Curse

Malchior · Sep 22, 2007, 05:05 PM // 17:05

I do see your point, however this would make the game stupidly easy.

Perhaps some small bonus for the whole game when you max that said title? For example, if you max Norn, you get a fixed percent of what the title does in Norn teritory? Like maybe +50hp through-out the rest of the game at rank 10? (I don't know what the Norn title offers in regards to title ranks, so this is a random guess)

fireflyry · Sep 22, 2007, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

You could argue that FOW armor rewards insainly long grind to either buy or farm ectos and shards!

FOW armor certainly doesnt reward skill or effort. You just need the materials, and to then do an armor run to the crafter and a few easy quests along the same.

Should we remove FOW armor on that basis, along with all the other aspects which players concider to be grind?

Somehow I get the feeling there would be a huge outcry if FOW was to suddenly be removed, or the grind to achieve it was removed!

First it was consumables now your comparing aesthetics to permanent in game advantage.

The point is you can get armour for 1k that puts you on exactly the same level as a player with FoW armor.FoW armor creates absolutely no in-game advantage it just looks different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I notice how no one complains about PvP and the pressure put on players to grind their gladiator titles to higher levels. There is a huge amount of pressure on players in PvP to be a certain rank to join teams, otherwise your "not good enough".

Gladiator title is a marker, nothing more.Asuran/Norm titles are a bonus in health and energy.Thats why nobody complains.

Your analogies are getting worse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Neither are important, neither are critical to the game, neither are required or forced upon you in anyway. Yet people want them maxed out. Not because its vitally important, but only because they want these new oober powerfull skills to make their lives easier!

I 'll say it again.

Your asking that people who grind for these titles get to be lvl 25 while those that choose not too or do not own GWEN have to stay lvl 20.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

People are complaining about having the status effects game wide because they dont want to grind to max the titles to have the status effects be 100% effective.

Why do you keep saying "People don't want these titles because of this...." when people have stated exactly why they don't want them.

Have you actually read the reasons why or merely choose to ignore it and think up your own reasons to argue against.

Every valid point raised for these titles to stay in GWEN specific areas so far seems to have been blatantly ignored by you while you justify your argument against reasons you yourself have created.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

You dont need to use them or even have them be 100% effective. But if they were to be game wide, players would want to use them. Not because their critical to gameplay, but just because theyd make their lives easier and they want to be as powerfull as the guy next to them.

Who would'nt want to be lvl 25.....seriously....

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

This is more about ego then actual inbalancement and advantages and disadvantages. Its about seeing the player next to you with rank 8 Norn and being jealous because your only rank 5. But you dont want to grind to get the extra health.

Again....it has nothing to do with that.Re-read this whole thread please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Despite it not even being important or vital to the game. But because this other player has a higher rank, you have to aswell otherwise its unfair.

+100 health, +15 energy unimportant?

In a game where Superior Runes of Vigor go for 10-12k and people are after every pip of energy they can get I again wonder if you even play GW that much or just spend your time here writing completely illogical requests.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

People through this word "grind" around when it suit them. But they seem to ignore that they have spent the last 2 years playing a game, that already asked them to grind 10000 times over.

You have grinded to buy your armor, you have grinded to get your green weapon, you have grinded to explore and open chests and do missions!

Nope...I have never grinded sorry.I have found playing the games through is enough to give me what I need.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Yet its only now you complain because its suddenly a grind you dont personally enjoy!

No, it's because we would be forced to grind to attain max in-game level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I have legendary guardian, and it has no importance on the game.

Exactly.

Razz Thom · Sep 22, 2007, 08:25 PM // 20:25

OK Troll to the rescue.........
There can be no imbalance in PvE.
There I said it, and if you are stupid enough to argue it then you are doomed to stupidity forever.
1 ) Drops. assigned = no favoritism for one skill set over another.
2 ) Environment. instanced = no change no matter what you bring.
3 ) Skills. identical = no one gets access to anything someone else doesn't have access to. I own EotN, if you don't tough. When I only had NF, others had skills I couldn't get. Too bad for me. Deal with it. Buy the expansion and STFU.
4 ) Loot. DUH = If you can't get it without the PvE only skills, you won't get it with them.
5 ) Difficulty. Who cares = The game is more or less difficult depending on your ability to translate skills into a working set. If you can't do that, some title isn't going to help you.
6 ) Grouping. PUG = If you require me to have a certain skill rank or if you require me to adjust my skill bar to suit you period I wouldn't be grouped with you anyway so STFU.
7 ) Balance. IT IS P freakin v freakin E!!!!!! = You are not on my team. Don't worry about what I'm doing. And don't say "Q_Q.It will ruin the economy.Q_Q" because farming is already happening and isn't going to stop and to be honest i doubt many 55ers want to use a title that gives !!!! more health !!!! DUH. and TBH the smidgeon of energy won't change anything either so give it a rest.

