Curse

Gregslot · Jan 10, 2008, 10:27 PM // 22:27

I have to disagree on something here.
Mesmers have great surviving skills, elementalists usually have none, the only one i can imagine is Aura of Restoration.
Anyways... distortion? ether feast? interrupts? They can neutralize a targets offensive easly.

Anyways, i really still belive that the problems with mesmer and other classes at pve its the ridiculously large mobs with massive damage.
Because once you have like 15 tough enemies to fight, you cant beat them fighting head-to-head, because you are seriously out-numbered.

So thats why elementalists and their famous Meteor Shower, why? Because it deals aoe damage and neutralizes their offensive with knockdown!
If the number of enemies were reduced then the mesmers could do what they are best at, neutralizing one or two enemies and have a good effect at the enemy party. And would also give room to other classes to act, like assassins and other classes that their major problem is large mobs.
But when we are talking about 15 enemies, neutralizing 2 of them really doesnt count.
And we go back to the tank and nuke thing. You can neutralize all of them with that, thats why the holy trinity is favored.

Thats why i belive having 5-6 really tough enemies would be better for the whole game instead of 15... you cant even think properly when you see so many of them.
With 6 you can have better crontrol over the game. But control doesnt mean you will beat them. Like the fight against Shiro and the Lich, you have a perfect control over the situation, but they can whipeout your party because they are much stronger, they have better skills and etc.

ShadowbaneX · Jan 10, 2008, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

Migraine says "Hi".

that's not the point I was trying to make. Frustration in the Domination line would fit very nicely on an interrupt mesmers bar with the likes of Power Drain, Power Spike, Cry of Frustration, Cry of Pain, Power Block, etc.

If I wanted Longer Cast times in Illusion I'd just use Arcane Conundrum. As it is I'd like the extra cast time and the extra damage from Frustration in the Domination Line to make Interrupt mesmers do a little damage.

RavagerOfDreams · Jan 10, 2008, 11:24 PM // 23:24

ok every prof has a weakness
wars/dervs/paras/sins/rangers = hexes and blind
casters = caster shutdown (interupts daze hexes)
all casters are also squishy but...
eles = earth magic but this causes loss in dmg
monks = healing/prot but they dont deal dmg
necros = hexes but they dont have much healing/self defense from other non hexed targets
mesmers = evil shutdown skills but again not much healing/self defense

u cant just buff a prof to make it godly *coughs at anet dervish*

Faer · Jan 10, 2008, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowbaneX

that's not the point I was trying to make. Frustration in the Domination line would fit very nicely on an interrupt mesmers bar with the likes of Power Drain, Power Spike, Cry of Frustration, Cry of Pain, Power Block, etc.

It might fit well for you, and it'd be retarded in PvP. Which of course, would probably lead to a nerf. Which then, naturally, would lead to people on the forums begging for Mesmer buffs.

Full circle.

DRGN · Jan 10, 2008, 11:28 PM // 23:28

...Wow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Yeah, mesmers have fine energy management. That's no doubt why Recall is such a popular choice for elite.

Who in the HELL runs Mantra of Recall on a Mesmer primary? Actually, who runs it AT ALL? Unless you're living in a time rift or something where Mo/Me Boon Prots are still run everywhere, I don't know where you see Mantra of Recall. That, or you can't tell that MoR these days is Mantra of Recovery. You can also run Power Drain and Glyph of Lesser Energy. It's not like Mesmers are the only class that ever rely on their secondary for e-management.

And about Fast Casting sucking...yeah, you can keep your 3 second cast Diversion, I'll cut mine down kthx.

Kanyatta · Jan 11, 2008, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Anyone who ever used Mantra of Recall, even in the Boon/Prot days, needs a hard punch in the e-management section of their Guild Wars. It's completely useless, and unnecessary if you're decent at the game at all.

BTW, Fast Cast is one of the best Profession-specific attributes in the game. Maybe behind Leadership or Energy Storage.

Oh, and add Drain Enchant to the Mesmer's survivability, kthx.

Mesmer is a great profession in the hands of a decent player.

Mineria · Jan 11, 2008, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystical nessAL

Lol, it's not the problem of the player who sucks, peoples agreed the proff is just abit weak in the current PvE. Farming has nothing to do in it and EVERY proff can solo farm. it doesnt not matter if you can solo farm somewhere so the proff is strong. The PvE today requires AoE dmg from casters or they are not usefull, which leaves mesmer alone as it barely has any EFFECTIVE aoe dmg, and even if it has 1 or 2, it's with a very high recharge.

