Curse

Drinky · Oct 20, 2007, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Meat Axe

"just because you get rewards, you don't need the titles to play the game."

Yes, we dont need them, why have them? Isnt your über 15k armor enough? Or your general skills?

"I finished Nightfall without Lightbringer. So I don't consider any title compulsory."

Acctully, you cant. Its not possible.

Exterminate all · Oct 20, 2007, 02:17 PM // 14:17

I hope it will have some titles. Keeps you into the game, and keeps you playing.

If ANET wanted people to play for a little then stop, too bad for them. Because people simply arn't doing it and they can't change it. I say keep titles in the game, to get people playing and having something to do.

Don't get me wrong, I have no clue what GW2 will be like and the gameplay, but I think titles will be great.

Antheus · Oct 20, 2007, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

I say keep titles in the game, to get people playing and having something to do.

The main problem WoW faces, is that their main "title" - the level, is badly hurting not only their player retention, but also severly slowed the acceptance of expansions.

They've already announced various insta-max PvE characters or close to that, to avoid grind. Not mini grind, but 1-month grind.

No, grind is no longer cool, since now alternatives can be offered.

Government Flu · Oct 20, 2007, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Titles are a part of Guild Wars. The only suggestion I would have is to make them a little more accessible, like the reputation titles. The casual gamer can have a lower ranking title, yet still be able to display a title so as not to feel left out, while the more dedicated gamer can advance the title for more prestige.

I understand people complain about titles and how they're all about grinding and no fun but the funny thing is...they're an option, much like the option of whether or not to buy all of the Guild Wars campaigns.

So I hope Guild Wars 2 does have titles. If you don't want to grind, don't grind! Titles aren't necessary for beating a game at all! Even the ones that grant a benefit aren't needed. I completed Nightfall using heroes that used their beginning weapons. I didn't need to farm for R4 LB, and Sunspear gradually came as I played the plotline.

Anyway, that's my post regarding the matter. Titles are just added flair and should be included.

glountz · Oct 20, 2007, 03:15 PM // 15:15

No titles.
Community peer-review is better.
And Antheus doesn't know communism. Just look the Stakhanov legend (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexey_Stakhanov.

Origin · Oct 20, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

You'll be either grinding till you drop, or be inferior. No matter how much Anet claims that won't be the case, this is exactly how it'll work. "No level 70 noobs, 80+ only".

Unfortunately QFT

I've played WoW more than a year, I played another minor MMO games, everywhere it works just like that. Consider yourself useless if you haven't reached level cap. And IF Anet does levels something to replace titles - for example when you reach level 20 you are equal to player who reached level 80, it will work same. You will be considered as a "noob" who hasn't experienced the rest 60 levels and they will pick up rather another level 80 player, although you would have same stats as level 80 players.

I love GW for level cap 20. You just play few hours when game "begins". No more work before you can actually play, as in WoW, Lineage, whatever.

Antheus · Oct 20, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

No titles.
Community peer-review is better.
And Antheus doesn't know communism. Just look the Stakhanov legend (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexey_Stakhanov.

Of course, the wiki generation.

Look through analysis of "5 year plan" economy, and the side effects it caused when it was active, as well as the difference between published propaganda materials, and later, post-USSR analysis of true impact, and why it had devastating effects. Unfortunately, wiki only provides factual list of the years, but not the effects.

Vinraith · Oct 20, 2007, 06:21 PM // 18:21

It's always interesting to me how many posts are about removing choice from the game. Like to play in groups? Try to get heroes removed from the game so that people are forced to group with you. Don't like to work on titles? Remove them from the game so people that do like them can't work on them either. Don't like to actually play through the game with more than one character? Change everything in PvE to an account based mechanic so no one can ever play through the game in a meaningful way with another character again.

It's all about removing options and forcing others to play your way. The GW community isn't just whiny, it's packed with people that are absolutely convinced the way they play is the only way anyone should play, and that what they enjoy is the only thing anyone should enjoy.

Origin · Oct 20, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

It's always interesting to me how many posts are about removing choice from the game. Like to play in groups? Try to get heroes removed from the game so that people are forced to group with you. Don't like to work on titles? Remove them from the game so people that do like them can't work on them either. Don't like to actually play through the game with more than one character? Change everything in PvE to an account based mechanic so no one can ever play through the game in a meaningful way with another character again.

