Curse

Sleeper Service · Feb 06, 2008, 11:02 AM // 11:02

If this is too gamebreaking in PvP (or complicated or whatever) then how about in PvE only.

No im not talking about echoing mending.

Seeing as theres a degen and regen cap of 10, my suggestion is to make certain hexes stack.

it would make degen builds far more viable and give e-degen builds a much needed buff.

of course the -/+ 10 pip rate would not be changed.

I dont think it would make much of a difference to current HP degen builds except for adding a little more target acquisition or utility spells.

E-degen wise it would give them a much needed boost.

Conditions (bleed,burn etc) would not be affected, just hexes.

Logically "pure" HP/Energy regen spells should stack as well but...would end up too imbalanced with the way skills currently are.

So:

- Spells like [skill]Blood Ritual[/skill] or [skill]Healing Breeze[/skill] would NOT stack.

- Spells that do both like [skill]Ether Lord[/skill] or [skill]Life Transfer[/skill] would stack.

A limit to how many hexes of the same name you can put on a single target might be needed for this to work (3 or so i'm guessing)

A quick glance to the concerned skills cool down times seems to indicate little or no changes in that front, casting costs remain the same.

Update:

Ok the main issues that keeps on coming back are:

1. Multiple echoing and spamming of high cost degen hexes like
.

2. Spamming of low cost hexes to cover high value hexes.

For (1) I would like to point out the high casting cost of the hex in question, spamming 25e spells is very feasible but really theres so much more you could be doing with that much energy, especially when you take into account that i'm not suggesting a change to max degen cap. You could have a million Nightmares on your toon, it still would only mean a max of -10 degen.

For (2) the solution is simple: Make hex removal skills remove all the hexes with the same name on target toon.

Div · Feb 06, 2008, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

Logically "pure" HP/Energy regen spells should stack as well but...would end up too imbalanced with the way skills currently are.

And you think having degen stuff stack won't be imbalanced? If I get crap like ether lord stacked on me 3 times, I'm going to kill your kitten.

Alex the Great · Feb 06, 2008, 11:09 AM // 11:09

/notsigned
there's no problem, as no build should ever be just for degening people to death with no other purpose.

arsie · Feb 06, 2008, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Why should there be an exception for degen? No other type of skill stacks. Would you like to stack two Prot. Spirits so that you receive 1% damage?

If you want to bump up regen and degen builds, I would think that moving the +/- 10 to 15 or 20 for BOTH regen and degen would be a more elegant change.

I can't extrapolate the implications for empowering degen/regen, but I don't see them as a problem right now.

Kyrein · Feb 06, 2008, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

And you think having degen stuff stack won't be imbalanced? If I get crap like ether lord stacked on me 3 times, I'm going to kill your kitten.

/agree
ill provide the stew, you provide the kitten

newbie_of_doom · Feb 06, 2008, 11:57 AM // 11:57

I don't see why you want energy regen and healing breeze (care?) to be combined to a certain maxium.

Also why would hexes stack while enchantments cannot anymore (when they do it is overpowered:O)

Nadasee · Feb 06, 2008, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Degen is allready powerfull as it is, and this makes it Overpowerd.
Cast a few degen skills and you will be up to the -10 in notime.

If this would be inplanted then the next thing would be to stack Healing Breeze and other regen skills! Impossible...

/Not signed

Sleeper Service · Feb 06, 2008, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

And you think having degen stuff stack won't be imbalanced? If I get crap like ether lord stacked on me 3 times, I'm going to kill your kitten.

lets take the Ether Lord example:

It has a cooldown of 20 seconds. For someone to have 3 of those stacked they you either have had to be the target of a coordinated attack by several opponents or have come up against an echo build based on E-degen.

The the first case is just a hex equivalent of spike and thats fine. Counters exist, protection exist, hex removal is plentiful.

In the second case its a dedicated E-denial build, making blue bars go down instead of red bars go down should have been a viable kill in Guild wars since day one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex the Great

/notsigned
there's no problem, as no build should ever be just for degening people to death with no other purpose.

