Curse

Amon Warrior · Feb 03, 2008, 01:45 AM // 01:45

PVE-only skills means no PVP usability, so that they don't get nerfed to death due to PVP gameplay abuse.

PVE-only skills are already limited to three slots.

If anything, they're a good help for all sorts of builds...

HawkofStorms · Feb 03, 2008, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miska Bow

So is this what we're talking about ?

Ebon Battle Standard of Courage
Ward Spell. You plant an Ebon Battle Standard of Courage at your current location. For 10...20 seconds, non-Spirit allies in this area gain +24 armor and an additional +24 armor against Charr.

Compare to this:

Ward Against Harm

Elite Ward Spell. Create a Ward Against Harm at this location. For 8...18...20 seconds, non-Spirit allies in this area have 12...50...60 armor against fire damage and 12...22...24 armor against other damage.

Where is this Huge advantage you're talking about? If you take the time to look them up carefully, you 'll find that they, for the most part, have a pve/pvp skill counterpart. (meaning none of these skills are kick-ass-lick'em all and mail post them back to their mamas skills) ( Ursan is not a skill, its a blessing... for some)

Have you bought EoTN ? If yes i dont understand your attitude. If not then i can understand your frustrations

Umm... one takes up your elite slot and one does not?

Lord Sojar · Feb 03, 2008, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Nerf all skills! NOW! DO IT. Clearly Withdraw Hexes is overpowered. Yet another QQ thread against PvE skills. Seriously... it's PvE... let's not take it so seriously. Actually, let's laugh at it.

Avarre · Feb 03, 2008, 03:58 AM // 03:58

PvE became a joke as soon as PvE skills were implemented. The game isn't balanced against them - you can't really lose with a human group. He's actually right - why bother designing inventive builds when you're more effective with attributeless pve skills?

Why should grinding make you more powerful? I guess having skill was too hard, so they added an easy path for people who think playing a lot = being good.

This isn't even solely with regards to Ursan, all of the PvE skills should have never been made. You can cry all you want about how you need it to PuG or H/H areas (I know some of you are saying that), but you used to have to do a thing called making an organized group, and finding people who were good, if you wanted to do something properly.

Racthoh · Feb 03, 2008, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimzon_DST

IF some1 grinds out the high titles and has the benefit to use the skills effectively, they deserve it,

Grinding should not give anyone an edge over anyone else. That is why these skills are bad for the game.

Antheus · Feb 03, 2008, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miska Bow

Ebon Battle Standard of Courage
Ward Spell. You plant an Ebon Battle Standard of Courage at your current location. For 10...20 seconds, non-Spirit allies in this area gain +24 armor and an additional +24 armor against Charr.

Requires:
- grind
- 10 energy

Quote:

Ward Against Harm

Elite Ward Spell. Create a Ward Against Harm at this location. For 8...18...20 seconds, non-Spirit allies in this area have 12...50...60 armor against fire damage and 12...22...24 armor against other damage.

Requires:
- Primary elementalist
- Elite slot
- 16 in water magic
- 75 health loss
- 15 energy

Yep, exactly the same.

Quote:

( Ursan is not a skill, its a blessing... for some)

Everything that goes on your skill bar is a skill.

Skills however are of different types, such as spells, preparations, attack skills, blessings, etc...

A11Eur0 · Feb 03, 2008, 04:28 AM // 04:28

OMFG the plain question here is what kind of disadvantage do you have? You claimed to be solo...so you're not going to require being able to PuG. Use heroes/henchies. You claim to be casual...so you don't need to "farm", and you don't need to play the elite areas that require builds/skills like these.

Ursan is the only skill that people tend to require in group building. If that's the case, form a group of your own for these areas. I don't see anyone requiring Air of Superiority, or Save Yourselves!, or "I Am Unstoppable!"...pain inverter maybe but it's not exactly necessary, as only one pain inverter can kill pretty much anything it works best on.

Amon Warrior · Feb 03, 2008, 04:48 AM // 04:48

I agree that PVE-only skills should've been dependent on attributes since day one. That was a huge drawback from Anet's initial premise.

But since they're here, I can't agree on the limits that the OP suggests. What's the point on having them then? What to do with all the players who grinded that far to maximize their skills?

How the skills were implemented is the real problem.
It's a really screwy situation, isn't it?...

The game is broken and fixing it would upset a lot of players. But isn't this all part of the grand plan? GW1 became a test subject since GW2 was announced. This is just one more reason why players in the future should migrate to a (supposedly) vastly improved, less-broken gameplay in GW2.