It's all about removing options and forcing others to play your way. The GW community isn't just whiny, it's packed with people that are absolutely convinced the way they play is the only way anyone should play, and that what they enjoy is the only thing anyone should enjoy.

Am I wrong or do I see people who QQ about grinding and titles just becuse they have NOT any other end-game content to do beside it? In case I am right - I think they whine for a reason, because they are forced to play the way other players enjoy. It's hard to make everyone happy, but relying only on grinding titles so players are able to buy their new (reskinned but same as they until now had) armor, is silly.

On the other hand, people doesn't realise that game genre they wanna play depends on something they hate to do - grinding.

I have yet to see a solution that would make at least majority of gamers happy. Game we used to know (back then when there was only Prophecy) was for most VERY enjoyable (including myself), but it was because it didn't attracted so many people as GW do nowadays - and the bigger audience you have, the harder to please them it becomes

Phoenix of War · Oct 20, 2007, 07:36 PM // 19:36

I see alot of good and bad points in this thread.

As to the OP and the threads topic... I disagree that titles should not be in GW2. I have been playing since right after GW first came out... I am one who loved the "old GW" as it was referred to in this thread... but even I think people should have that choice to work for titles. Titles aren't what the downfall of GW is.... I'll get to what IS the downfall in a minute.

And yes, it is a shame that the arenas are abandoned now for only "title-earning" locations of the game. But alas, what can be done now that the damage is done?
--------------------------------------------

Undivine... your post was brilliant. I tip my hat to you.

--------------------------------------------

Vinraith.... I agree with you... however... I don't think heroes and henchmen fall into that category. This is why:
--------------------------------------------

Guild Wars is a MMOG, correct? So it is a massive MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game. It isn't classified as MMORPG since it is as much PvP as it is PvE and other reasons. However, you can actually play the game without needing to ever team up with another person... how is that MULTIPLAYER? Now I agree with Vinraith on what he was saying except about this. The thing is once you give people the option to play solo thru the whole game, you just took the "multiplayer" out of it. You might as well be playing a single-player console game that requires no internet access. Anyone remember .Hack ? It simulated an MMOG yet it was actually single player. Nowadays I find myself feeling like I am playing that 4-part series again when I play Guild Wars.

Henchmen and Heroes should never have been a part of the game. Yes it would take a bit more time to make parties, but let me say why I think this is better.

I have played WoW (though only a month because I despised the cartoonish graphics). I have played Guild Wars since right after release. I have also played FFXI (Final Fantasy 11 Online) the whole time I've played Guild Wars (somewhere around 2 and a half years I think). In FFXI there are no "henchmen" of any sort. You MUST find other players to do anything. There are alot of solo quests (I would say at least 90% of quests if not more can be solo'd in FFXI). But all missions in the game require a party effort (and most will push a full party to it's limits). You shout for the mission you are doing in major cities and form parties and go do them.

I have never had a problem finding people to do a mission in FFXI. Your linkshell (same as a "guild" in GW) is there to help you with them, as well as thousands of other people that are on the same mission. Sure it may of taken me a few hours to get a full party for a few missions, but don't you have the same problem in Guild Wars with some missions you just couldn't seem to beat with just henchies/heroes?

Without henchmen and heroes, people will actually have to play a MULTIPLAYER GAME, which is in FACT what Guild Wars is and what they claimed to be selling since DAY ONE. Now you can argue your right to "play solo", but the fact is you are talking about playing solo in a MULTIPLAYER game. If you want to play solo games, why are you in a MMOG ? If you are so antisocial, stick to single player games.

Without henchmen and heroes, you would see the following improvements:

1) There would actually be plently of HUMANS to do missions with through mutual need.

2) The overall skill of players would improve as they would have to learn to play their role in a party better than they do now.

3) You would have more people with "titles" due to having to go with other HUMANS to do things instead of all hero/henchie parties. This would reduce the "haters" as well as everyone would get more titles by team efforts instead of solo play. This thread may not of came to exist if that was the case.

4) Guildmates would mean more to a player. Once again comparing to FFXI, my linkshell mates are all close and have done tons of missions, farms, boss kills, and other stuff together and there is a sense of "comradery" there that I do not find much of anymore in guilds in GW. The few guilds in GW that actually have that comradery are mostly PvP guilds with members having the exact same interest. There are few PvE guilds that have that type of bond amongst it's members.

