Curse

lyra_song · Nov 15, 2007, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohara

wow you must live under a rock then. people complained SO much about the team build that caused all these problems - that's the reason they changed the amount of heroes you could take into HA from 4 to 2. that's also the reason soul reaping was nerfed in the first place.

there are many variations of this build, but here it is - http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Te...ainted_Heroway

picture this.

you're getting your face bashed in by 2 (usually 3) rangers w/hammers, 2 (usually 3) pets and you have barbs on you, your whole team has -10 degen from conditions and hexes, you're knocked down in savannah heat, there's minions w/death nova everywhere, and you can't kill anything because the necros (which you can't hit, because they stand in wards) have INFINITE ENERGY from spirits and pets, and all your are teammates dying in one big bomb because of eoe, aoe, and rising bile.

that sound balanced to you?

sorry, but making a few pve mm's cry over pet corpses is NOTHING compared to the torture pvp'ers have been dealing with for the past year. it was just too good of an exploit. if you thought it was good in bp groups...imagine how good it was when exploited by skillful players in pvp.

who gives a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if it doesn't make sense logically. this is a game where we shoot fireballs out of our hands and make ghosts rise up and throw globs of green goo at our enemies ffs. balance is more important than any rationalization about how dead cats can be turned into zombies.

What about the wards? Why not make wards NOT OVERLAP.
LoD is also a significant part of this build, hence its been nerfed.
And the aoe hexes
How about the fact that ritualist secondaries are better at healing than ritualist primaries.

Sounds to me like theres a lot problems.

Instead of examining all the pieces of this good synergetic (but boring) build, we get a nerf to one or two pieces of it, thinking thats gonna fix the problem. Bandaid nerf.

----------------------------

Why do people keep bringing up the bullshit about how we shoot fireballs from our fingers as illogical? In real life its illogical. But this isn't real life. This is Guild Wars.

In the rules of the game, the fireball cannot pass through wall and requires line of sight since its a projectile attack.
All projectile attacks follow this rule. Wands, spears, bows, or projectile spells.

All fleshy creatures in the game leave corpses. Animals are fleshy creatures. Pets are animals. Therefore, pets must leave corpses. Thats an established rule of the game.

Changing it and making an exception specifically only to player pets is arbitrary and illogical.

lakatz · Nov 15, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elrien Silentfoot

[skill]Barrage[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Warmonger's Weapon[/skill][skill]Lightning Reflexes[/skill][skill]Troll unguent[/skill][skill]flesh of my flesh[/skill][skill]comfort animal[/skill][skill]charm animal[/skill]
Mks mask, sup mks rune, sup vig, minor rune for other ranger skills.

Attributes are : 12MKS, 7BM, 9EXP, 8WS, 10CHA. You can then add 2 to BM, 1 to MKs or 1 to CHA.

If you prefer, you can drop the res and/or stance for pet attacks, and the troll unguent (as well as WS) if you trust your monk.

Holy cow! Where'd you get all those attribute points??? That's a lot more than I have (and I'm ascended, of course). If I had that humongous amount of attribute points, I could make Splinter/Barrage work with a pet too (without it being watered down).

Matt_Night · Nov 15, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

this particular nerf doesn't affect me directly in any serious way, since even when i play my R i rarely use pet, still i don't see any point in it...
Nerf for the sake of it? That's FTL.

Bankai · Nov 15, 2007, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Oh wow. So many people are saying "It doesn't make sense".

It's a game. So many things don't make sense, it's unbelievable. And yet, this time it interferes with your farming builds, so it's suddenly bad.

lyra_song · Nov 15, 2007, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

Oh wow. So many people are saying "It doesn't make sense".

It's a game. So many things don't make sense, it's unbelievable. And yet, this time it interferes with your farming builds, so it's suddenly bad.

Stop repeating and come up with something relevant to counter the point.

Theres many gameplay elements with specific rules in the game. Rules that has been taught in the game.

Melee attacks
Projectile Attacks
Aoe Attacks
Enchantments
Hexes
Conditions
Spirits
Traps
Wards
Glyphs
Signets
IAS
Speed Buffs
etc.

When Anet comes along and adds an EXCEPTION to a rule they created, specifically one meant to balance a PvP build, that has MANY parts about it that need fixing, it pisses me off.

Edit: Universal rule changes, like capping speed buffs, capping IAS, capping armor levels, Soul Reaping and such changes are much different balancing adjustments, since they are UNIVERSAL and affect all players equally.

This is not a universal change. Its targeted at a specific build isntead at something that can be adjusted at the source of the problem, being Soul Reaping.

MithranArkanere · Nov 15, 2007, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Does make sense when you raise bones from a plant corpse? Or from a jellyfish or crustaceans? Or from an insect or spider?

No.

They made the change to TEST the balance.

"My build no longer works" is not a reason to revert it.

Try more builds.

Bankai · Nov 15, 2007, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Stop repeating and come up with something relevant to counter the point.

Theres many gameplay elements with specific rules in the game. Rules that has been taught in the game.

So you're saying that if you create a game, and after playing for some time you think that one rule should be changed, you aren't allowed to?

Mind that most of today's sports have had a lot of fine-tuning.

Also, I haven't posted in this thread before, and was too lazy to read a lot of the posts. And it IS relevant, since half the people posting in this thread (from what I've seen) are only saying "It doesn't make sense".

lyra_song · Nov 15, 2007, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

So you're saying that if you create a game, and after playing for some time you think that one rule should be changed, you aren't allowed to?

Mind that most of today's sports have had a lot of fine-tuning.

Read the part of my post where i mentioned rule changes like the IAS cap, the armor cap, Soul Reaping changes etc.

Done reading? Good.

