Curse

TaCktiX · Dec 19, 2007, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleetDragon

Well I see your point Shayne Hawkeye, I understand you see it as get 1,337,550 Exp then be done, but lets take a step back, do the players who wasted their time and money to remake their players to get the title get reimbursed? They earned the title the way I believe Anet intended for them to get it. So to allow other players to get a second chance without remaking now thats just not plain fair. I can understand that along with this implication some sort of reimbursment would be fair to the other players that had already recieved the title the original way? If that condition can be met I wouldnt be as impartial to say I don't like it.

Guess what, ANet has proven people wrong time and time again on "how it should be done." Hardcore PvP people are a little bugged because Zaishen Keys cannot be gotten from Tournament Tokens, but since we believed they would be extended to any future additional use of Balthazar Faction, we should get re-imbursed, right?

Alliance Faction used to not have so many ways to get redeemed, and since all the folks who got a really high faction total before it changed believed they should get extra credit for it, they should, right?

I have made the ignored point before that LDoA and LS are the most un-Title titles in the game. There are specific points where you cannot get them right now, unlike EVERY SINGLE OTHER title. There are no other titles where you "lose progress" towards them after a certain action.

I do not advocate changing LDoA right now, because it is a title meant to honor the Pre-searing community. I'm amazed people aren't complaining about the exclusive Charr Bags and Charr Salvage Kits you can only get in Pre-searing, because all the Prophecies characters never had a chance to get them (added March 07, June 07 respectively). It's a hard thing to fathom, but a lot of people NEVER LEAVE Pre-searing, and they're happy with that. LDoA is a title made for them.

But Legendary Survivor can be fixed without messing up intent. Having the option to restart and then "gain progress" in the title only makes sense. It's the only thing that brings it into line with the other 41 titles that exist. If you lost Fame for losing a Heroes' Ascent match, you would be fuming. If you lost the chance to get the bonus on the Great Northern Wall mission because you didn't know it existed and didn't do it the first time, you would be indignant. So why does the same thing exist for Legendary Survivor?

pumpkin pie · Dec 19, 2007, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

..

But Legendary Survivor can be fixed without messing up intent. Having the option to restart and then "gain progress" in the title only makes sense. It's the only thing that brings it into line with the other 41 titles that exist. If you lost Fame for losing a Heroes' Ascent match, you would be fuming. If you lost the chance to get the bonus on the Great Northern Wall mission because you didn't know it existed and didn't do it the first time, you would be indignant. So why does the same thing exist for Legendary Survivor?

totally agree with this.

Holly Herro · Dec 19, 2007, 10:27 AM // 10:27

/signed

Why should we have to restart our characters? We'd have to wait for our 3rd b-day present aswell =[

That's worse than murder!

And to who ever disagrees, please, don't be jealous that you didn't get to start your LS title at level 20.

Rachel Crow · Dec 19, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Everything this guy posted is just (insert bad word)! Basically by everything he said and all his amazing brain power leads to "whatever GW has set we must never change!...Also I had to do it one way so everybody else should too..."

By his logic...:
Lets unnerf all the skills while we're at it please, some people got hero points with IWay so now I want that too, oh and to change attributes that should cost skill points again because I lost skill points! Heaven forbid any changes to the game!

Lets face it, most people want to have survivour on their older characters, so lets stop trying to argue against a change that most people want. People have characters with over 25 maxed titles and looking forward to year 3 pets, asking them to remake is (insert bad word)!

Edit: I quoted the wrong guy and don't feel like going back lol.

MithranArkanere · Dec 19, 2007, 03:30 PM // 15:30

I agree that LDoA and survivor should not coexist. And even there could be an alternate third title for those who failed to get survivor. But currently some characters can get a certain amout of titles, and other can't.

The whole point of the thread goes there.

Call it other way, if you want, like 'Endurer', that doesn't mater. The things is that there is 'imbalance' of the only type that PvE can have: Characters being able to access non-profession specific things other characers can't.

Even foreign characters can enter local Vizunah and vice-versa.

Victor Wehn · Dec 19, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

/signed
i think its a good idea

SleetDragon · Dec 19, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rachel Crow

Everything this guy posted is just (insert bad word)! Basically by everything he said and all his amazing brain power leads to "whatever GW has set we must never change!...Also I had to do it one way so everybody else should too..."

By his logic...:
Lets unnerf all the skills while we're at it please, some people got hero points with IWay so now I want that too, oh and to change attributes that should cost skill points again because I lost skill points! Heaven forbid any changes to the game!

