun 14, 2007, 07:17 AM // 07:17

I never said that, I do more PvE than PvP, actually. But guild wars is about balance. One would expect a Tormented sword to be more powerful than an ordinary long sword, as well as harder to use. But for the sake of balance, they are the same power wise. Yet Shiro's weapons are worse than their counterparts. There is no reason for this. If you use RP as a reason, then you would have to apply this to other things as well.

Sophitia Leafblade · Jun 14, 2007, 08:28 AM // 08:28

/not signed, there the only unique Req greens in the game atm they should stay that way!

Kale Ironfist · Jun 14, 2007, 08:41 AM // 08:41

They aren't worse by any stretch. Pretty much any Warrior or Assassin using their weapon mastery has it at or above 13. Net result? Nothing changes. For RP reasons, these weapons were meant to be used only by primaries, hence the high requirement to enforce that.

freekedoutfish · Jun 14, 2007, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Almond

Actually they ought to drop it 4 more points.. to 9 just like every other green weapon.

Shiros sword and blade isnt like most other greens! Their distinctive in actually being an end-game weapon!

Its not just your casual green weapon that any old boss drops at a random location throughout the campaign. Its a green weapon you aquire at the end, after completing the campaign, which your given as a reward using the amulet of the mists.

But because its an end-game weapon, it has to stand out from the other countless regular greens. The high require points are probably meant to symbolise a weapon that requires alot of skill to use, and Anet probably didnt want every warrior running around with the same sword.

The high requirement is also meant to act as a deterant, to make it more uniquely used. It may not be hugely different to most other green swords or blades in terms of stats, but this is how you distinguise it.

At the end of the day, there are countless other green swords and blades that exist at lower requirements. If you dont want a req13+ weapon, then use the alternatives.

But why is the high req so bad? Surely putting more points into one attribute isnt a bad thing? Surely req13 weapons are fine for those professions that want to max out their attributes?

If the green weapon doesnt match your build, or skill point levels, then get a different green weapon. There is a large choice to pick from!

Its obviously intended for a dedicated swordsminship build!

Lonesamurai · Jun 14, 2007, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

But why is the high req so bad? Surely putting more points into one attribute isnt a bad thing? Surely req13 weapons are fine for those professions that want to max out their attributes?

he wants to use it on an assasin secondary with dervish as his primary and of course that means he can't get 13 in Dagger mastery unless he's an assasin primary...

of course, he also seems like the type that will let the vamp degen kill him and then shout at the monk of the group for not healing him...

Anarion Silverhand · Jun 14, 2007, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Andrew Almond, you're allowed to go above 1 sentence per post. Please don't post 4 messages after each other, use 1.

As for the thread, please keep it civil and on track.

-Anarion.

Bazompora · Jun 14, 2007, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

anyway, no it doesn't make sense as warriors aren't meant to dual wield weapons, they have two handed weapons, or they wield a weapons and shield/foci...

But W/A can dual wield!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Plus if your running a weapon for your primary profession for damage dealing, you should be running as much in that attribute as possible for the skill damage, wether the weapon is Req 8, 9, 10, 11, etc anyway...
Not even to mention the fact that Assasin and Warrior actually have a good weapon that promotes the use of the class as a primary and for using that class as intended, but fnuh, maybe ANet have no clue about thier own game

Never heard of Strength builds?
High attribute rank in Strength + 9 Dagger Mastery + Strength attack skills = decent dmg output.
This takes away your arguement.

Moa Bird Cultist · Jun 14, 2007, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Simple Solution: Introduce a 'Two Swords' Dagger skin. Make it different from Shiro's and possibly have it drop as a gold as well as a green. That way, non sins that want to use a pair of swords can and the roleplayers don't lose anything either. Everyone wins.

Lonesamurai · Jun 14, 2007, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazompora

But W/A can dual wield!

How? theres no such thing as Dual wielding in the game... Daggers are Two handed weapons according to the game mechanics... please learn the game your playing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazompora

Never heard of Strength builds?
High attribute rank in Strength + 9 Dagger Mastery + Strength attack skills = decent dmg output.
This takes away your arguement.

high dagger mastery + crit strikes = better

Quote:

Originally Posted by official Wiki

Critical Strikes

Critical Strikes is the primary attribute of Assassins.
A list of Critical Strikes related skills can be found here.

In-game description

"The chance for critical hits increases 1% for each attribute point spent in Critical Strikes. For each critical hit, the Assassin receives 1 energy at rank 3 and above, 2 energy at rank 8 and above, and 3 energy at rank 13 and above."

Critical Strikes skills

Many Critical Strikes skills relate to critical hits in some way. The Critical Strikes attribute includes enchantments, basic skills, lead, off-hand and dual attacks, a single hex, a single stance and a single melee attack. Critical Strikes skills include condition removal, enchantment removal, energy management, offensive support skills, defensive skills and skills to inflict Bleeding and Deep Wound.

Tactics

This ability is often used at higher levels in conjunction with skills that guarantee or increase the chance of critical strikes to link attacks together even when you don't have the energy to do all of the skills because of the energy restored by the successful critical strikes.

please read and learn

blue.rellik · Jun 14, 2007, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazompora

But W/A can dual wield!

Never heard of Strength builds?
High attribute rank in Strength + 9 Dagger Mastery + Strength attack skills = decent dmg output.
This takes away your arguement.

Keyword being 'decent'