Curse

BlackSephir · Oct 23, 2007, 04:19 PM // 16:19

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Originally Posted by Karyuu

Keep titles! They are fun, they give me something to do when I'm done with the main campaigns, and they certainly don't make your game any less enjoyable if you don't want to do them. Don't deceive yourselves

They make your character less efficient, Einstein.

Karyuu · Oct 23, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Thanks, Sherlock! Unfortunately, that "efficiency" is more often than not quite insignificant unless you're a perfectionist on the inside

I've yet to use a single LB skill, and yet to suffer any difficulty because of it. I've yet to desire any GWEN skill above r5 because I'm not doing a satisfactory enough job without it.

What's your argument? "I could be even better if I give in to the grind"? Sure. Will you go "Holy crap, I really sucked before!"? Nuh-uh.

theblackmage · Oct 23, 2007, 04:46 PM // 16:46

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Originally Posted by Alicendre

I don't blame grinding, and if you like it, it's your choice, and you should have the pleasure to do it whenever you want and showing off, that's not my problem.
My problem is that Anet now rewards grind with something USEFUL.

You're missing the point. I don't enjoy grinding for the sake of grinding. In fact, I get tired of it if I do too much of it. However, I do enjoy the sense of achievement attained from polishing off the achievement, in spite of the fact that I may have been grinding to get it.

If you don't want titles to have an in-game effect, fine. But ask for GW2 titles to not have an effect rather than asking for titles to be absent from GW2.

~ Dan ~ · Oct 23, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

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Originally Posted by Bazompora

If there's anyone taking it too far, it is you: you couldn't fire my arguments, so you fire on me instead.

I fire on you, because your being an arse to anyone who disagrees.

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And of course I show people they're wrong, when they are

Show me.

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But I never stated noone else is entitled to an opinion. In fact, you're the one who's attacking me on sharing my opinion.

You never stated that, no. But you attack them based on the opinion "titles should stay". I'm not attacking you because your opinion is different to mine. I'm attacking you because of the way you state it.

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If one decides not to indulge in grinding titles, he's down to 50% succesfull salvage, thus 1 chance on 2 to destroy valuable items and absolutely abominable circumstances for extracting costy bonuses from costy items; maxing the Treasure Hunter title and the Wisdom title gives one 92% succesfull salvage, thus only 1 chance on 12.5 to destroy valuable items! And you call dividing failure by 6 (and a quarter) a tad more?

They deserve that 92% because they put the time in!!! You make such a big deal over a title that is not worth much. No, you don't lose out on much more money. What, you wana salvage that perf gold mod but not risk breaking your req13 axe? Oh shit..

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IT DOES affect gameplay: those who refuse to grind these titles earn less and have to farm more for their "income" (money to pay in-game expenses).
Playing the game means more than only playing missions and quests.
While these titles do not stop me completely (100% gain reduction), they do slow me down (up to 42% and 39% gain reduction, salvage and lockpicks respectively).

The way you describe "earn less" is way different to how it actually is. I have never had issues with salvaging. If i want to keep both the item AND salvage a mod, i use a perfect salvage kit. Loot scaling effected the ability to make money, not titles. End of.

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Oh, I don't plee against the titles being there for grinders; I plee against non-grinders being disadvanted for not enjoying grind.

You know what? Just don't grind. These disadvantages you speak of are very small and pretty pathetic.

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No. I want everyone to be happy, "players" and "grinders", instead of "players" having to be less happy so "grinders" can be considered "happier" than them.

I have never read so much bullshit. You want you to be happy, and you only. If your happy, you don't care whether everyone else is. As long as titles are removed so you get your way, you don't give a dam about how those people feel who want titles to stay.

Alicendre · Oct 23, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

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Originally Posted by theblackmage

If you don't want titles to have an in-game effect, fine. But ask for GW2 titles to not have an effect rather than asking for titles to be absent from GW2.

That's what I've asked, if you read my messages, I want people who like grinding to be able to do it.
But I don't see why a gamer could be a privilegiee because of their game style.