It is a problem of understanding how to play a mesmer effective.
Since it is a single target shutdown/energy denial class, this makes it harder to manage then as example the elementalist.
Which leads to that you will find more players playing good on E then Me.
Not to forget that "mage/sorcerer" is more common in mmo's.
The PvE is easyer with a good Mesmer, more then people think.
Specially if you do hardmode, where they are imba for shutting down annoying foes.
Since AOE is not always the thing, some foes actually spread out more then others.
Not to forget several boss fights.
Unfortently there are slipped certain PvE only skills into the game that all classes can use.
Making the Mesmer even less attractive for the pug's unless they go UB.
Funny that none has mentioned the Assasin yet...

aapo · Jan 11, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiragi Yagami

i definately think that mesmers have been given a bad name, and i dont understand why.

- Because Mesmer skills are unreasonably expensive and have long recharge and casting times, perhaps? Eles have expensive skills too, but Attunement helps turns that 15 cost skill to 9 energy skill.

Just compare:

Crippling Anguish (15 energy, 1 cast, 20 recharge) (elite)
For 8...18 seconds, target moves 50% slower and suffers -1...3 health degeneration.

Ice Prison (10 energy, 2 cast, 30 recharge)
For 8...18 seconds, target foe's legs are encased in ice, causing that foe to move 66% slower. This effect ends if target takes fire damage.

- Better slowdown, lower cost, attunement bonus. I know which one I would take for snare. How about next one?

Shared Burden (10 energy, 2 cast, 25 recharge) (elite)
For 3...21 seconds, target foe and all nearby foes move 50% slower.

Grasping Earth (5 energy, 3/4 cast, 12 recharge)
For 8...18 seconds, all nearby foes move 50% slower.

- Only drawback Grasping Earth has is point-blank range. Otherwise it's half costs/casts/recharges for same effect. Oh and no elite status either. Take Grasping Earth for your melee character and you can laugh at people who are considering Mesmer for snaring character.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiragi Yagami

most people think mesmers are a waste of a party slot, but ive found that in most situations in PvE where i really need interrupts,

- You don't need to devote entire character just to have interrupts... Pick Mesmer secondary and interrupts to any caster hero or have Broad Head Arrow for much better shutdown against nasty caster bosses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

BTW, Fast Cast is one of the best Profession-specific attributes in the game. Maybe behind Leadership or Energy Storage.

- No, it's not. Backfire has 3 second cast time, Spiteful Spirit has 2 second cast time. 9 points in Fast Casting makes Backfire cast in two seconds instead of three. In fact there's not a single Curse with 3 second casting time, whereas number of key Mesmer skills (Diversion, Spirit of Failure, Signet of Humility, Ether Nightmare for PvE) have 3 second casting times to make Fast Casting essentially zero-gain. It's just as useless primary attribute as Energy Storage, which is supposed to limit Elementalist spell abuse on secondary professions. 40/40 spellcasting set!

Alex Morningstar · Jan 11, 2008, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

I have to disagree on something here.
Mesmers have great surviving skills, elementalists usually have none, the only one i can imagine is Aura of Restoration.

[skill]Armor of Earth[/skill][skill]Armor of Frost[/skill][skill]Armor of Mist[/skill][skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill][skill]Frigid Armor[/skill][skill]Gale[/skill][skill]Frozen Burst[/skill][skill]Flame Djinn's Haste[/skill][skill]Glyph of Restoration[/skill][skill]Grasping Earth[/skill][skill]Kinetic Armor[/skill][skill]Mirror of Ice[/skill][skill]Mist Form[/skill]
[skill]Obsidian Flesh[/skill][skill]Sliver Armor[/skill][skill]Stone Sheath[/skill][skill]Stoneflesh Aura[/skill][skill]Storm Djinn's Haste[/skill][skill]Swirling Aura[/skill][skill]Ward Against Elements[/skill][skill]Ward Against Foes[/skill][skill]Ward Against Harm[/skill][skill]Ward Against Melee[/skill][skill]Ward of Stability[/skill][skill]Windborne Speed[/skill]

EotN: Ward of Weakness

I missed some, but I don't see a core profession not having ANY defensive skills of varying types. If someone doesn't have defense, it's because they dropped it for flare.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Jan 11, 2008, 02:03 AM // 02:03

lol nice post

also this topic is silly mes don't need any buffs for PVE

[skill]Signet of Illusions[/skill]
All I ever need.

