Curse

Nuclfus · Nov 17, 2007, 08:56 PM // 20:56

/notsigned

Ursanway is non-profession specific and PvE only. I tend to favor nerfs to avatars and massive earth-tanking over reasons concerning balance issues or what I think profession roles should be in combat, but UB doesn't really involve either of these.

PvE skills are meant to be a bit stronger than your average skills. And in keeping with Guild Wars trying to avoid emphasis on grind in gameplay, I think it makes sense that they are powerful even at lower ranks so players don't have to spend so much time farming a title in order to use it. As a result, just about any PvE skill you name is quite powerful at its max title rank. Then in the case of UB we just factor that elite slot, and I think it's no wonder it's as strong as it is.

That being said if you were to make Ursan Blessing non-elite, I'd say a nerf is definitely called for.

Diddy bow · Nov 17, 2007, 08:59 PM // 20:59

/notsigned

I like what this skill did for PvE, it made farming less like trying to get into a HA group, as in 8 attribute insted of 9 = kick. Doing it the "proper" way is still faster but this way you can get through these kind of areas without being one single build. The one problem i have that its title attached, its the new eliteism atm. Remove that and its all good ^^.

It deos what, about .00000040081% of the damage the 55 monk did to pve.

MithranArkanere · Nov 17, 2007, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Yeah. Pain Inverter can kill in one casting almost many enemies in one sigle o their casts. But it can be learned by anyone. It's not (I have to be a monk to be able to use this build)

Anyone can use it. That's why the only change should be to make it very similar for all professions.

Jackita · Nov 17, 2007, 10:37 PM // 22:37

/notsigned

Cause you can take a break of your profession and be a Teddy Bear for a while

Like a Monk i love Ursan Blessing because i can play a ofensive class with a nice dps (smithing prayers suck).

I enjoy heal and protect but sometimes is funny play something diferent.

Longasc · Nov 17, 2007, 11:27 PM // 23:27

The bear form should be fun and strong, definitely.

Solely relying on one broken skill to have (questionable) "fun" is shortsighted and ruining the game.

The many Assassins and Mesmers posting here should realize that they are no longer Assassin and Mesmers, but their "diversity" and class characteristics get reduced to an abomination with 5 skills only that works everywhere and requires no coordination.

Toning down this skill so that it does not get killed, but making it less brainless and superior, this is my intention.

HawkofStorms · Nov 17, 2007, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud5646

Ursan blessing is a great idea that lets void classes actually get groups.
I, as an assassin player, love it.

/signed

First of all, if you are grouping with people thinking assassins are bad... they need to wake up and smell the roses.

2nd of all, it does cause discrimination. Instead of having discrimination between classes, Ursan blessing discriminates against people who don't have GW:EN/don't have a high Norn rank. An outstanding player in DoA for instantance will be unable to join most groups if he doesn't have GW:EN now.

thedeadlyassassin · Nov 17, 2007, 11:57 PM // 23:57

/notsigned

If you want a challenge, don't use it. It seems you're getting a bit jealous because now more people can do DoA and UW. And just so you're aware, a ton of people could do UW and DoA before this skill

HawkofStorms · Nov 18, 2007, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedeadlyassassin

/notsigned

If you want a challenge, don't use it. It seems you're getting a bit jealous because now more people can do DoA and UW. And just so you're aware, a ton of people could do UW and DoA before this skill

Lol. People thinking doing UW is a challenge.

No... trust me we aren't jealous. If you want to play in elite areas, you should be good enough in this game to do so without having to rely on gimmicks.

pumpkin pie · Nov 18, 2007, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens

People aren't trying to deprive others of power. Its all about balance. Last week every time I went to ToA to get into a FoW group the place was filled to the brim with people who only wanted to use UB. I don't have GWEN and will not for a week or two and so now I can't get into a group because of it. UB isn't as good as you'd think. Not because it isn't powerful but because most people don't know how to coordinate their attacks and thats what you have to do to get the most out of UB. Alot of the better players have taken to UB farming and the rest of us are left with jerks and idiots. Just yesterday I finally got into a FoW group and our tank ragequitted because no one would sell him a key.

