Curse

ensoriki · Oct 13, 2007, 04:35 PM // 16:35

High End armors
This post is about the current formula of having to attain these armors.

High end armors are a goal for many character, A symbol of experience and dedication to the game. Yet the way you obtain them is in my honest opinion. absurd. To get a high end armor you need to gather up some materials, rare ones, then you gather up money, lots of it. While for many people this is tradition and it only makes sense that you pay a lot for it, to me it doesn't.

My proposal is to change high end armors from a gold sink, to a series of quests. I think obsidian shards,ectos etc. should still be a valid part in obtaining the armors and I think people should pay a minimum of 1-3k (not entirely sure) for each piece of the armor, but not as much as we have to now.

I think each armor should get a seperate quest, the quests shouldn't be hard to make. The way I envision it is as such.

You get a quest from the current armor creators about obtaining a rare armor. The first part of the quest is to destroy monsters that are ruining business in the towns. (Depending on what campaign your character is from the city changes, its kind of like Going to Nightfall quests for each city, you'd be transported to an instanced Kaineng/kamadon/lions arch where there are a couple of monsters for you to beat SOLO, this quest would be hard but doable for all classes. This means that if the person got through this part they know how to solo.

The second part would be the armor creator warming up to you and telling you about the rare armor he/she sells (Fow etc.). He/she asks you if you want to create the armor, and he sends you on a quest to get Ecto/obsidian etc from X monster. These monsters would spawn in the explorable area nearest the crafter (I forgot the names =P to lazy to check)
They would come up only because you have this quest, they'd be like the normal monsters that drop Ecto/obsidian but There would be 1 of them thats a boss. The boss would be the 1 you have to kill to get the ecto/obsidian but hes in the middle of a wave or so of monsters. All classes would be able to do this of course, this shows that you can pull.

The second last part (third)
Would be you having to fight your doppelganger (once again!) but he has random henchmen with him so 5 monsters you have to beat (doppel ganger,hench 1, hench 2, hench 3, hench 4) The henchmen he fights with are random. And after beating him the first time he and his team respawn a second time with 3 additional henchmen (ergo 8 characters, 1 for each profession) And there all a bit higher level than you (about 24 I guess)
This shows you can show strategy or preparation.

The last part, warps you to a small pvp map (im not sure which 1, but I think the dunes would be best) and the first wave your henchmen are sealed away from you and you have to solo, the 2nd wave your henchmen come out... and over extension kills you, so you have to pull and the last part, 3 doppel gangers come out and 6 afflicted, 4 titans and 6 Margonites

After that you can buy your high level armor (the quests would always be the same... you just have to do them over again for each new high level npc you talk to)

Im not saying it has to be exactly like that, but right now FoW/Ancient etc really just mean you have the cash, it doesn't reflect that you know how to play.

Comments?

Living Legend · Oct 13, 2007, 04:48 PM // 16:48

I think the money in the armor is fine, there's really no such thing as high end armors because you can get maxed out armor for 1.5k it's all your own money whether you want to pay for that other look of the armor, and maxed out armor doesn't reflect that you can play. What shows that you can play it reflects solely on your titles because It not only shows your pve titles but also your pvp titles. If this was put in it would just be another result of less trading for people and something less to do in the game.

Mineria · Oct 13, 2007, 04:57 PM // 16:57

So to do this every class will need to use specific builds to succeed?
*Looking pvx wiki, using gold to buy skills for specific build*

Anyway, your suggestion might be a bit late, lots of people already got their armors the way you get them now.
So changing this to your way will mean, not fair to people who go for the same sets now.
The Idea might be useful for sets added later on or GW2 though.

Just my 5 cents.

Snow Bunny · Oct 13, 2007, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

High End armors
This post is about the current formula of having to attain these armors.

High end armors are a goal for many character, A symbol of experience and dedication to the game. Yet the way you obtain them is in my honest opinion. absurd. To get a high end armor you need to gather up some materials, rare ones, then you gather up money, lots of it. While for many people this is tradition and it only makes sense that you pay a lot for it, to me it doesn't.