I don't agree with the OP in the fact that there would not be any title in GW2 ; there would be, but not some which give you advantages. The rainbow phoenix is a good example of what kind of things you could get when you max a title : it's beautiful and rare, but if you don't have it, nobody is gonna kick you from a party (or they would be utterly stupid).

theblackmage · Oct 23, 2007, 05:08 PM // 17:08

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Originally Posted by Alicendre

That's what I've asked, if you read my messages, I want people who like grinding to be able to do it.
But I don't see why a gamer could be a privilegiee because of their game style.

My mistake. I must have not noticed this due to the fact that the topic was apparently started to get rid of titles, and that everyone else is either crusading against titles or supporting them. You just happen to be arguing with suppoerters, so I lumped you in with the crusaders.

Karyuu · Oct 23, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

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Originally Posted by Alicendre

I don't agree with the OP in the fact that there would not be any title in GW2 ; there would be, but not some which give you advantages.

I'm totally for that

Titles like Vanquisher and Guardian (and the much less serious Sweet Tooth, Ale Hound, etc.) are just fun to have. Some show your dedication to spending time in the game world, others make people question your mental stability ("You spent WHAT on alcohol..?") but overall, titles like that are harmless rewards for player time.

I'd vote for eliminating anything with any increases in skills or chances, to make people completely happy, but otherwise - lemme keep my fun, dangit :]

BlackSephir · Oct 23, 2007, 05:53 PM // 17:53

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Originally Posted by Karyuu

Thanks, Sherlock! Unfortunately, that "efficiency" is more often than not quite insignificant unless you're a perfectionist on the inside

I've yet to use a single LB skill

And you've yet to use LB title which gives dmg reduction and + dmg ? Hah!

Karyuu · Oct 23, 2007, 06:01 PM // 18:01

No wait, why should I feel a great need to use LB-related titles and skills if my current build and party setup does an awesome job already? I don't feel pressed to grind, although I will anyway since I want another max for my KoBD. Hah indeed... o.O

kthxfail?

Diva Signet · Oct 23, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

I think a stereotype is forming in my head. Anti-titles people are whiners.

Seriously, QQ moar plz. If you don't want to grind and don't want to "suffer", gtfo and go play another game. You bought Guild Wars, titles are a main part of Guild Wars, deal with it. I personally would like titles in GW2 because there are certain ones I think the grind is worth it, but I have no problems with titles that I don't want to grind.

If you don't like titles, don't buy Guild Wars, or Guild Wars 2 as the case may be. You all talk about "how the game used to be" and "how the game is supposed to be", and yet, none of you are devs at Anet. Don't like, go find something else to do. No one is forcing you to spend money on Guild Wars.

Nadia Roark · Oct 23, 2007, 06:29 PM // 18:29

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Originally Posted by BlackSephir

And you've yet to use LB title which gives dmg reduction and + dmg ? Hah!

Is it possible that LB and Lucky were bad ideas, but theat titles in general aren't? I think the success rate for salvaging lockpicks with low-level "lucky" title is completely goddamn horrible. I have similar reservations about LB, but I think people are making too big a deal out of it. Any DoA team worth its salt (e.g., one that knows how to not crater in the opening minutes) realizes that high-rank LB is a bonus rather than a requirement; I've done DoA runs with r1 LB's and no one had a problem with it. If a group requires its members to be a certain level LB, they're probably doing something wrong to begin with.

That said, the argument about LB utility goes out the window once we realize that PvE pugs are usually fail anyway and that you should really probably prefer DoAing with friends or guildies, who probably won't care about your LB rank. The only title that's really borked is Lucky/Unlucky, and that has more to do with the salvage success rates than the fact that it exists in the first place.

