Curse

Coraline Jones · Sep 19, 2007, 04:30 PM // 16:30

The reason why they can't implement these titles outside of Eye of the North is because somebody will figure out how to exploit them to make a billion gold in farming.

Most of the titles in Guild Wars that give bonuses are often limited to their scope on purpose. I.e., Lightbringer only works on demons... and apparently Stone Summit in Slavers' Exile. (You just know that the latter is going to be fixed soon).

The one that has me most concerned is the bonus energy from the Asuran title. If this could be implemented game-wide, the whole Guild Wars game would change completely. Even at Rank 5, you get +10 bonus energy. The title alone gives more energy than a full set of Radiant insignia. At Rank 10, you can have more energy than if you also added two additional Runes of Attunement, which is all you want to add unless you have some crazy build.

That's basically giving everybody a huge, free energy boost for just wearing a title. Then people are just going to slap on other runes and insignia to cover any other weaknesses (like extra armor or health) and the game would collapse pretty quick as everybody starts owning PvE like no tomorrow.

=====

Don't get me wrong...

I totally agree that PvE should feel more in line with other games. I hate how Guild Wars is the only game where "max level" doesn't really feel all that powerful unless you're in the beginning parts of each chapter, where the monsters are all super-low level and have low armor. Compare this to other games where long-time players are rewarded by making them feel like walking gods.

However, Guild Wars is a pretty fragile game. Having people run amuck with near-infinite energy builds is going to split the game wide open.

From what I can tell, ANet more-or-less quietly approves of grinding for titles and rares as this keeps people interested in the game. In fact, there's heavy evidence that ANet will manipulate the market--such as reducing Icy Dragon Sword drops--once farmers started moving in droves into the area to keep the price and demand high.

I think that what you want will probably show up in Guild Wars 2, where they can start over and hopefully fix a lot of problems with the GW1 model. If ANet didn't approve of such a thing, then I don't see why they are now thinking that a max level of 100 (or even higher) is now going to be the new formula. I can absolutely confirm that many people have quit Guild Wars after realizing that they "maxed out" their characters so early in the game. Most of my friends quit this game for that very reason--PvEers don't care about CHALLENGE, they care about being SUPER POWERFUL. Look at every other RPG ever invented and count how many aren't centered around obtaining a high level or some uber-rare weapon.

Phoenix Tears · Sep 19, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

signed ... i see absolutely no imbalancing in this ...

it would help a little bit in Hard Mode, sure, but not so much, as when through this would become HM direct too weak and imbalanced ...

even not with normal mode.

the bit HP you have more through the Norn title, that won't help you much, when you receive within some seconds through several lvl 28 monsters some hits which will hit you all together so much ,that U''ll insta die when u get not protected good enough, the bit HP will ensure only, that you might live maybe 1-2 seconds longer in such fights, this isnt imbalanced.

+9 Energy, wow, thats in a fight where u've to spam quick skills 1-2 skill usages more, very imbalanced -.-
And classes like the Necromancer or the Elementalist have so or so enough base energy and ways to retrieve back energy over time good enough, so the 9 Energy more won't be so imba for any builds, which don't need to spam spells. this wold be much more olny a benefit for melee classes, which have much lesser energy, enabling them to not run so quick out of energy, and also enabling them to play some new nice builds, they would be able to to otherwise, like some builds which rely on skills which cost permanetly like 15-25 energy, thus making builds like W/Me, W/E and W/N making more interesting.

korcan · Sep 19, 2007, 04:57 PM // 16:57

since the game has been around for 2+ years you could argue that pve is already imbalanced by experienced players vs inexperienced players. pugs anyone?

as for the ops suggestion, i dont see how it would "imbalance" pve further so ill sign for it, eventhough, i doubt anet will implement it.

Mordakai · Sep 19, 2007, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coraline Jones

The reason why they can't implement these titles outside of Eye of the North is because somebody will figure out how to exploit them to make a billion gold in farming...