Lets face it, most people want to have survivour on their older characters, so lets stop trying to argue against a change that most people want. People have characters with over 25 maxed titles and looking forward to year 3 pets, asking them to remake is (insert bad word)!

Edit: I quoted the wrong guy and don't feel like going back lol.

1. If you were refering to me, I believe everything you said is, ignorant. I never said GW shouldnt change anything, I'm saying that this title hasn't been adjusted in the last 2 years and I do not believe Anet is going to change it anyway. And I have never earned the title LS on any character and proud of the fact.
2.Again ignorance, I never said we should undo everything because its fair I'm saying this title raises more controversy to people that have already accomplished it in the original intent Anet put in place. If Anet wants to change it then a new forum is gonna pop up in reverse "Should older characters be allowed to get LS" because no not everyone agrees to change LS. And I personally don't care how old your character is, you missed the chance for the title go cry yourself to sleep and move on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

I agree that LDoA and survivor should not coexist. And even there could be an alternate third title for those who failed to get survivor. But currently some characters can get a certain amout of titles, and other can't.

The whole point of the thread goes there.

Call it other way, if you want, like 'Endurer', that doesn't mater. The things is that there is 'imbalance' of the only type that PvE can have: Characters being able to access non-profession specific things other characers can't.

Even foreign characters can enter local Vizunah and vice-versa.

I agree that is the point there is imbalance, but you should look at it this way I missed out on one title maybe... I should try for something I can still get. The whole point of this title was that if you failed up until this point you could not recieve the title.
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Just so oh by the way it takes 30 titles to reach maximum tier on the "Kind of a Big Deal" title track. There are currently 42 obtainable titles. Pick one of the other 12 and quit whining.

TaCktiX · Dec 19, 2007, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Pssst...other than Faction rank, there have been no other PvP maxed titles by anybody yet.

StelardActek · Dec 19, 2007, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

How about we just make the LS title register towards the Maxed Titles track accountwide and be done with it?

I can't really support this, since I don't want LS on my main for the maxed titles track. I know I'll never get the maxed titles track maxed, so I'm not aiming for it. I just want to be able to show off the LS title on my main, since I never ever play the character I have it on.

Shayne Hawke · Dec 20, 2007, 03:27 AM // 03:27

I took a recent poll of three in-game players of their opinions on the LS changes.

- IGN Elena Rasmus claimed that they would support the title, allowing them to get it on their Monk. She also said "then the only title I wouldn't be able to get on each character would be Legendary Defender of Ascalon," but I think we've covered that.

- IGN Fyni Sanbir said that she's heard of proposals like this in the past, but she doesn't think much of them. "My main title character can't get it, but it's not a big deal."

- IGN S N O Vv Vvhite opposed the idea, saying it would go against those who already have it. She said something along the lines of it being erasing all your mistakes until you get it right.

So, in general, people (who happened to be standing in Kamadan American District 1 at the same time I was) who have this title have consenting opinions on this subject as well.

I think that, for the most part, I'm done here. I want this title to be changed to something that we can earn the way the OP has suggested. However, I realize and have always known that you don't need LS to get the 30 titles you need for your God title. I'll let the other people here who are also very good at arguing all the points I am making keep pushing and the people who don't want change to fight back.

I have to go prepare for Wintersday.

Isileth · Dec 20, 2007, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

- IGN S N O Vv Vvhite opposed the idea, saying it would go against those who already have it. She said something along the lines of it being erasing all your mistakes until you get it right.

So many people who have it under the current system have restarted chars multiple times.

They make a mistake and fail. Yet they can start again.

The difference is they have nothing to lose.

So currently you can erase all your mistakes until you get it right.

Meo Yeong · Dec 20, 2007, 03:50 AM // 03:50

/signed

I agree that survivor should be available somehow to older character.

TaCktiX · Dec 20, 2007, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

So many people who have it under the current system have restarted chars multiple times.

They make a mistake and fail. Yet they can start again.

The difference is they have nothing to lose.

So currently you can erase all your mistakes until you get it right.

Yeah, I had to restart my ele (my last eligible character for LS, and the last non-Level 20 non-going-for-LDoA non-without-titles-already) after a bone-headed monk aggroed every last wandering ghost in the Nolani bonus. Was quite irritating after I had invested an elite ele tome and 2 normal tomes on her. That, and the fact that the monk complained to ME for initially running away from the massive over-aggro. I came back and almost nuked them dead, but two were still alive when they cut me down.