I don't like dealing with foolish people but I refuse to farm using UB(when I finally get GWEN).

I don't want UB to be nerfed into uselessness b/c its a cool skill but its bonuses need to be adjusted a bit to give the rest of use non-UB people a chance.

How one player deal with other players isn't a balance question, hey I've been trying to HA forever, and because I started the game late, althought I am 100% sure, I am as good as any regular HA players, off course I am not comparing myself to the rank 12s, but do I get a group easily because I don't have rank? NO. Do I ask for a nerf to HA? NO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Lol. People thinking doing UW is a challenge.

No... trust me we aren't jealous. If you want to play in elite areas, you should be good enough in this game to do so without having to rely on gimmicks.

Players should not have to be "good enough" to enjoy a game.

The Lurch · Nov 18, 2007, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Again, being an assassin, this skill is very useful. The people in this game are extremely biased against the assassin, and are completely unaware of this ignorance. I have seen assassins tank. I HAVE tanked for a party omn an assassin. IN the FOW. Of course, I was using critical agility and critical defenses, but I was still tanking.
The Ursan and Volfen blessings help me get into groups and other harder missions/areas/dungeons. I like going with real peoplse more than I do henchmen, and the blessings have allowed it..

BTW what does QFT stand for again? I seem to have forgotten.

Star Gazer · Nov 18, 2007, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Instead of having discrimination between classes, Ursan blessing discriminates against people who don't have GW:EN/don't have a high Norn rank. An outstanding player in DoA for instantance will be unable to join most groups if he doesn't have GW:EN now.

you mean the elitest that would not let the other characters go in without LB8? umm...ok? QQ

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

If you want to play in elite areas, you should be good enough in this game to do so without having to rely on gimmicks.

PERFECT! A solution to the removal of HA!!

HawkofStorms · Nov 18, 2007, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

you mean the elitest that would not let the other characters go in without LB8? umm...ok? QQ

PERFECT! A solution to the removal of HA!!

No I mean the player who is good. Player skill > then grind. UB is a grind based skill that allows you to cruise control through areas where most players with good ability could do without it. LB r8 isn't required for DoA either by the way. For example... bonder monks in DoA are out of aggro range and don't deal any damage at all (thus gaining no benefit from the title). Several builds in DoA (like the tank) can get by without any LB rank at all... or like rank 2 which you get just by beating the game... which you need to do to do DoA anyways.

And yes, you should have to be "good enough" to enjoy the ELITE areas of a game. You don't just hit "start game" and win. When playing an NCCA football game as a dynasty, you won't win a national championship playing with Eastern Michgan your first time through on hard mode. You can still enjoy the game elsewhere. You can still play a large part of it. But to play tough areas, you should have some skill. Otherwise, the game doesn't become fun. When a game has no challenge and no possibility of failure, it becomes boring and stale. Ultimate challenges = Ultimate rewards and sense of fullfilment. No challenge, no reward.

And stop using PvP examples (I think the PvP rank system is busted too, it should be an ELO win/losses ranking system, not static as it is), they are unrelated examples to the topic.

pumpkin pie · Nov 18, 2007, 07:16 AM // 07:16

I thought this is about balancing the game, but since you want to use "good enough" as the basis of this argument, am I correct to assume that basically you are just jealous because now all the players you deemed to be not "good enough" get to play in the area you think need to be "good enough" to play?

wanders if Original Poster and those who agrees to the nerf of Ursan Blessing still uses Ursan Blessing to Farm/play the game..

=HT=Ingram · Nov 18, 2007, 07:37 AM // 07:37

/signed for something, but not what you think.

Personally I think Ursans is fine, I have used it, Never liked it, and will never use it in my builds. Elites are to valuable to sacrifice for a spirit form (thats not a true spirit form but thats another subject).

But there are a few things that are logical to change. All attacks should be Melee range, weapons should become unusable while in Spirit form. And If your in spirit form you should not be able to pickup drops or interact with chests as a human would. While in spirit form your agro bubble should be smaller.

The Ursan elite should also not be as indefinite as it is atm. it should have a fixed effect time... and a MUCH longer recharge once back in human form.