But back to the point, right around the time Factions was getting ready to come out, I felt like there wasn't much left for me to do in the game. I had beaten the campaign on two or three characters and gone through the endgame content (well, FoW... my UW groups all tanked within minutes), and was left with a vague feeling of boredom. Sure, I could farm and get a weapon that looked a little prettier than my Runic Hammer, but the idea never really won me over. Titles gave me compartmentalized goals to aim for; new mission tracks, of a sort, to work towards over time. They added direction to a game that was rapidly losing it. Saying that titles "killed" GW is an ignorant and oversimplistic way of looking at things--if it has lost any players or activity over time I would guess Skill Balance would be a much more productive culprit. It may have dulled some peoples' resolve to play the game (especially if they don't actually have any titles, which I imagine most of the people calling for their abolition don't), but based on what I've seen in the last two years I'm going to have to disagree. It's hard to remember now just what kind of effect their introduction had at the time, but it sure seems to me that they've been reasonably successful over time, based on the titles I've seen.

I'm hoping ANet takes movements like this with a grain of salt. We should realize that most players do not have high-end titles, which is why (duh) they're high-end titles. Humanity in general (I'm not picking on anyone here, honest) has a tendancy to overreact to things like this: if someone sets their house on fire by dropping a cigarette in a couch on a porch, we ban couches on porches. If someone flies a couple of planes into the world trade center, we stop letting people take toothpaste and baby formula on planes and invade he Middle East. If people don't like or can't get titles, they strive to eliminate them. I realize the parallels I've drawn are a bit... heavier in character than tiles in a MMORPG, but the point stands: This stupid, knee-jerk BS needs to end.

In general anything that encourages a diverse gameplay experience is a good thing. Removing titles might make you title-less wonders happy, but it will remove many players' motivation to do certain things. Titles give people rewards for playing the game along the parameters under which they chose to play it (unless you're doing something that, somehow, does not contribute to any title track... but that doesn't make it the title's fault for existing if you don't). They should not be removed.

BlackSephir · Oct 23, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

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Originally Posted by Karyuu

No wait, why should I feel a great need to use LB-related titles and skills if my current build and party setup does an awesome job already? I don't feel pressed to grind, although I will anyway since I want another max for my KoBD. Hah indeed... o.O

kthxfail?

So, you don't want + dmg and dmg reduction because you already know how to kill mobs? Wow, I'm impressed.

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Is it possible that LB and Lucky were bad ideas

Add Sunspear, Kurzick/Luxon, and GWEN titles excluding Adventurer of the North.
Explorer is ok since it doesn't give you any advantage.

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Seriously, QQ moar plz. If you don't want to grind and don't want to "suffer", gtfo and go play another game.

Hahaha, yeah, people who expected skill > time from GW, which was supposed to be skill > time should gtfo.

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You bought Guild Wars, titles are a main part of Guild Wars, deal with it.

BWAHAHAHAHAAH
How do you come up with this stuff? Since when titles are 'a main part of GW?
Lulz ;d

Red Sonya · Oct 23, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

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Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Yeah, original game design we've seen in Proph doesn't mean anything.

Replace GW2 with 'another generic MMO, like World of Grindcraft or Grindage'.

Good thing people don't have to put their skill to get pve skills maxed, otherwise they may not be able to get em ;o

See all of that just jealous green with envy verbage from Blacksephir. Too bad Blacksephir it's all here to stay. You might as well quit now nothing is going back to the OLD way of playing I'm happy to say.

Nadia Roark · Oct 23, 2007, 07:47 PM // 19:47

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Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Add Sunspear, Kurzick/Luxon, and GWEN titles excluding Adventurer of the North.

First off, if you are actually trying to convince anyone (and maybe you're not--that's okay I guess) that you're correct, you should try somethine else. The whole "I'm going to just make a post of a handful one-sentence responses that do not clarify my position" tactic has never worked and only serves to further malign the discussion. If you don't have anything productive to offer, stop pretending you do.

Secondly, SS and Kurz/Lux titles don't grant a tremendous degree of functionality, and the inclusion of the faction-based PvE skills was an attempt to breathe life into Alliance Battles. You get a whole one skill per class and none of them are so game-breakingly powerful that you can farm unstoppably with them (at least that I can tell)--so there's no good reason to complain about them on that basis.