My proposal is to change high end armors from a gold sink, to a series of quests. I think obsidian shards,ectos etc. should still be a valid part in obtaining the armors and I think people should pay a minimum of 1-3k (not entirely sure) for each piece of the armor, but not as much as we have to now.

I think each armor should get a seperate quest, the quests shouldn't be hard to make. The way I envision it is as such.

You get a quest from the current armor creators about obtaining a rare armor. The first part of the quest is to destroy monsters that are ruining business in the towns. (Depending on what campaign your character is from the city changes, its kind of like Going to Nightfall quests for each city, you'd be transported to an instanced Kaineng/kamadon/lions arch where there are a couple of monsters for you to beat SOLO, this quest would be hard but doable for all classes. This means that if the person got through this part they know how to solo.

The second part would be the armor creator warming up to you and telling you about the rare armor he/she sells (Fow etc.). He/she asks you if you want to create the armor, and he sends you on a quest to get Ecto/obsidian etc from X monster. These monsters would spawn in the explorable area nearest the crafter (I forgot the names =P to lazy to check)
They would come up only because you have this quest, they'd be like the normal monsters that drop Ecto/obsidian but There would be 1 of them thats a boss. The boss would be the 1 you have to kill to get the ecto/obsidian but hes in the middle of a wave or so of monsters. All classes would be able to do this of course, this shows that you can pull.

The second last part (third)
Would be you having to fight your doppelganger (once again!) but he has random henchmen with him so 5 monsters you have to beat (doppel ganger,hench 1, hench 2, hench 3, hench 4) The henchmen he fights with are random. And after beating him the first time he and his team respawn a second time with 3 additional henchmen (ergo 8 characters, 1 for each profession) And there all a bit higher level than you (about 24 I guess)
This shows you can show strategy or preparation.

The last part, warps you to a small pvp map (im not sure which 1, but I think the dunes would be best) and the first wave your henchmen are sealed away from you and you have to solo, the 2nd wave your henchmen come out... and over extension kills you, so you have to pull and the last part, 3 doppel gangers come out and 6 afflicted, 4 titans and 6 Margonites

After that you can buy your high level armor (the quests would always be the same... you just have to do them over again for each new high level npc you talk to)

Im not saying it has to be exactly like that, but right now FoW/Ancient etc really just mean you have the cash, it doesn't reflect that you know how to play.

Comments?

There are enough people lollygagging around in FoW by now that you should understand that getting the capital for 15k is really, seriously, not that difficult

ensoriki · Oct 13, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Living Legend

I think the money in the armor is fine, there's really no such thing as high end armors because you can get maxed out armor for 1.5k it's all your own money whether you want to pay for that other look of the armor, and maxed out armor doesn't reflect that you can play. What shows that you can play it reflects solely on your titles because It not only shows your pve titles but also your pvp titles. If this was put in it would just be another result of less trading for people and something less to do in the game.

Im aware of that by High end I mean it be actually worth something morally.
Also remember, how A-net loves to say this game is for the casual gamer etc? Casual gamer isn't going to want to farm... and unless a-net says they WANT you to farm, doing it as a quest is a nicer way. Basically its more of
" you've beaten the game, So if you can do this you get a nice trophy to, with just the added cost of some hides or whatever and 1/2/3k (whatever).
The price of ecto's would go down too, And the market place could slowly restore itself (A BIT) as Ecto's don't need to be sold as much etc.

Yes there are people who already have High End Armors, Well that means they spent the time farming, now people can spend the time playing Casually but you of course still need money to buy it =P!

Mineria · Oct 13, 2007, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Im aware of that by High end I mean it be actually worth something morally.
Also remember, how A-net loves to say this game is for the casual gamer etc? Casual gamer isn't going to want to farm... and unless a-net says they WANT you to farm, doing it as a quest is a nicer way. Basically its more of
" you've beaten the game, So if you can do this you get a nice trophy to, with just the added cost of some hides or whatever and 1/2/3k (whatever).
The price of ecto's would go down too, And the market place could slowly restore itself (A BIT) as Ecto's don't need to be sold as much etc.