Gregslot · Jan 11, 2008, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Morningstar

[skill]Armor of Earth[/skill][skill]Armor of Frost[/skill][skill]Armor of Mist[/skill][skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill][skill]Frigid Armor[/skill][skill]Gale[/skill][skill]Frozen Burst[/skill][skill]Flame Djinn's Haste[/skill][skill]Glyph of Restoration[/skill][skill]Grasping Earth[/skill][skill]Kinetic Armor[/skill][skill]Mirror of Ice[/skill][skill]Mist Form[/skill]
[skill]Obsidian Flesh[/skill][skill]Sliver Armor[/skill][skill]Stone Sheath[/skill][skill]Stoneflesh Aura[/skill][skill]Storm Djinn's Haste[/skill][skill]Swirling Aura[/skill][skill]Ward Against Elements[/skill][skill]Ward Against Foes[/skill][skill]Ward Against Harm[/skill][skill]Ward Against Melee[/skill][skill]Ward of Stability[/skill][skill]Windborne Speed[/skill]

EotN: Ward of Weakness

I missed some, but I don't see a core profession not having ANY defensive skills of varying types. If someone doesn't have defense, it's because they dropped it for flare.

yes, but none of these skills acutally saves you unconditionally
50% doesnt put you at safe zone
slow doesnt put you at safe zone
armor? pff... even warriors have armor
none of these counter degen
armor against melee OR projectiles (not both) doesnt put you at safe zone

none of these skills actually saves you life
compared to Distortion, wich works against all attacks, or Ether Feast that heals you for more 100HP and is fast, or interrupts that (in drastic moments) can interrupt attacks (most likely assssin combos) and spells that will kill you

yes, they have... but most of them arent really worth taking for yourself with the objective of putting you in a good advantage over the enemy.

ps: im taking in consideration the character alone, not including any other character/profession. But in a team it can really make the difference. And i really do play as an elementalist

ThisSuddenInjury · Jan 11, 2008, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

To you guys claiming mesmers don't need buffing: try playing one.
If you can't be bothered to powerlevel one in PvE, at least try one out in RA.

you're stupid, sorry.

RhanoctJocosa · Jan 11, 2008, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Wtf why is everyone so bad. You really think ANet's going to buff the FC line just because mesmers aren't the most useful class in PvE (and haven't ever been)? Zzzzzzz.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowbaneX

that's not the point I was trying to make. Frustration in the Domination line would fit very nicely on an interrupt mesmers bar with the likes of Power Drain, Power Spike, Cry of Frustration, Cry of Pain, Power Block, etc.

Frustration is supposed to be used with Migraine for added pressure. I also don't see how PBlock would work well with Frustration seeing as you're disabling a good number of skills which they won't be using for ~15 seconds. CoF is for spike disruption.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

lol nice post

also this topic is silly mes don't need any buffs for PVE

[skill]Signet of Illusions[/skill]
All I ever need.

QFT

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- Because Mesmer skills are unreasonably expensive and have long recharge and casting times, perhaps? Eles have expensive skills too, but Attunement helps turns that 15 cost skill to 9 energy skill.

Just compare:

Crippling Anguish (15 energy, 1 cast, 20 recharge) (elite)
For 8...18 seconds, target moves 50% slower and suffers -1...3 health degeneration.

Ice Prison (10 energy, 2 cast, 30 recharge)
For 8...18 seconds, target foe's legs are encased in ice, causing that foe to move 66% slower. This effect ends if target takes fire damage.

- Better slowdown, lower cost, attunement bonus. I know which one I would take for snare. How about next one?

Comparing two skills without looking at what else is on the bar is pretty stupid. WM tore top teams apart with the Cripang mesmer so obviously it has it's uses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

Shared Burden (10 energy, 2 cast, 25 recharge) (elite)
For 3...21 seconds, target foe and all nearby foes move 50% slower.

Grasping Earth (5 energy, 3/4 cast, 12 recharge)
For 8...18 seconds, all nearby foes move 50% slower.

- Only drawback Grasping Earth has is point-blank range. Otherwise it's half costs/casts/recharges for same effect. Oh and no elite status either. Take Grasping Earth for your melee character and you can laugh at people who are considering Mesmer for snaring character.

GE being point-black range is a huge drawback. Again, you need to consider what else is on the bar and what situation it would be used in. As well as that, you need to understand not all skills are supposed to be good- Mesmers already have insanely strong bars, stop complaining.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- You don't need to devote entire character just to have interrupts... Pick Mesmer secondary and interrupts to any caster hero or have Broad Head Arrow for much better shutdown against nasty caster bosses.

So against nasty caster bosses you would choose a BHA ranger over a mesmer with interrupts, same way I would choose to run Paragons and splinter weapon in that same situation. Zzz.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- No, it's not. Backfire has 3 second cast time, Spiteful Spirit has 2 second cast time. 9 points in Fast Casting makes Backfire cast in two seconds instead of three. In fact there's not a single Curse with 3 second casting time, whereas number of key Mesmer skills (Diversion, Spirit of Failure, Signet of Humility, Ether Nightmare for PvE) have 3 second casting times to make Fast Casting essentially zero-gain. It's just as useless primary attribute as Energy Storage, which is supposed to limit Elementalist spell abuse on secondary professions. 40/40 spellcasting set!