5) Due to a mutual need of assistance between fellow players, the overall treatment of other players would improve for the most part. This is definitely witnessed if you play both games (FFXI and GW). In FFXI you RARELY see people flaming each other in shout, talking trash to each other. It does happen (as in ALL online games, but it is rare). In Guild Wars I can go to any "major city" and sit there for 10 minutes and I'm GUARANTEED to see someone flame someone else or just be outright rude to fellow players.
------------------------------------------------------------

Now I'm sure there is some childish jerk that will post a reply "then why don't you just go play FFXI then". I love immature ignorance in people these days so let me thank you in advance for your idiotic post.

I shouldn't have to. I (and all of you) bought Guild Wars under the illusion it was a MMOG and I would be playing with other people. Yet I find myself having to use heroes and henchmen for most things. Why? Because many people chose that option, leaving few that still needed to do that mission or quest so now they are forced to take hero/henchie parties as well.

I read the words "Guild Wars community" and I have to laugh now. there USED to be a community... but what exactly is a community? I believe this definition is the one that comes to mind for me:

com·mu·ni·ty Pronunciation[kuh-myoo-ni-tee]
–noun, plural
3. a social, religious, occupational, or other group sharing common characteristics or interests and perceived or perceiving itself as distinct in some respect from the larger society within which it exists.

notice the SHARING part... if you are playing the game solo what are you sharing? What community are you being a part of? How are you making a contribution as a player to a MMOG ?

-----------------------------------------------------------

In close, I say leave the titles, kill the heroes and henchmen.

Oh, and one last thought: For those of you I see bashing new players and calling people n00bs... you are the worst kind of player to any online game. Instead of getting your kicks on picking fun at those players, why not assist them? Why not guide them? Why not answer their question with the same effort it took to type "OMGz0rs what a fk'n n00b LMAO OMG OMG LMAO". At some point you were new. Even if your response is simply to point them to the Wiki where they can find their answers, isn't that more mature and decent thing to do then to respond with "OMG n00b" and make yourself look like an immature jerk?

Origin · Oct 20, 2007, 07:58 PM // 19:58

As I tend to agree with you about the henchmen/heroes, I would like to point out some thoughts.

First, if you look back, when the worlds were splitted within America/Europe and Asian continents, it would be impossible to some people find groups if there were playing off peak times and still they would like to have option to visit their home districts sometimes.

Secondly, GW world is built different, open world in WoW like games are built to be soloable. It would mean to redesign NM world to be able solo certain quests (if I understand right you would like certain quest to be soloable and missions should be only for real parties). This wouldn't be problem, as HM came into game, but without it - once you beat the game, it's wasted world space.

And to the third, GW hadn't so much players in beginning, and it would have been painful to progress through game.

But generally yeah, I agree withyou, I sometimes feel I play offline RPG just with ability to sell loot I get to real players and IM built into game.

Vinraith · Oct 20, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Guild Wars is a MMOG, correct?

No, actually it's not, but even if it were that wouldn't mean people are forced to play it MP. If it did, I'd never have bought it in the first place. Any game that requires players to play with each other is of no interest to me, and I think you'll find that the market for such a game is quite small. The most successful online games all offer huge amounts of solo content (look at WoW, which most people play alone for 90% of the game). There are certainly niche titles that work the way you want (FFXI, as you cite, presumably works that way) but most folks that game aren't really interested in playing with strangers. They want to spend their free time alone or playing with friends, not trying to sort through a crowd of children, assholes, and incompetents to find some nice folks to spend their time with.

If you want to play a game where people are forced to group with you, kindly do so. This is not that game, it was never intended to be that game, and hopefully any future iterations of it will not be that game. If they are, you may find some folks to play with, but I'll be off playing games that actually cater to my gaming preferences. I suspect very, very strongly that the majority of the player base will go with me.

GW2 is currently planned to not have heroes and hench, but it's also planned to be fully soloable. Anet's fully aware of what percentage of their user base plays the game solo and small group (that means a couple of people and heroes) at least some of the time and isn't about to commit financial suicide by casting that portion of the player community out.

Phoenix of War · Oct 20, 2007, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Origin

As I tend to agree with you about the henchmen/heroes, I would like to point out some thoughts.

First, if you look back, when the worlds were splitted within America/Europe and Asian continents, it would be impossible to some people find groups if there were playing off peak times and still they would like to have option to visit their home districts sometimes.

Secondly, GW world is built different, open world in WoW like games are built to be soloable. It would mean to redesign NM world to be able solo certain quests (if I understand right you would like certain quest to be soloable and missions should be only for real parties). This wouldn't be problem, as HM came into game, but without it - once you beat the game, it's wasted world space.