Yes there are people who already have High End Armors, Well that means they spent the time farming, now people can spend the time playing Casually but you of course still need money to buy it =P!

So if casual players beats the game, they cant afford an elite set?
What are they using all their gold on?

I want to share some facts about how it works for me, that should show that it is not hard for a casual player.

Played 1544 hours in the last 26 months on 7 PvE characters.
4 of them are level 20.
3 of them did the following.
Completed all Prophecies missions with 2.
Completed all Factions mission with 2.
Completed all Nightfall missions with 2.
Completed Eye of the North with 1.
That is a total amount of 7 time campaigns completed.
Enough for me to buy:
1 Elite Kurzick set
1 Elite Ice Forged set
1 Vabian set
1 Silver Eagle set
All with Insignias and Runes that benefit the class that uses the set.
3 of them with Superior Vigor Runes.
On top of that lots and lots of greens and gold items.
And most of my Heroes got good stuff as well.
Not to mention that the material price have been taking a huge dive in the time between when I got my sets to the current date.

I don't even farm like a lot of players do.
I play the side quests, vanquish, master on missions etc.

And then to the point of morally.
You let some one gain items in a game as you planned it to be.
You observe it, and the way it works seem good for both those who got a lot of time, and those who got little time.
That should mean, it works for the whole player base, as long as they don't waste their gold/materials away.

Why then make it even more casual then it is now?

1. Casual players can get an elite set after beating the game.
2. It would be unfair towards those that got the same elite set in the current way.
3. There would be no point in having materials in the game.

PS. Blizzard did the failure to remove a PvP ladder system from WoW, so the casual players could gain the same without competing on it.
Maybe The next thing asked for here on the forums is Arena.net to remove the GvG ladders and other PvP competition systems so the poor casuals can get a share.
At that point things start to become not special.
And who likes to play a game where nothing is special any more?

Not saying that this will be asked for or happen, just my way to try explaining that spreading every thing out over the entire player base will eventually make it less special and more boring, since there will be no higher goal to aim for.
At that point you could as well play local instead of playing in an multiplayer online game.

Zahr Dalsk · Oct 13, 2007, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

The price of ecto's would go down too

I hope they don't drop any further, personally. They would be better going up in value.

Vilaptca · Oct 13, 2007, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

The second last part (third)
Would be you having to fight your doppelganger (once again!) but he has random henchmen with him so 5 monsters you have to beat (doppel ganger,hench 1, hench 2, hench 3, hench 4) The henchmen he fights with are random. And after beating him the first time he and his team respawn a second time with 3 additional henchmen (ergo 8 characters, 1 for each profession) And there all a bit higher level than you (about 24 I guess)
This shows you can show strategy or preparation.

The last part, warps you to a small pvp map (im not sure which 1, but I think the dunes would be best) and the first wave your henchmen are sealed away from you and you have to solo, the 2nd wave your henchmen come out... and over extension kills you, so you have to pull and the last part, 3 doppel gangers come out and 6 afflicted, 4 titans and 6 Margonites

Ummm...what? This is just random nothingness that has nothing to do with crafting armor or the quest series. At least the first few quests you had made sense...but these are just...random...and not to be rude...but they are kind of stupid...

For what reason are you fighting your doppleganger again? Because he doesn't want you to wear armor? O.o

Why are we fighting Afflicted, Titans, Margonites and Dopplegangers?

It sounds like someone grabbed a map and then went to wiki and picked 4 random monsters to have fight in the map. It just doesn't make sense......at all.

I'm not against armor that can be gained from a quest. I just think those last quests were horrible.

ensoriki · Oct 13, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vilaptca

Ummm...what? This is just random nothingness that has nothing to do with crafting armor or the quest series. At least the first few quests you had made sense...but these are just...random...and not to be rude...but they are kind of stupid...

For what reason are you fighting your doppleganger again? Because he doesn't want you to wear armor? O.o

Why are we fighting Afflicted, Titans, Margonites and Dopplegangers?