I doubt this is in Anet's calculations, or else they would ban consumables in farming areas. As mentioned, consumables give as much, if not more, benefit than extra energy / health.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coraline Jones

However, Guild Wars is a pretty fragile game. Having people run amuck with near-infinite energy builds is going to split the game wide open.

Wide open into what? A game where W/E actually makes sense? Again, this is PvE, who cares if Johnny can now make another uber build to farm...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coraline Jones

From what I can tell, ANet more-or-less quietly approves of grinding for titles and rares as this keeps people interested in the game. PvEers don't care about CHALLENGE, they care about being SUPER POWERFUL. Look at every other RPG ever invented and count how many aren't centered around obtaining a high level or some uber-rare weapon.

Agreed to a point. There's a difference between challenging and stupidly difficult. And that goes back to what some other people have already said: having more Health or Energy will probably not help those that are failing anyway, their problem is the builds/heros they are using, not how much health they have.

Meh, I suppose it's not worth arguing about, as I doubt it will ever happen.

(Although this thread totally switches the "Vanguard Title is useless" rant on its head. In some ways, the vanguard title is the ONLY useful title, because it's the only one usable outside of GWEN).

Razz Thom · Sep 19, 2007, 05:49 PM // 17:49

How can PvE be imbalanced? Imbalanced against who exactly? I swear you people argue just to have yourselves heard. And don't say "that wouldn't be fun" because you just have to reach down to whatever nether region of your person holds your willpower and DON'T TURN ON THE BONUS IF IT WILL RUIN YOUR FUN!!!!! Seriously, what imbalance? I can already imbalance the mobs with my end game skills and weapons and my heroes are set up the same, so point to the balance issue please.

akh · Sep 19, 2007, 05:59 PM // 17:59

One thing I do not understand is why people complain about title track skills/consumables being imbalanced. Communism lovers ? According to that logic pre-order /bonus items are imbalanced either. Players who own more chapters will always have slight advantage over others. Balanced gameplay means that you can successfully finish the game without being forced to buy expansions.

Divine Freak · Sep 19, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

/notsigned Would create too much imbalance. Not to mention that PvE is already way too easy as is.

Earth · Sep 19, 2007, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by akh

Balanced gameplay means that you can successfully finish the game without being forced to buy expansions.

You can, can't you? And you're not exactly forced to buy expansions. If you don't want them, don't buy them. Noone's pointing a gun at your head.

akh · Sep 19, 2007, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Earth X

You can, can't you? And you're not exactly forced to buy expansions. If you don't want them, don't buy them. Noone's pointing a gun at your head.

Ofcourse you can, that was my point. I'm not the one who is complaining about it.

freekedoutfish · Sep 19, 2007, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coraline Jones

The reason why they can't implement these titles outside of Eye of the North is because somebody will figure out how to exploit them to make a billion gold in farming.

Most of the titles in Guild Wars that give bonuses are often limited to their scope on purpose. I.e., Lightbringer only works on demons... and apparently Stone Summit in Slavers' Exile. (You just know that the latter is going to be fixed soon).

The issue with that arguement is why exactly do we need the extra energy in Asuran territory and why do we need extra health in Norn territory?

Both areas which fall under them races, are easy without those extra status effects! And both territories are relatively small and only have about 3-4 tiny zones in each!

How much time do you spend in Asuran and Norn zones on average while playing GWEN? not enough to make those status effects usefull IMO!

Also if your arguement was right, then whats to stop people creating oober farming builds in Asuran and Norn territories once they max those titles? Those areas could just as easily be farmed as any other, and as a high end area it will give better drops (presumably).

In reality, the Drawf status effect is the only real critical one in GWEN. For quests, dungeons and glints challenge where you face the destroyers! None of the other status effects add any real advantage or feel critical to progressing!