Biostem · Feb 03, 2008, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Well frankly, many of the problem PvE skills could simply be adjusted, (yes, that likely means a nerf), and things would, IMO, improve. Make the various blessings not grant a zealous effect w/ attacks, and you make them non-perma.

As to others, I can't really think of any that are as gamebreaking, an only the Norn blessings permit you to play and be effective by just taking that 1 skill...

Amon Warrior · Feb 03, 2008, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biostem

As to others, I can't really think of any that are as gamebreaking, an only the Norn blessings permit you to play and be effective by just taking that 1 skill...

Once all skills were dependent on how you'd distribute your attribute points, which was true to the premise "the skill you have" instead of the "time you spend" in the game.

Nowadays, there's grinding certain titles to maximize certain PVE skills. Attribute-dependent skills became redundant over those more powerful skills. What is broken here is how you now play PVE. If you stay true to "Skill over Time" and opt NOT to go for PVE-only skills, or choose not to maximize those skills with grinding, you're out of the good stuff that the game has to offer...

Biostem · Feb 03, 2008, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amon Warrior

Once all skills were dependent on how you'd distribute your attribute points, which was true to the premise "the skill you have" instead of the "time you spend" in the game.

Nowadays, there's grinding certain titles to maximize certain PVE skills. Attribute-dependent skills became redundant over those more powerful skills. What is broken here is how you now play PVE. If you stay true to "Skill over Time" and opt NOT to go for PVE-only skills, or choose not to maximize those skills with grinding, you're out of the good stuff that the game has to offer...

Ah.. point taken. TY.

MithranArkanere · Feb 03, 2008, 05:58 AM // 05:58

GW is competitive(PvP)-cooperative(PvE).

Is someone gets a lof of titles, gold and stuff, it's not bad for you it does not affect you. I even may grant you minutes of favor to use.

PvE skills are just like elite skills. You can put a limited ammount of them in the bar, and thn 'full up', based on those you have choosed.

There are a lot of options, even if you use Ursan blessing, you may bring summons, spirits, echoes, stances...

GrimEye · Feb 03, 2008, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

This isn't even solely with regards to Ursan, all of the PvE skills should have never been made. You can cry all you want about how you need it to PuG or H/H areas (I know some of you are saying that), but you used to have to do a thing called making an organized group, and finding people who were good, if you wanted to do something properly.

I really wonder what the "organized group" you're talking about consist of. The usual fabulous five? Half of the class was never had room for them, unless as filler.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

PvE became a joke as soon as PvE skills were implemented.

What's the state of PVP now, with all the "organized group" and "all the people who are good"? Has the PVP people come up with any radical "decent" build without relegating inventive build as "gimmick"? People always speak of sticking to "balanced" group at one hand, and speak of being "inventive" on another. Go figure.

Where is PVP now? Would it be right to say that if PVP is not a joke, at least, its struggling for its last gasp of breath?

Point is, PVE skills never made PVE a joke. It has given half the profession a fighting chance to be part of the group in a game where "meta-grouping" was limited to few classes. Maybe ANET should have stick to the core professions and never made the other professions so the PVE-skills should have never come out.

If PVE is a joke, PVP is a joke, what is there to play in GW?

NOTE: I dont truly believe PVP is a joke, as I don't believe people saying PVE is joke. Im just taking in their "version and perception of reality" of PVP-PVE, that, if everything in GW is a joke, why still bother with the game?

Hailey Anne · Feb 03, 2008, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia cyborg

competitve i mean....on par ( i edited it out cos it wasnt' clear sorry)

if i don't use pve skills i'm at disadvantage compared to somoene who has them .(btw i don't even have time to max those skills)

thats what i mean.

I rarely use the PvE only skills and I am in now way at a disadvantage.
Most of the skills suck really.

{IceFire} · Feb 03, 2008, 07:07 AM // 07:07

don't you take my pain inverter and assassin support

/notsigned

MithranArkanere · Feb 03, 2008, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Ah... I love Mindbender. As an elementalists, feeling like a mesmer for some seconds is wonderful, XD.

Avarre · Feb 03, 2008, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimEye

I really wonder what the "organized group" you're talking about consist of. The usual fabulous five? Half of the class was never had room for them, unless as filler.

Organization has to do with tactics, build structure, and communication. The classes you brought were less relevant.

Quote:

What's the state of PVP now, with all the "organized group" and "all the people who are good"? Has the PVP people come up with any radical "decent" build without relegating inventive build as "gimmick"? People always speak of sticking to "balanced" group at one hand, and speak of being "inventive" on another. Go figure.

Where is PVP now? Would it be right to say that if PVP is not a joke, at least, its struggling for its last gasp of breath?

Not sure why you wrote this, none of it is relevant to the topic.