-_- Don't you think FC is supposed to try limit the strong, and usually longer to cast, skills to mesmers? Next time I double fast cast a diversion and cause a wipe I'm going to smile and think of you. : )

I also have no idea why people are talking about mesmer survivability in PvE, you have monks with insanely strong prot skills, use them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

yes, but none of these skills acutally saves you unconditionally

i herd gale&bflash/surge were gud at savin u frm melee classes & speed boosts were gud at makin u run awai

Alex Morningstar · Jan 11, 2008, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

yes, but none of these skills acutally saves you unconditionally
50% doesnt put you at safe zone
slow doesnt put you at safe zone
armor? pff... even warriors have armor
none of these counter degen
armor against melee OR projectiles (not both) doesnt put you at safe zone

none of these skills actually saves you life
compared to Distortion, wich works against all attacks, or Ether Feast that heals you for more 100HP and is fast, or interrupts that (in drastic moments) can interrupt attacks (most likely assssin combos) and spells that will kill you

yes, they have... but most of them arent really worth taking for yourself with the objective of putting you in a good advantage over the enemy.

ps: im taking in consideration the character alone, not including any other character/profession. But in a team it can really make the difference. And i really do play as an elementalist

[skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Obsidian Flesh[/skill]

You might have to bump off flare to have more than one defensive skill, but if you are having problems keeping your ass safe as an elementalist, a core profession with hundreds of skill combos across 9 other professions 3 campaigns and an expansion, then it's an end user problem, not a problem with the profession.

[skill]Distortion[/skill]
75% chance and each successful block is -2 energy. The break point for the skill to last as long as it's recharge is 14 Illusion magic. I hope with your energy pool of 45ish, you aren't running low on energy when you need it, or that whatever is chasing you gives up quick or you're still screwed.

Oh, and it's a stance. Wild Blow loves stances, so does Wild Strike and Wild Throw.

[skill]Wild Blow[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill][skill]Wild Throw[/skill]

So after Distortion, what else does Mesmers have?

RhanoctJocosa · Jan 11, 2008, 06:01 AM // 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Morningstar

Oh, and it's a stance. Wild Blow loves stances, so does Wild Strike and Wild Throw.

[skill]Wild Blow[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill][skill]Wild Throw[/skill]

So after Distortion, what else does Mesmers have?

Stop bringing SPR into discussion, it doesn't prove anything. Distortion was/is an amazing skill to help keep mesmers alive, and even if it's only one of the few, it's better than nothing.

EDIT: I would like to see buffs to these skills: [skill]Distortion[/skill][skill]inspired enchantment[/skill][skill]inspired hex[/skill][skill]revealed enchantment[/skill][skill]revealed hex[/skill][skill]mantra of recall[/skill][skill]drain enchantment[/skill][skill]energy drain[/skill][skill]energy tap[/skill]

Master Sword Keeper · Jan 11, 2008, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Morningstar

So after Distortion, what else does Mesmers have?

This.

[skill]Blackout[/skill]

Alex Morningstar · Jan 11, 2008, 03:01 PM // 15:01

@Rhanoct, My statement was to the above kid who couldn't play an Elementalist and was saying that Mesmers didn't need buffs and that Mesmers had it so much better than them.

That was uh, support my saying mesmers DO need buffs, which was the point of the thread.

So yeah, it does prove something. Just not to you because in no way was my statement directed at you.

@Master Sword Keeper

Indeed.
But I wasn't actually asking for a skill, I was wanting Greg who claimed there was no defensive Elementalist skills to post a Mesmer defensive skill other than Distortion since that was all he was focusing on. My point was that the list of Mesmer defensive skills and those afforded an Elementalist seem to be a little bit smaller that he would have it appear.

Faer · Jan 11, 2008, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

EDIT: I would like to see buffs to these skills: [skill]Distortion[/skill][skill]inspired enchantment[/skill][skill]inspired hex[/skill][skill]revealed enchantment[/skill][skill]revealed hex[/skill][skill]mantra of recall[/skill][skill]drain enchantment[/skill][skill]energy drain[/skill][skill]energy tap[/skill]

o i c wut u did thar, rhanoct.

Why not buff [skill]offering of blood[/skill] while we're at it?

Chicken Ftw · Jan 11, 2008, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Why's this still... Oh. You're keeping this thread open for humor value from all the bad suggestions, right? .... right?

Alex Morningstar · Jan 11, 2008, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

Why's this still... Oh. You're keeping this thread open for humor value from all the bad suggestions, right? .... right?

Is there a rule saying threads need to be closed promptly, people are still posting on it. :P

From what I can tell, most people go "omg, use search!" but then all they find is closed threads. So if they wanted to talk about Mesmers deserving buffs but the thread was closed...

Don't contribute to the cess pool that is Sardelac. Every time you do, God kills a kittens.

On topic, Mesmers have [skill]Signet of Illusions[/skill]. Is that awesome or what? 12+whatever Illusion, 12 Fast Cast, whatever skills on your bar you want, including rank-attributed pve skills. Good deal.