So making it possible for me to restart so I don't suffer for someone else's stupid mistake would be nice. And allowing me to try again after my first character's "I was learning the game" mistakes is not wrong.

Holly Herro · Dec 20, 2007, 07:03 AM // 07:03

How about we make ANOTHER EXCLUSIVE TITLE for the pre-title characters only? Same xp requirement, just different writing. It'll make it so we get an exclusive, no longer available title and you can have your cheap, LS. We want our exclusive, surviving title.

Name suggestions yo?

Solus Spartan · Dec 20, 2007, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

Yeah, I had to restart my ele (my last eligible character for LS, and the last non-Level 20 non-going-for-LDoA non-without-titles-already) after a bone-headed monk aggroed every last wandering ghost in the Nolani bonus. Was quite irritating after I had invested an elite ele tome and 2 normal tomes on her. That, and the fact that the monk complained to ME for initially running away from the massive over-aggro. I came back and almost nuked them dead, but two were still alive when they cut me down.

So making it possible for me to restart so I don't suffer for someone else's stupid mistake would be nice. And allowing me to try again after my first character's "I was learning the game" mistakes is not wrong.

That's NOT what this thread is about.

TaCktiX · Dec 20, 2007, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Isn't it? This thread is about giving a second chance to the people who never were able to get Legendary Survivor the first time. This falls under people with pre-Factions characters, and people who had first characters, and certainly made a boatload of silly mistakes they wouldn't ever do again, negating their chance of getting the title. A lot of people's first characters are their main characters, their "title chars", their favorites. As posted above, a second chance is the only thing that would make Legendary Survivor make sense next to every single title.

cyddry · Dec 20, 2007, 12:47 PM // 12:47

/Signed
I really would like my main char to be a survivor, but I just can't remake her for she is my eldest char.

MithranArkanere · Dec 20, 2007, 12:48 PM // 12:48

This is Guild Wars.

We don't re-roll, we re-play. The far from the 'pay real cash to re-roll' system found in other games we are, the better.

Hanok Odbrook · Dec 20, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

You still have to survive for 1,337,500 sequential XP. Just because it doesn't start at Level 1 does not cheapen the title in any way at all. It's not like people will suddenly be able to doubleaggro, solo DoA with a whammo, or charge without monks into a mob and get the title. It's STILL as hard as it always has been, and it's not cheapened in any way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holly Herro

How about we make ANOTHER EXCLUSIVE TITLE for the pre-title characters only? Same xp requirement, just different writing. It'll make it so we get an exclusive, no longer available title and you can have your cheap, LS. We want our exclusive, surviving title.

Name suggestions yo?

Which is what I suggested previously. I am not in favor of changing the current Survivor title, even though about half of my total characters are from Tyria and I was not able to keep one alive long enough to get the title - even long before the title came about. However, I am not opposed to adding a new title for those who desire some kind of recognition for being able to achieve "surviving" status. I would just suggest to make it mutually exclusive with the Survivor title so characters who are true survivors cannot go for that title so long as they have a rank in the current one - even after they die.

There is a major point here that all the supporters for a change are missing. Sure it's still tough to gain that million+ XP even with "helpers" such as scrolls, repeatable quests, elite caps, et al. But the point of the Survivor title is that it was created for those who were able to do it with ZERO deaths, just as LDoA is a reward for the perma-pre characters. Everything else aside, players who have characters with deaths should not be able to share a title with players who have zero deaths - that defeats the original purpose of the title.

Again, let's just create a new title that anyone not eligible for the Survivor title can go for. In addition to that, I would also like to see further tiers in the current Survivor as I mentioned before, to reward those who still are going with zero deaths on a character.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

StelardActek · Dec 22, 2007, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

But the point of the Survivor title is that it was created for those who were able to do it with ZERO deaths, just as LDoA is a reward for the perma-pre characters.

I've always had a slight issue with people saying things like this, but I've not said anything until now. Has ArenaNet ever actually /said/ these things, or is it just what people /assume/ the reason these titles was created? Because I've never seen it said anywhere. Just because those who were anal enough to avoid death completely before titles out got Survivor instantly, doesn't mean that ANet created the title just to reward those people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

In addition to that, I would also like to see further tiers in the current Survivor as I mentioned before, to reward those who still are going with zero deaths on a character.

I have to say I'm strongly against adding more tiers to any title, especially one you can disqualify for, like Survivor. That would be to punish those people who have died since getting LS.

I still maintain that it is impossible to play socially with other people while avoiding all deaths, unless they happen to be just like you on that matter.