Quote:

Point is, PVE skills never made PVE a joke. It has given half the profession a fighting chance to be part of the group in a game where "meta-grouping" was limited to few classes. Maybe ANET should have stick to the core professions and never made the other professions so the PVE-skills should have never come out.

I PUG'ed a good part of my FoW armor in 2005 and I play Mesmer. If you made your own groups, you could easily grab some other roles and walk through more of the areas of the game without trouble. I usually just grabbed 4-5 others for FoW.

I pugged through several areas of DoA on said Mesmer as well (for the others I just used people I knew).

Wouldn't be sad if there were no new professions. They don't tend to add any depth to gameplay thus far.

Quote:

NOTE: I dont truly believe PVP is a joke, as I don't believe people saying PVE is joke. Im just taking in their "version and perception of reality" of PVP-PVE, that, if everything in GW is a joke, why still bother with the game?

This is why I no longer play unless one of my friends wants to clear an area or feels like playing as well.

Darkobra · Feb 03, 2008, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZuRin

have u ever seen anet nerf a pve only skill b4 gwen....

Through your wall of text with bad grammar, I'm going to assume this is a sentence. And the answer to that is YES! Several.

zwei2stein · Feb 03, 2008, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

PVE only skills never ruined a darn thing.

Don't like them? Don't use them. End of story.

If rest of community decides that the only way to do something is having something like bear on you bar you can-NOT just ignore it.

Besides, "just ignore problem" argument is just sooo wrong.

DivineEnvoy · Feb 03, 2008, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

If rest of community decides that the only way to do something is having something like bear on you bar you can-NOT just ignore it.

Let us analyze this argument by translating it into an if-then statement: If the rest of the community decides that the only way to do something is using Ursan, then you cannot ignore it. The current state of PvE still consists of many meta builds and many other random builds, despite the existence of Ursan, and so, the condition, the rest of the community decides that the only way to do something is using Ursan is false. However, it does not make your if-then statement entirely false as you have not stated the condition otherwise; so what's your condition otherwise, so that we should not ignore Ursan?

Secondly, what we have here is a debate, neither you nor me will make the final decision on what will happen to Ursan. In other words, you do not hold the absolute power to decide that Ursan should be changed, nerfed or deleted, instead, you are merely here to state your opinion or trying to convince the rest of us not to use Ursan. However, from your argument, I see otherwise, and here's a breakdown of it. (The brackets are used to isolate the propositions you have assumed in your argument.)

(I don't like the skill Ursan Blessing.)
(I believe that everyone uses Ursan Blessing.)
If the rest of the community decides that the only way to do something is using Ursan Blessing, this skill should not be ignored.
(And so it should be nerfed.)

As we notice here, what you are saying is basically you do not like this skill, and you believe that everyone are using it, which has not been proven. Therefore, based on your belief, Ursan should be nerfed. In simple terms, as I have stated earlier that you do not have any powers into making this decision, you are not here to convince anyone the logical views to what Ursan applies to the game or stating your opinion, but instead, you are forcing your morals down to other people's throats as you believe it is the only correct way to play the game the way you believe is right. That, however, is not true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Besides, "just ignore problem" argument is just sooo wrong.

Basically what we are saying here is that since we all have different instances, there is no way our gameplay can be affected by each other. Consequently, there is really no difference if person A chooses to play meta builds when person B chooses to play Ursan. Perhaps you may argue that Ursan has killed the economy, since so many people run it in DoA, but that was really just the exploit. Just a reminder, you do not set the rules Guild Wars players have to follow.
And here's a list to how Ursan Blessing is not violating the rules that are set to the game:
Ursan Blessing does not involve any third party programs.
Ursan Blessing is not an exploit to the game that was made accessible through hacking, etc.
My question here is, you have often stated that using Ursan Blessing is wrong and immoral, but those were merely your morals, and I believe only Anet's morals matter at this point. So which rules created by Anet have been violated by Ursan Blessing?
Perhaps you can argue that Ursan Blessing has ruined the competence of the game; let me put it this way, this is the 12th Ursan thread I can count to, and if Ursan is really killing the game and immoral as you believe, why hasn't anything been done at this point?
Which implies that your morals are not exactly the same as what Anet has, and so what people in the opposition are saying here is, we understand that you do not like Ursan Blessing to the extend that you will make 12 threads and rant about it, so we tell you this: you don't have to use it.

Secondly, if you are going to claim that someone's argument is invalid or wrong, is it possible for you to actually provide reasons to your claim?

And lastly, I have a question: do we really need all these PvE skills are killing the game threads just because a few people here and there disagree with a decision Anet made?