It sounds like someone grabbed a map and then went to wiki and picked 4 random monsters to have fight in the map. It just doesn't make sense......at all.

I'm not against armor that can be gained from a quest. I just think those last quests were horrible.

Like I said before, It doesn't have to be like I said, I was just giving ideas for a quest to obtain them.
__________________
Minera I hear you, Though look what you posted
26 months and you bought how much armor? 4.

4 divided by 26 is 6 months a piece, the casual gamer only spends 2-3 months on a game before taking a break or never coming back

not all gamers have your experience either, but I hear you.

Mineria · Oct 13, 2007, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Minera I hear you, Though look what you posted
26 months and you bought how much armor? 4.

4 divided by 26 is 6 months a piece, the casual gamer only spends 2-3 months on a game before taking a break or never coming back

not all gamers have your experience either, but I hear you.

Yes 26 months, but only 1500 hours played.
This 1500 hours is spread out over 7 characters, plus my 8th PvP only character.
4 Elite sets are included within the 1500 hours, but so is a lot of other stuff.
Even hours just hanging around and chatting.
If I wouldn't collect things, I buy some items from other players as well, I could have given all 7 characters Elite sets.

ensoriki · Oct 13, 2007, 08:42 PM // 20:42

I see what your saying >.>

But the average new player or casual player is an absolute idiot there first maybe 2nd time around. When I started my sin I spent cash like wild fire, thinking like most games it be easy to regain later on (to lazyyyyy to farm)
but its wasn't so. I must've spent so much money on skills trying out new things, because generally in a new game we want to try everything -_-.... cash Sink right there....Sure if I did all the quest I'd make an extra 80k I think (all quests in the game) but...theres an ass pipe load and many of em are rehashed so its far to tedious (i rather farm actually)

Mineria · Oct 13, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

I as well did fool around on my first 2 characters.
Used gold on several max armor sets, blue weapons and so on.
Not to mention loads of skills.
If there was an option to display how many skills I got, I would do it and post it for you to.
Oh almost forgot that I got some maxed titles as well.
And that I looked at the wiki and such sites for my first time this summer.
I think the game is easy enough even for some one who only has 1-2 hours a day.
26 months is around 780 days, so 1500 hours / 780 = 1.9 hours a day.

But I agree on one thing, not every one gets along as easy with the game.

I might have learned a bit from hardcore raiding and pvp'ing in wow for a year... at least for pve, that gives me some sort of advantage.
I still enjoy the GW PvE part more, since it doesn't give me the stress of being in game and ready to play on fixed days for a certain duration of time.
Or all the planning for leading a raid and farming for potions and gold just to be prepared to learn a new dungeon.
Even if it was fun to complete an instance without any wiki and without any of those mods they use these days.
Thats one of the best things with playing GW, you can have a life and still reach your goals.
Who promised us that we would reach that goal in 1 hour any way?
I would be dissapointed and ask to get my money back if that was the case.

Government Flu · Oct 13, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

There is nothing absurd about the cost of elite armor, not even obsidian. The great thing about Guild Wars is that you can have maximum armor for a very low price. For the more dedicated players, there is also the option for armor with the exact same statistics but far better art.

Look, you can pay a very small fee to get a cheap print of a Van Gogh painting or get the real deal for millions of dollars. Personally, I think the current system is just fine.

HawkofStorms · Oct 14, 2007, 01:20 AM // 01:20

/notsigned

If nothing else, its just too late to implement something like this anyway.

Furthermore your examples are kinda... rubish.

Exterminate all · Oct 14, 2007, 01:04 PM // 13:04

To me, the gold in the armor is fine. Its not really hard to gather a group of people, and go do some UW or FOW to get some change for your armor. It's also fun to do UW and FoW. If you had to do all of this to get your elite armor, it wouldnt be as exciting. It's always fun to see pieces of new elite armor in your inventory. Not as exciting to do quests to get pieces at a time, and then get 1-3k.

/notsigned

pamelf · Oct 14, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

A completely unnecessary change at this point in GW's life...