And to the third, GW hadn't so much players in beginning, and it would have been painful to progress through game.

But generally yeah, I agree withyou, I sometimes feel I play offline RPG just with ability to sell loot I get to real players and IM built into game.

You know what's funny though? Back when it was just Prophecies it was so much easier to find other people to do missions. Back then if you suggested taking a henchie alot of ppl were like "Eww no thanks" because it was easy to get a full party. Now you will find alot of the missions empty with little or no players in it to team up with. The game was much better back then than what it has become.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

No, actually it's not. If it were, I'd never have bought it in the first place. Any game that requires players to play with each other is of no interest to me, and I think you'll find that the market for such a game is quite small. The most successful online games all offer huge amounts of solo content (look at WoW, which most people play alone for 90% of the game). There are certainly niche titles that work the way you want (FFXI, as you cite, presumably works that way) but most folks that game aren't really interested in playing with strangers. They want to spend their free time alone or playing with friends, not trying to sort through a crowd of children, assholes, and incompetents to find some nice folks to spend their time with.

If you want to play a game where people are forced to group with you, kindly do so. This is not that game, it was never intended to be that game, and hopefully any future iterations of it will not be that game. If they are, you may find some folks to play with, but I'll be off playing games that actually cater to my gaming preferences. I suspect very, very strongly that the majority of the player base will go with me.

Funny, i don't have to sort through incompetents and children in FFXI because they all seem to play Guild Wars lol. I'm sure the subscription fee has a lot to do with it.

You say this is not that type of game...
If that were the case then why make it online with other players? If that were the case why even have guilds? Much less alliances? Why even have a party option with other players? Obviously their intentions were teamwork between players. If they were releasing a game just for solo play why is it they nerf EVERY chance they get any solo builds? Why have they mutilated the skills on my 55 monk for 2.5 years now? Obviously the game wasn't intended for me to be able to solo everything. Perhaps you DID buy the wrong game.

Vinraith · Oct 20, 2007, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix of War

You say this is not that type of game...
If that were the case then why make it online with other players? If that were the case why even have guilds? Much less alliances? Why even have a party option with other players? Obviously their intentions were teamwork between players. If they were releasing a game just for solo play why is it they nerf EVERY chance they get any solo builds? Why have they mutilated the skills on my 55 monk for 2.5 years now? Obviously the game wasn't intended for me to be able to solo everything. Perhaps you DID buy the wrong game.

You seem to think that the ability to play solo means "they were releasing the game just for solo play." I never claimed that, that's just silly. Solo play is an option, PUGing is an option, playing with a small group of friends or guildies is an option. So we come back to my first post in this thread, why are you so desperate to ruin other people's gaming experiences by taking away options they enjoy? If other people being able to play the way they want (ie not with you) bothers you so much, I suggest that YOU bought the wrong game.

Phoenix of War · Oct 20, 2007, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

You seem to think that the ability to play solo means "they were releasing the game just for solo play." I never claimed that, that's just silly. Solo play is an option, PUGing is an option, playing with a small group of friends or guildies is an option. So we come back to my first post in this thread, why are you so desperate to ruin other people's gaming experiences by taking away options they enjoy? If other people being able to play the way they want (ie not with you) bothers you so much, I suggest that YOU bought the wrong game.

No, PUG play is no longer an option in many missions because people just hero/henchie it now not because they WANTED to or chose that option, but because that was their ONLY option directly caused by so many doing it "solo".

Also, I know exactly what game I bought seeing as how I have been playing from the beginning of GW release. The game we play now is NOT the same game by many definitions. So unless you have been playing since then and even know what I am talking about, you probably don't even get my point.

New players are forced to do missions and such with all henchmen parties in prophecies many times because so many are off with hero/henchie parties leaving no one for them to party up with. In the other campaigns they get heroes, but that is only some improvement over all henchmen. That doesn't sound like an option to me for a game that is "multiplayer". That sounds like forced solo play to me.

As for myself I can do them with heroes and henchies. I've gone thru Prophecies campaign with so many characters I can probably do it in my sleep. The other two I don't know as well but I can do them with henchie/hero parties too. The point is I shouldn't be forced to do so in a multiplayer online game with thousands upon thousands of other characters. It doesn't bother me as much as I am skilled at this game, but what about the new guy?

Bazompora · Oct 20, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15