When it is all said and done, I worked hard for r8 asura maybe i would like to see it do something elsewhere than in 3 little areas.

P.S. All of you who are complaining about the title working outside the area sure haven't mentioned the consumables that can be sold or traded. Hmmmmm. Wonder why that is? If you were truly thinking about game balance you would say something about the consumables too. Maybe they should only work in Dungeons in EotN, and be untradeable/customised to whomever purchased them.

Bryant Again · Sep 22, 2007, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

When it is all said and done, I worked hard for r8 asura maybe i would like to see it do something elsewhere than in 3 little areas.

Well I worked very hard for my FoW armor and would like to see it give me more than +80 armor. In the meantime I'd like my KoaBD title to give me -1 damage per rank. See how silly that sounds?

The rest of your post is either too silly or too confusing to comment on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

P.S. All of you who are complaining about the title working outside the area sure haven't mentioned the consumables that can be sold or traded.

Keep reading.

fireflyry · Sep 22, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

3 ) Skills. identical = no one gets access to anything someone else doesn't have access to. I own EotN, if you don't tough. When I only had NF, others had skills I couldn't get. Too bad for me. Deal with it. Buy the expansion and STFU.

Thats funny...I must have missed the other campaign skills that gives permanent +100 health and +15 energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

P.S. All of you who are complaining about the title working outside the area sure haven't mentioned the consumables that can be sold or traded. Hmmmmm. Wonder why that is? If you were truly thinking about game balance you would say something about the consumables too. Maybe they should only work in Dungeons in EotN, and be untradeable/customised to whomever purchased them.

Several posts have specifically mentioned and successfully proved the futility of that comparison.

Consumables are a party wide bonus and can be accessed by all players through trade. not title grind.

Big difference.

Razz Thom · Sep 22, 2007, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Well I worked very hard for my FoW armor and would like to see it give me more than +80 armor. In the meantime I'd like my KoaBD title to give me -1 damage per rank. See how silly that sounds?

The rest of your post is either too silly or too confusing to comment on.

Keep reading.

See this is the stupidity i was referring to. KoaBD doesn't do that for anyone anywhere. Is there like a giant shield over asura territory that prevents it's benefits from working outside the area? If so i haven't seen it. lightbringer works on abbadon's minions everywhere they are, it has a fixed effect EVERYWHERE. Asura only works in the jungle areas around asura towns/Norn the same. That is dumb. I could care less about the location aspect but they need to make it work everywhere or remove uit completely because sometimes i forget to change my title track when i'm in a different area and it is a waste. so a-net needs to remove all title benefits according to your logic because it is just as unfair outside Rata Sum as it would be outside Sunspear Sanctuary.

And of course the part about PvE imbalance would confuse you, because you choose to not get the concept of my game and yopur game are 2 different things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Consumables are a party wide bonus and can be accessed by all players through trade. not title grind.

Big difference.

Really so if i don't choose to pay you a huge chunk of money for your powerstone and i don't own GWEN i can just get one anywhere right? Sure that would be fair, except you are making exception so you can sell them to the people who don't have access to them. which blows your "balance" argument right out of the water. and there is no title that gives both of those things, but there is a consumable that adds both. Let me guess that can be overlooked due to your wallet ,yes?

fireflyry · Sep 22, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

Really so if i don't choose to pay you a huge chunk of money for your powerstone and i don't own GWEN i can just get one anywhere right? Sure that would be fair, except you are making exception so you can sell them to the people who don't have access to them. which blows your "balance" argument right out of the water. and there is no title that gives both of those things, but there is a consumable that adds both. Let me guess that can be overlooked due to your wallet ,yes?

lol

Your logic is so seriously flawed I really can't be bothered repeating the valid points of myself and others.

I suggest you re-read the thread as that tangent and attempt at justification has already been covered and proved wrong.

Bryant Again · Sep 22, 2007, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

lightbringer works on abbadon's minions everywhere they are, it has a fixed effect EVERYWHERE

Except you can only find Abaddon's minions in bulk in the Realm of Torment. so in essence it *does* have a fixed effect area. There are of course very few exceptions to this.

So in other words what's the difference?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

I could care less about the location aspect but they need to make it work everywhere or remove uit completely because sometimes i forget to change my title track when i'm in a different area and it is a waste.

