Curse

Selden · Jul 14, 2005, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Now, in all my suggestions I will try to have some emphasis on "what is the purpose" of having xyz vs. doing something because its cool, example, "I should have my own house in an outpost", then the question is "And what purpose does that serve?".

So, here I go.....

I've been a guild leader for 3 weeks for a fast growing guild. I find that many love PVE and aren't good or don't care for PvP, but, realize PVE has its limits eventually....so, the following will focus on extending PVE. The game is called "Guild Wars", but the only war is the actual physical fight of one guild vs. the next. The other war, the bigger one, is, which guild is the most popular, wise, friendly, courageous and adventurous... all leading to a score of SUCCESS.

NEW GUILD LADDER

A separate Guild Ladder focused on PVE
This would include a system that gives new ratings to the guild leader, and to all players. These ratings are the core focus of those playing PVE since XP of course has its limits. And, these ratings are the core focus and purpose for those in a guild without its majority playing PvP.

A-Counters for
1. "qty of elite skills captured per member of guild"
2. "qty of boss's killed (1 kill per boss) per guild member"
3. "qty of runes/upgrades unlocked per guild member"
4. "qty of missions/bonus completed, with extra points for bonus per guild member"
5. "qty of ascended players per guild"
6. "qty of quests completed per guild member"
7. "qty of ascended profession combinations and derivatives of this kind of counter"
8. "percentage of maps explored and cleared per guild member"
9. "qty of deaths per member....yes, some incentive to NOT die"

B - Algorithms for (to prevent spamming the score in some way with the above counters)
1. "members amount of time spent questing with guild members"
2. "members amount of time spent questing with non members who become members"
3. "amount of time a member has been in the guild"
4. "percentage of party size that includes guild members and frequency of that"
5. "a check for all of the above counters where those events take place during the members active guild" vs. bringing those counters to the guild from another guild)

C - Outcome (what gets displayed to end users)
1. Trophy Room in the Guild Hall (shows each boss killed as a trophy, and which are left, which are the current target/mission selected by leaders/officers)
2. Adventurers Room (shows scroll or scribe on the wall of a listing of the NPC's which gave quests and that they have been completed)
3. Missions Room (similar to adventures room, but obviously with emphasis on missions/bonus's)
4. Members Room (shows a plaque with members/officers name and current mug shot) also shows ratings/scores for the various stated algorithms
5. As the mentioned rooms fill up, points are achived, those points can be exchanged for customization of the guild hall.... gold trim, custom banners, room upgrades ect. Anything that currently exists can be improved some how and as well things can be added as long as they don't effect the outcome of gvg battles (but they should still be visible in gvg).
6. In the Trophy Room, Adventures Room, Missions Room
Subcounters to visually display the outcome of the already stated algorithms. Such as a teamwork rating that uses the stated algorithms to show the teamwork score/points.

D - A couple of things that need to happen to support this...
1. More quests would be nice, and dynamic as well, based off what answers you gave the NPC's, somewhat like what NWN did (of course GW Chars don't have those attributes)
2. Ability to allow non members to tour the hall for a specific amount of time to see rooms and status of the guild
3. Lore, more of it....much more obscure and odd quests that tie into eachother over long periods of time, like Gwen. Make it really worth spending 2 hours to get to a place that has no outposts to take a brake at.

Obviously I can get much more granular than this.......but hey, I don't work for ArenaNet, and I need to actually get back to work before I get fired!

PS: These suggestions are of course for a major version release vs a patch...but...I think it could all be done with a patch as well, given enough time.
PSS: One small thing that can be done now, separate from this entire post....allow me to see current quests completed!

Marc Miles (Kirkland Wa)
InGame (Selden Meliorate)
Guild "Consort Of Simpatico Carnage" CoSC
http://www.guilduniverse.com/cosc/

Armada Hunter · Jul 14, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08

I like it, it would definitly make the game more entertaining.

Arvydas · Jul 14, 2005, 10:06 PM // 22:06

nice idea to reward pve guilds.

Marc Grahamsworth · Jul 14, 2005, 11:51 PM // 23:51

I'm all for improving the PvE experience so this gets my vote!

EverBlue · Jul 15, 2005, 12:28 AM // 00:28

I like it, too. It would be nice to actually put things in the Guild Hall that make it.. You know.. Interesting to visit.