I cant really accept that making the Asuran and Norn status effects, gamewide is going to add any huge advantage to anything outside of GWEN. The fact is that people already have oober farming builds for most sections of GWs and all campaigns.

Extra health and energy isnt going to suddenly make it easier then it already is to farm!

You also have to concider that these Status effects will only be used by lvl20 players with max armor, max weapons and max runes anyway. With a wide selection of normal and elite skills.

Such a player will have already completed most campaigns, or have an edge when playing new campaigns. Surely when a lvl20 char enters factions for the first time, they have an advantage over someone who starts it new?

I just feel that as an expansion (and as nice as new armor, weapons and skills are), we should be able to take more away from GWEN that feels worthy of buying it.

I find it hard to concider GWEN an expansion, because an expansion to me adds content to the entire game. Not just the stand alone bits they add in!

As ive also said myself.... the consumables already give more advantage then the status effects.

Imagine people farming in prophercies, faction or NF loaded with dozens of consumables and candy canes! With an instant ability to remove all DP and protect your team from ciritical hits. Does that not mean rich enough player can become the oober farmer?

You cant argue that Anet is trying to avoid making it easier to farm, when they allow players to use consumables in previous campaigns and allow you to share them with lower level characters!

Imagine a lvl10 player doing missions in ascalon loaded with consumables! They will fly through those missions and quests easily. No worries about DP like the other 90% of players there.

lord dragon · Sep 19, 2007, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Honestly, drop that... its getting old!

Your against this idea, because you would be the kind of person who would force your entire team in FOW to use those status effects and if a person didnt have it or a high enough rank, you would kick them.

That is your idea of inbalancement!

Actually I am the one arguing to take out the skills altogether so there is no imbalance. You are the one arguing to imbalance the game and must be the type of person who would require someone to have a specific skill, ect.

I am the one arguing to keep it skill based. You are the one arguing to keep it GRIND based. Please don't confuse the issue on it with a bunch of words. This is the bottom line on it.

Yichi · Sep 19, 2007, 07:25 PM // 19:25

WOW!!!! this thread a whine fest of horrible players...

The simple fact is that you don't need anything to make this game easier than it already is. You don't need the PvE skills, you don't need consumables, you don't need the title track bonuses. PERIOD!!!!

Fact time: If you're relying on these as your crutch to get you through the game, than you need to rethink how you play the game.

Mordakai · Sep 19, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

WOW!!!! this thread a whine fest of horrible players...

Then don't read it. My biggest pet peeve is whiners whining about whining...

Anyway, this is NOT a whine thread. It's a thread pointing out the inconsistencies in the game. Everyone here agrees that the Title Tracks are not needed... but since they are here, why not make them useful?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

The simple fact is that you don't need anything to make this game easier than it already is. You don't need the PvE skills, you don't need consumables, you don't need the title track bonuses. PERIOD!!!!

Agreed, but that's not the argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

Fact time: If you're relying on these as your crutch to get you through the game, than you need to rethink how you play the game.

Again, agreed. I'd go farther and even argue that if your dying regularly in the game, this won't help a great deal.

But again, you're missing the point.

The point is, why NOT allow these in other areas?

The PvE only skills already unbalance the game, so the "unbalance" argument is moot.

The consumables already give you better bonuses - so that issue is moot.

Again, arguments about being "too easy" or "it's not needed" are missing the point - NONE of this stuff is "needed" - but it's there, so why not Title Track bonuses as well?

Just answer that question: Why Not?

Bryant Again · Sep 19, 2007, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Just answer that question: Why Not?

Why can't we use more than three heroes? P
The answer to this question and to the thread is ???????????????????

ANet works in mysterious ways...

Yichi · Sep 19, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Ok then. Break the titles down by what they are and the only real one that has any merit is the vanguard title.

Asuran title - Edification: Gain x amount of energy while in Asuran territory. I'm sorry but I certainly don't remember an Asuran territory in Factions while running around Kaineg center or in Kamadahn, or in the Gate of Madness....