Sooooo it should be changed universally because of your forgetfulness? That's a fault that you can easily fix.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

so a-net needs to remove all title benefits according to your logic because it is just as unfair outside Rata Sum as it would be outside Sunspear Sanctuary.

No.

Razz Thom · Sep 22, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

So then to simplify...
What you are saying is that the buying and then selling of consumables at jacked up prices to those underprivileged few who don't have access to GWEN is perfectly acceptable. But having the title track that those same few don't have access to is unfair. Because it is on all the time. Where as their money is only meant for the unscrupulous jerks who live to take advantage of noobs. That about right? Like I said what A-net needs to do is remove any title based bonus from the game therefor making the whole experience antiseptic and sterile. No grind for those who wish to do so, it isn't fair to those who don't. And please A-net start selling consumables for 1g at every merchant to stop the pirates from raping noobs because that isn't fair either. It is a game of seperatism and you are speaking of balance, when the only balance you seek is your cash balance at the end of the day. I am not in your party, and I have 100 more HP than you. Tell me, does that change your game. What if I hack it and give myself 1000 more than you. You wouldn't even know and your game wouldn't change. Thus balance is the worst PvE argument ever. It is dumb and pointless to even mention balance in a PvE game. If this was PvP however every point you make would be valid.

Bryant Again · Sep 22, 2007, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

Like I said what A-net needs to do is remove any title based bonus from the game therefor making the whole experience antiseptic and sterile. No grind for those who wish to do so, it isn't fair to those who don't.

Sarcasm is nearly impossible to pull off. Are you serious here or no? Yes, I agree with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

I am not in your party, and I have 100 more HP than you. Tell me, does that change your game.

No it doesn't. It's a different story when people are trying to get into PUGs (which is the basis of me and Fireflyry's argument).

Razz Thom · Sep 22, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

But as i stated earlier if you are trying to get into a PUG that wants you to change your skills to suit them then there is something wrong with that from the start. No one skill set works for every situation and every player does things slightly different, so adjusting your setup to someone else's idea of correct is wrong intrinsically. The sooner people pick up on that fact the sooner the game will correct its own balance.

P.S. it should be all or nothing. no sarcasm. don't tease me with B.S. only works in a small area abilities. Make em work everywhere or nowhere. if they don't continue to work just take em out.

Bryant Again · Sep 22, 2007, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

But as i stated earlier if you are trying to get into a PUG that wants you to change your skills to suit them then there is something wrong with that from the start. No one skill set works for every situation and every player does things slightly different, so adjusting your setup to someone else's idea of correct is wrong intrinsically. The sooner people pick up on that fact the sooner the game will correct its own balance.

So you agree that yes, that person that is lfg is screwed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

P.S. it should be all or nothing. no sarcasm. don't tease me with B.S. only works in a small area abilities. Make em work everywhere or nowhere. if they don't continue to work just take em out.

/Signed for nothing.

Razz Thom · Sep 22, 2007, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

So you agree that yes, that person that is lfg is screwed.

/Signed for nothing.

Only if they can't find there own group. Last time I checked that is what guilds are for. If you can't find a decent PUG ask your guild. If they are no help, find a better one.

theblackmage · Sep 22, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

This may have been mentioned before, but this is the type of thing I highly doubt anyone wants:

LFG vanquishing Predition Rock, must have R8+ Norn

Now, vanquishing there probably isn't nearly that tough (I've never tried it, myself), but it would sure make it easier, thus giving a larger margin for newb error. However, if the bonus applied to everywhere in EotN areas, maybe. Then everyone that has access to a particular zone that lets you have Norn/Azura bonus by default has access to the title involved. The only title that currently goes against that is Vanguard, which can be used in Old Ascalon. Then again, title bonuses thus far are all very specific, including Vanguard.

Lightbringer: vs. [NF exclusive] Demons
Vanguard: vs. Charr
Deldrimor: vs. Destroyers
Azura: in Azuran lands (Think "vs. mobs in Azuran lands", but that doesn't quite make sense, hence current functionality)
Norn: in Norn lands (Think "vs. mobs in Norn lands", see above)

Expanding any of the above should be accompanied by expanding all the others, and does anyone really want to see more of DoA's LB req to join a pug, but everywhere?

EDIT: about the "vs. mobs in Azuran/Norn lands" not quite making sense, I meant it as not making sense how, in terms of game mechanics, it would work, not how it makes sense in a roleplaying perspective. As to the RP side: there is not a shield over the Azuran lands preventing it form working outside, but Azuran territory IS supposed to be practically flowing with magical energy, hance the bonus working there.