Now what makes those kinds of rule changes different from this one?

Read the post, i answered that question.

edit: I hope you understand theres a difference between a good (ie: acceptable) change vs a bad (ie:unacceptable) change. I actually wanted the SR nerf. I want a Leadership nerf. I want an Expertise change.

I think its stupid to make a change that doesn't fix the cause of problem, but rather just treats the symptom.

Quote:

Also, I haven't posted in this thread before, and was too lazy to read a lot of the posts. And it IS relevant, since half the people posting in this thread (from what I've seen) are only saying "It doesn't make sense".

It is irrelevant because I've already outlined the reasoning behind the argument early on the thread. You have not outlined any reasoning or fact or even anything beyond the whole "change your build" bullshit which has been repeated on this thread. Your post is useless and adds nothing to the conversation since people have said it already and they also have not said anything relevant that counters the argument.

MithranArkanere · Nov 15, 2007, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Another one repeating the mantra of bullshit.

Plants/Jellyfish/Insects/Spiders are fleshy creatures.
All fleshy creatures leave corpses.

Are those creatures immune to things that non-fleshys are immune to?

Why are pets exception to this rule, when they are animals?

To TEST how will be things that way.
Can't you understand the meaning of 'TEST'?

lyra_song · Nov 15, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

To TEST how will be things that way.
Can't you understand the meaning of 'TEST'?

You know what you do to tests right? You give answers.

And some of us have given our answers to the test already.

A resounding "NO". Thats why we're here. Thats why we're posting.

edit: If you are fine with the change, thats fine with me. But you better have more to bring to the argument than "Change your build" or "It doesnt hurt you that much", because to me, thats not the point at all.

I wanna hear you justify breaking the rules of the game.

Its about game mechanics and consistency. Breaking a rule of the game to "fix" something that never broke a rule of the game (pets leaving corpses is not an exploit) is STUPID.

Bankai · Nov 15, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Read the part of my post where i mentioned rule changes like the IAS cap, the armor cap, Soul Reaping changes etc.

Done reading? Good.

Now what makes those kinds of rule changes different from this one?

Read the post, i answered that question.

edit: I hope you understand theres a difference between a good (ie: acceptable) change vs a bad (ie:unacceptable) change. I actually wanted the SR nerf. I want a Leadership nerf. I want an Expertise change.

I think its stupid to make a change that doesn't fix the cause of problem, but rather just treats the symptom.

Whoops, I actually missed that part.

Still, this is no difference at all. The attack cap was implemented because of IWAY as well. The reason why this is a bad nerf and the other ones are good is really bad.

lyra_song · Nov 15, 2007, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

Whoops, I actually missed that part.

Still, this is no difference at all. The attack cap was implemented because of IWAY as well. The reason why this is a bad nerf and the other ones are good is really bad.

The attack cap affected IWAY as well as all IAS skills. It didnt just affect IWAY. If it affected just IWAY, then it would be a bad change.

Saphatorael · Nov 15, 2007, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

You know what you do to tests right? You give answers.

And some of us have given our answers to the test already.

A resounding "NO". Thats why we're here. Thats why we're posting.

The answer isn't expected from ranting in forums. It's expected from how people adapt in the game itself. And it seems to me a lot of people are too lazy to change a few skills on their bar or even think of playing something different than they usually do. How lame is that?

It's as if you can pick between taking the bike or bus (for free) to school, and suddenly, you have to pay for the bus trips. Get a damn bike and cope with it, or are you too lazy to even paddle a bit with your feet?

lyra_song · Nov 15, 2007, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saphatorael

Thing is, the answer isn't expected from ranting in forums. It's expected from how people adapt in the game itself. And it seems to me a lot of people are too lazy to change a few skills on their bar or even think of playing something different than they usually do. How lame is that? It's as if you can pick between taking the bike or bus to school, and suddenly, you have to pay for the bus trips. Get a damn bike and cope with it.

Another one of you to spout off with the "change your build" bullshit.

THIS ISN'T ABOUT THE BUILD.

How many times must we dance this dance before someone comes up with some sort of actual argument against my posts?

Bankai · Nov 15, 2007, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

The attack cap affected IWAY as well as all IAS skills. It didnt just affect IWAY. If it affected just IWAY, then it would be a bad change.

Can you think of any other way to get over the attack cap, bar Aggressive refrain?

Besides, necroes have been used a lot more with thumpers which was always quite strong.

Inde · Nov 15, 2007, 04:53 PM // 16:53

calm down...

Saphatorael · Nov 15, 2007, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Another one of you to spout off with the "change your build" bullshit.

THIS ISN'T ABOUT THE BUILD.

Actually, it is. Get rid of Charm Animal, put something else?

lyra_song · Nov 15, 2007, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saphatorael

Actually, it is. Get rid of Charm Animal, put something else?

That still doesn't change the fact that the pet corpse change is a bad change.

Ignoring the matter or adapting to it doesn't make it go away or make it better.

Inde: sorry, im getting excited.

Saphatorael · Nov 15, 2007, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

That still doesn't change the fact that the pet corpse change is a bad change.

Why, tell me from a balance perspective, not a physiological one, since we don't have fireballs shooting from our arms in real life either. You're the one lacking real arguments here, and we don't need arguments to prove our points at all, we just need to prove you wrong... though you've yet to argument anything, actually.

Also, I lol'd at your info there: "Character: Welcome to GW Guru. Have a seat and popcorn and watch the QQ show!"

*sits back and reads your posts*

Elrodien · Nov 15, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

\not signed

Its a fix that stops the extremely broken Heroway build that has the ability to beat teams much better skill-wise than you and your silly hero pals.

Rest in Pieces Heroway.