Silmor · Jul 15, 2005, 12:34 AM // 00:34

The name 'Guild Wars' refers to the storyline events that occured before the game storyline, described in the lore spread throughout the game. Even if you want to apply the name in game, guilds actually fighting toe to toe as happens in PvP is a far more accurate representation than guilds performing the functional equivalent of working in seperate, closed off rooms to see who can push a button the highest number of times in order to get higher on some ladder.

I don't like this proposition. For PvP, the ladder is a straightforward, simple system: if you can defeat another guild, you move up - if you lose, you move down. The guild at the top of the ladder is the guild with the best win record.

This PvE ladder system however quickly gets very complex, because it begs the question "what is the best way to play PvE as a guild?". Many guilds play PvE in different ways. There are role-playing guilds that spend hours in outposts just talking, there are casual guilds that focus on having fun at a leisurely pace, there are competitive guilds that try to unlock as much as possible for PvP through PvE, there are small, tight-knit guilds, just as there are massive guilds, etcetera. Why would one of these ways to play PvE be 'better' than the other?

But even if you ignore all that, and look at the practical side, things get very tricky. Let's say a player with a fully unlocked account joins a guild. Does that mean that guild suddenly shoots up in ranking? If yes, that means a couple of people with fully unlocked accounts could join up in one guild and pop up at #1 in the charts, and it would pretty much be impossible to compete with a guild like that as long as they're still killing bosses/questing/etc. If not (which would imply only achievements while being in the guild would count), that means only people with new accounts could contribute to their guild rank. Switching guilds would be right out, since you'd affect both your old and new guild in a negative fashion, etc.

Why is this such a complex problem? Because PvE is not competitive. Why is it not competitive? Because you can't keep getting better at it, it doesn't require you to increase your skill anymore once you've tackled a scripted challenge once. The moment you're able to kill a boss, the next 99 times aren't going to be a problem anymore, and any competition you can hold around that boils down to seeing who can repeat their tricks most often. A ladder for that would be meaningless, and therefore pointless.

PieXags · Jul 15, 2005, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Yes Silmor we all know that it's named that because of the story line and most of us problably don't really care why it was named that. If the "guild wars" ended do you mind telling me why the hell guilds still fight in their guild halls? How does that fit into the storyline? Do they do it just for the hell of it? Are they just skirmishing because they've nothing else to do? That's just...bland.

Though even though I don't like the current system of PvP I am not for this.

I'm not concerned about rank I'm concerned about fun and my ability to do something in this game, adding more titles and trophies to PvE isn't going to do anything but add some text to some guilds. I'm not all about that. See it's not that I enjoy just "PvE" or "farming" I just don't have anything else to do in the game, and that aggrivates me. Large scale PvP battles that don't end like "arena" battles, just battles that keep going, a war is what I'd say would be the best solution, more fun, even for PvE players I'd say who don't care about "rank" or "faction" just so that they can have fun feeling like their fighting for a side in a battle you can get immersed in.

While I don't really see a reason not to have it, a rank or title is what out of all this game has to offer, I'm least concerned about. I don't care if I'm last ranked or first ranked it's about being able to have fun that matters to me.

Silmor · Jul 15, 2005, 01:25 AM // 01:25

PieXags, I wouldn't mention it if people wouldn't incessantly keep bringing it up as a reason why their guild warrish suggestion or way of playing is somehow more validated.

You don't like being in a guild? It's called GUILD wars you know!
You don't like PvP? It's called guild WARS you know!
I want PvE competition! It's called GUILD WARS you know!

EverBlue · Jul 15, 2005, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Then where are the GUILD WARS?

A group of 8 fighting another group of 8 seems pretty small. Hardly a war. Hardly a battle. It wouldn't even be considered much of a skirmish.

Silmor · Jul 15, 2005, 01:42 AM // 01:42

In the past, naturally. The Guild Wars took place long before the story starts.

Anarchist_Monk · Jul 15, 2005, 03:43 AM // 03:43

I think this is a great idea. This would give some more depth to the PvE aspect of the game, and for those that don't like then just go to PvP. God knows you guys have a whole lot more than us PvEers, so give us something new. Adding more missions will eventually die, becuase they need some ideas for the expansion packs and you can only play a mission so many times until it gets boring. Adding titles and "ranks" to PvE would make it better, it would be just like the PvPers have except a little more complex. But hey we PvEers got time if we already beat the game and are tired of UW and Fissures.

Selden · Jul 15, 2005, 04:58 PM // 16:58

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