Same deal with GWEN titles. Sure, a player who has them (and a high level) will be at an advantage over one who doesn't, but its not a basic gameplay advantage like higher armor or more attribute points. ANet has done a fairly good job of balancing title rewards so that they're not strictly necessary (or overwhelmingly advantageous in most cases), by my estimation. Labor should have its rewards and titles are a good way of providing these rewards.

Karyuu · Oct 23, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

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Originally Posted by BlackSephir

So, you don't want + dmg and dmg reduction because you already know how to kill mobs? Wow, I'm impressed.

Sillyhead. I wrote that I don't feel pressed to grind for the LB title because it doesn't matter for me in the slightest what advantages it gives. I do a great job without it, and I can continue doing a great job without it. So can you. So can every other player in the game. This is where the "This title is optional" statement comes in, because the benefits it gives are insignificant in the scheme of things.

Okay? Okay

Bazompora · Oct 24, 2007, 12:27 AM // 00:27

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Originally Posted by Likelytodie

So, you're telling me how not going for titles taxes people.

Considering Treasure Hunter, Wisdom, Luck, Luxon, Kurzick and Lightbringer, yes!

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Originally Posted by Likelytodie

First off, it doesn't tax you at all the way I see it. It simply adds benefit (a small one) to those who do decide to follow the title. The system is based upon merit. In other words, you get what you work for.

And what way do you see it? From the maxed position?
Nomatter how you turn it, you can not deny these create a gap in efficiency between the casual and the grinder.

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Originally Posted by Likelytodie

Second off, we are talking about titles in GW2, nothing guarantees that the titles in GW2 will have any benefit associated with them. A title needs to be nothing more than that. A way to show, that this is what I did, and something to show where your focus in the game is.

I think we met common grounds.

Titles without discriminating attributions = \/\///\/ \/\///\/ !

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Originally Posted by zamial

btw the rest of what you wrote to my post makes little or no sense at all.

To you it may not have ... but to others it does.

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Originally Posted by Skyy High

stop complaining that someone else gets some text under their name that you don't have.

Ho wait ... I don't! I've no problem with textual decorations for grinding.
I only object to the handfull of titles that discriminatingly tax players.

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Originally Posted by theblackmage

It works the same as in real life. How's automatic taxation for not working optional? (IE this "automatic taxation" is not getting paid) I never was given the option to be exempted from this.

You do realise we're talking a game, not some pseudo-game second life! The purpose of a game is not to make us work, but to maximalise our relaxation.

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Originally Posted by theblackmage

Then why crusade against some players avenue of fun? Is other's fun only important once your fun has been established?

You're being most deceptive here, cutting my phrases in two and taking my words out of context.

I said I want everyone to be happy and that non-grinders should not be made less happy, just so that grinders can be "happier" than them.

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Originally Posted by theblackmage

Also, since when are "grinders" not "players"?

I call non-grinders "players" because they actually play the game, while grinders work the game. However, both groups are gamers.

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Originally Posted by Crowell The Fallen

I enjoy the titles, because the titles related to stuff like mapping, doing the missions in hard mode and normal mode and stuff like that remind me that there are parts of the game that are incomplete. Yeah, anyone can 'pass' the game, but did u pass all of it? Titles are related to achievements. For me, i have not completed the game until i have unlocked all of the achievements.

Rest assured, nobody's falling over Protector, Guardian, Explorer and similar: titles that don't tax players for not achieving in them.

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Originally Posted by Crowell The Fallen

And the best part of the titles is YOU DONT NEED TO DO THEM. The only title that really matters at all in the game is the Hero title, which has got to do with the expirience of the player, which is fair enough if you ask me.

I'd wish! Sadly, that is not the case, as Treasure Hunter, Wisdom, Luck, Luxon, Kurzick and Lightbringer are irrefutable dampers on the casual's game.

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Originally Posted by theblackmage

If you don't want titles to have an in-game effect, fine. But ask for GW2 titles to not have an effect rather than asking for titles to be absent from GW2.

Hey! That's what I've been pleeding for all the time!

However, you were the one who had a problem with that (see above).

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