Bryant Again · Sep 22, 2007, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

Last time I checked that is what guilds are for.

Naw that's what heroes are for. But when you're still new to the game, and since guilds can't always help you, you turn to a PUG. That's why this could be a problem. It already was with Lightbringer.

fireflyry · Sep 22, 2007, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

So then to simplify...
What you are saying is that the buying and then selling of consumables at jacked up prices to those underprivileged few who don't have access to GWEN is perfectly acceptable. But having the title track that those same few don't have access to is unfair. Because it is on all the time. Where as their money is only meant for the unscrupulous jerks who live to take advantage of noobs. That about right? Like I said what A-net needs to do is remove any title based bonus from the game therefor making the whole experience antiseptic and sterile. No grind for those who wish to do so, it isn't fair to those who don't. And please A-net start selling consumables for 1g at every merchant to stop the pirates from raping noobs because that isn't fair either. It is a game of seperatism and you are speaking of balance, when the only balance you seek is your cash balance at the end of the day. I am not in your party, and I have 100 more HP than you. Tell me, does that change your game. What if I hack it and give myself 1000 more than you. You wouldn't even know and your game wouldn't change. Thus balance is the worst PvE argument ever. It is dumb and pointless to even mention balance in a PvE game. If this was PvP however every point you make would be valid.

What your suggesting is making a select group of players lvl 25 while the rest stay lvl 20.

If you can't comprehend the effect that would have on Guild Wars PvE as a whole I suggest you seriously think about it a little bit harder as to most here the implications are blatantly obvious.

You could farm easier and faster than me therefore getting loot and gear faster.

Unbalanced.

Do repeatable title quests easier and farm other titles easier.

Unbalanced.

Alter your armor, skills and weapons in ways I could'nt.You effectively have 2 Superior runes of Vigor and uber-radiant insignias that are simply unavailable to all players.

Unbalanced.

Have completely different build freedoms and possibilites...heals healing for a percentage of your health or another max titles health would be more powerful, necro sacrifice skills could be cast more often, the +15 on any character would result in totally alternate and powerful builds unable to be accessed outside grind.

Unbalanced.

Etc, etc, etc, etc.

So atm I'm assuming if your in a high-end quest, mission, dungeon you'd have no issue having a few lvl 15 players in the team?Obviously it's something you do all the time?

Yeah right.

Repeatedly bringing consumables and "noobs" into the equation is ridiculous.Who cares if noobs use their consumables and get to lvl 20 quickly.This is not about consumables....a party wide benefit usable by all.It's about allowing a worldwide permanent bonus only usable by a few.

Why is this so hard for you to understand?

Thats a tad different to a consumable that was clearly designed to be used in GWEN.Yes it can be used outside in other campaigns but I'm 100% certain this had been allowed because it's a luxury item outside of GWEN and will in no way effect balance or the game as a whole.I trust the judgement of Anet in this regard over the whining of players who want to be a higher level than everyone else due to title grind and owning GWEN.

I've finished all 3 of the first campaigns on multiple characters and I never needed nor would have used such an item.I hav'nt had -60DP once in all that time...ever.

I have lost count of the amount of -60DP I have had in GWEN and it's pretty obvious that to use such an item outside GWEN is a waste therefore that argument holds little to no water.

Razz Thom · Sep 23, 2007, 12:23 AM // 00:23

that last line is a cop out and you well know it. and where do you get this lvl25 crap? let me guess you are one of the same people who said that eternal aura is unfair. does using it make me lvl 25 too? it lets me run perma melandru which adds - guess what - 100hp! and immunity to all conditions. Oh god Anet has the best judgment right? maybe you should check your argument before you spout off too eh?

fireflyry · Sep 23, 2007, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Haha.

A level 25 character would have permanent +100 health and +15 energy.Thats exactly what your asking for.

The bonus you talk about is skill specific.

Ummm...slight difference and totally incorrect analogy.

Razz Thom · Sep 23, 2007, 12:52 AM // 00:52

dude you're retarded

Bryant Again · Sep 23, 2007, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

let me guess you are one of the same people who said that eternal aura is unfair. does using it make me lvl 25 too? it lets me run perma melandru which adds - guess what - 100hp! and immunity to all conditions. Oh god Anet has the best judgment right?

Can be stripped and is only beneficial to Dervishes. Your comparison would be better if it was title based req instead of Mysticism and it recharged *all* skills. As it stands it misses pretty badly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

maybe you should check your argument before you spout off too eh?

See above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

dude you're retarded

Brilliant A+ argument.