These are nerfs that do not change the fundamental of the skill yet adds things to it that the nerf takes away. While maintaining a logical pattern for Melee Spirit skills for the future. IE GW2.

I want to add this however. A nerf is really Not needed for this or any other PvE skill. That was the point of making PvE skills in the first place... So that they would never again be subject to unjust targeting from PvP ranters about some balance issue that is inconsequential to PvE players to begin with. The only reason to nerf this at this point is 1 of 2 reasons...

1: anet just wants to screw with us yet again in which case the nerf will be so bad no one will ever use it again for any reason like Prot bond.

Or
2: The skill becomes the preferred build in PvE and only those that use it will get accepted into pugs.

Which in effect makes 12 classes become all the same thing... In such a case I have to agree a nerf would be needed to be sure the variety of classes and skills remain in the game and it does not just become Ursan or nothing for Pugs...

I dont want to see it nerfed to uselessness, but I think a Mild nerf may be in order to dull its over popularity atm... BEFORE the farm bots start over exploiting the skill and using it to farm gold for resell.

Perhaps a simple effect like that on spirits... only 1 ursan type spirit allowed in a group at a time. If someone else goes into bear form it makes the other a man instantly as it would if someone cast a 2nd Ritualist or ranger spirit of the same type...

Sleeper Service · Nov 18, 2007, 07:44 AM // 07:44

just fyi you do not need to be a particular class for UW as long as you are part of a balanced team.

pre "nerf" DOA (although doa was incredibly broken imo an should have NEVER come out like that in the first place) required ultra specific team builds and resulting in an unbalanced team. Now however its at least possible to do it normally.

both are elite areas, and elite requires some kind of skill prerequisite, not some ultimate grind skill that bacteria could obtain.

Zahr Dalsk · Nov 18, 2007, 07:56 AM // 07:56

/not signed

Because many people do not recognize the value of Assassin and Ritualist in PvE, so it's one of few ways that we can get in UW/FoW groups without waiting hours to find a non-ignorant group that understands our value.

That or give Assassin more durability-type skills and more AoE attacks like Death Blossom, and rework Ritualist Spirits to be much more like necromancer minions in movement and number and give us more AoE channeling as well as hex removal.

CyberNigma · Nov 18, 2007, 08:46 AM // 08:46

/notsigned but have a mitigation for Hard Mode if it's going to be changed anyway

I say that if someone is going to change it at all, change the game in a way that makes Ursan Blessing either less powerful or less useful in Hard Mode (only). Quit trying to mess with Easy Mode and let the skill be adjusted in Hard Mode (where people really do look for more challenge). Some people really just want to plow through things in Easy Mode after a day at work.

Understand that even by nerfing it, you are still going to be discriminated against. You may have to roll with an ObFlesh build instead. You are never, ever going to be able to join selective pugs with a build of your own choosing, for any class, for any reason. If you want to run with your own builds, you will have to find a casual pug that doesn't care about builds too much or else run with H/H. GW has been this way since the beginning.

BlackSephir · Nov 18, 2007, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

/not signed

Because many people do not recognize the value of Assassin and Ritualist in PvE, so it's one of few ways that we can get in UW/FoW groups without waiting hours to find a non-ignorant group that understands our value.

What? How the hell do you think people will recognize the value of Assassins and Ritualists if you're not A or Rit anymore but a god damn bear like everyone else?

tmakinen · Nov 18, 2007, 10:35 AM // 10:35

There is only one thing that is grossly out of proportion in comparison to other PvE mechanics: the cumulative bonuses from Norn and some other PvE title track like LB.

As I suggested earlier (and got swamped by yes/no rants) make a change to UB so that if you're not showing your Norn title, UB skills work as if you had zero ranks in Norn reputation. This way, you can have, e.g., the 40% Lightbringer bonus with crappy UB, or your current UB with no LB bonus.

Other than that, UB is not played because its so powerful, it's played because it's pretty effective and extremely simple (both to acquire and to play).

Tamuril elansar · Nov 18, 2007, 10:49 AM // 10:49

/signed

kill the bears plz, they make pve easier than it already is...