Dwarven title - (forgot name): gain x amount of damage against destroyers and steal x amount of life. Great. I'm sure that all the destroyers guarding the lich, or shiro, or abbadon will all fall with ease....

Norn title - Heart of the Norn: Gain x amount of health while in norn territory. Super. Ill be sure to use this while helping Jora track down her family in the Mirror of Lyss.... or in the Ring of Fire, bear formed creatures love to go there....

Now do any of you people have a clue? There is no purpose or logic behind any of these working. Hell even the vanguard title only works and has a benefit of being in Hardmode of early ascalon and shouldn't even be allowed to work there since the charr don't control it and it is still considered Ascalon Territory. Other than that this title is worthless in every other campaign except GW:EN.

freekedoutfish · Sep 19, 2007, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord dragon

Actually I am the one arguing to take out the skills altogether so there is no imbalance. You are the one arguing to imbalance the game and must be the type of person who would require someone to have a specific skill, ect.

I am the one arguing to keep it skill based. You are the one arguing to keep it GRIND based. Please don't confuse the issue on it with a bunch of words. This is the bottom line on it.

Lord (or who ever it was) for the 100th time, drop your rediculious notion that the pve only skills create inbalence. I've been through that entire arguement in two other threads. Both of which I left because it just got pathetic.

You only think PvE only skills create inbalancement because you want people to use them in elite zones, or other players do. And if those players dont have the right rank for you or others, they get kicked. PvE only skills do not create inbalancement.

There is no issue about pve only skills, except what you and others are trying to create!!! Understand this for the 100th time - - -
PvE only skills are purely optional and are not critical to gameplay. You do not have to use them at all if you dont want to!

There is no aspect of the entire game, where you cant progress if you dont use a certain pve only skill. Even LB gaze isnt vitually important!

Stop trying to drag your notion of inbalancement in every thread I post, in some sad attempt to start this up again!!!

I give up, people really are just creating this issue of inbalancement themselves by forcing people to use these pve only skills. If you didnt force people to use them and you didnt judge others on their title ranks, then we wouldnt have these issues.

Swift Thief · Sep 19, 2007, 08:16 PM // 20:16

/Unsigned

Not everyone has GWEN.

TabascoSauce · Sep 19, 2007, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Wrong - if you are already steamrolling PvE, then more HP or Power will not change your gameplay experience, you will still steamroll.

And you yourself have said to me in the past that what affects you does not affect me, and vice versa, so if someone else has more HP then it does not affect you.

Does not stand up to logic, and your own past assertions there Yichi. Try another argument.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Yichi · Sep 19, 2007, 08:33 PM // 20:33

understandable it doesn't effect me, but than again it wouldn't effect anyone else that has the title equipped since it would not meet the requirements of said title. Again you either cannot comprehend things, or are just incapable of seeing someone else's point. What point or function do these have? each has their own niche with it that you must be in their own terriotry to be used. Now please feel free to point out to me WHERE else in the Guildwars world is considered norn territory or where else I'm going to find destroyers at and ill retract my statement.

Mordakai · Sep 19, 2007, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

Now do any of you people have a clue? There is no purpose or logic behind any of these working. Hell even the vanguard title only works and has a benefit of being in Hardmode of early ascalon and shouldn't even be allowed to work there since the charr don't control it and it is still considered Ascalon Territory. Other than that this title is worthless in every other campaign except GW:EN.

Yes, you stated the problem quite succinctly. The base title effects are worthless outside of GWEN.... what a waste. Some of us would like for that to change.

Try seeing our point of view.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swift Thief

/Unsigned

Not everyone has GWEN.

So? Were Heros banned from Cantha? Can I not use skills from other campaigns?

Wow, imagine that, buying a product might give you an advantage in an Online Game....

(not that I buy the argument that having an "advantage" in PvE is somehow wrong in the first place...)