? the purpose of a build is to do what you want it to do.

like i said the 10 pip cap remains so in reality there is no change to the rate at which one degens a victim anyways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsie

Why should there be an exception for degen? No other type of skill stacks. Would you like to stack two Prot. Spirits so that you receive 1% damage?

not talking about enchantments. So no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsie

If you want to bump up regen and degen builds, I would think that moving the +/- 10 to 15 or 20 for BOTH regen and degen would be a more elegant change.

I would have suggested that but PVE wise it doesn't work (higher levels), conditions would be affected and thats bad, whats more it still leaves E-degen builds in the dust.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsie

I can't extrapolate the implications for empowering degen/regen, but I don't see them as a problem right now.

the problem is that they suck badly. look at the blood line, terrible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbie_of_doom

I don't see why you want energy regen and healing breeze (care?) to be combined to a certain maxium.

Also why would hexes stack while enchantments cannot anymore (when they do it is overpowered:O)

explained.

not talking about enchantments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadasee

Degen is allready powerfull as it is, and this makes it Overpowerd.
Cast a few degen skills and you will be up to the -10 in notime.

If this would be inplanted then the next thing would be to stack Healing Breeze and other regen skills! Impossible...

/Not signed

Sure its easy to give -10 pips to someone, very rarely does it kill. its not that effective.
Like i said im not pushing for a raise in the 10 pip cap, FAR too many things depend on this mechanic and PvE would become a nightmare.

not talking about enchantments.

rohara · Feb 06, 2008, 01:34 PM // 13:34

no...just no XD hexes are annoying enough as it is, and -10 energy degen would be incredibly overpowered.

MithranArkanere · Feb 06, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

The thing with degen and regen it's that there are much more skills that deal degen and degenerative conditions than ones that give regeneration.

Hexes and nchantmentes are THE SAME. One offensive, the others defensive. But they follow the same patron, just like direct damage and direct healing, they are opposed versions of the same thing.
They even have similar icons.

If you plan to let hexes stack with themselves, you'll have to allow enchantments to to the same.

But it's not like that. You are supposed to have only one effect at the same time on you. A condition replaces the same condition, a shout replaces the same shout, and hex replaces the same hex... etc.

Painbringer · Feb 06, 2008, 03:13 PM // 15:13

/ not signed

If you mean same skills can stack ouch...

I would have fun running a [skill]Conjure nightmare[/skill] x 2 on people in RA (Fast recharge for a powerful spell) it would null any regenerative healing they have. And I could spam it on many.

Jetdoc · Feb 06, 2008, 03:17 PM // 15:17

/not signed. The regen/degen feature is pretty great as it is.

NamelessBeauty · Feb 06, 2008, 03:17 PM // 15:17

I will murder your family if this idea approved.

/100x notsign

Skye Marin · Feb 06, 2008, 03:58 PM // 15:58

The only thing it would do it encourage duplicate use of degeneration hexes that are the most efficient at what they do. It's not a terrible consequence, but there are better things Anet could be doing with their time.

bk359 · Feb 06, 2008, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Why? If you watch Hex stack builds on observor in HA or GvG they are already extremely powerful if run correctly. Can you imagine someone casting Migraine or SS on you and then covering it with 10 copies of parasitic bond or something. Wouldn't it be supar fun to have someone arcane echo ether lord and put two copies of it on your monkz?

MagmaRed · Feb 06, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

/unsigned

Life Siphon would allow some new tanking to be done by Necros. Yes, Necros. Cast Life Siphon on multiple targets and get mas regen. Works great. Your idea would allow them to stack multiple copies of it on multiple targets which kills them faster and makes them even harder to kill. You would definitely see an influx of Arcane Echo+Echo+long recharge degen hexes. Over powered, and unnecesary.

Amy Awien · Feb 06, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Or [wiki]Insidious Parasite[/wiki] ...
Overdone, unbalancing ...

/notsigned

X89 · Feb 06, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

Sure its easy to give -10 pips to someone, very rarely does it kill. its not that effective.

Degen isn't supposed to kill, degen is there for pressure. In its current state degen is balanced, placing this mechanic in the game would completely kill what little is left of any decent play/metagame.

/notsigned

Lady Raenef · Feb 06, 2008, 08:18 PM // 20:18

There isn't even enough regen to save me from all the damn degen. Hell no.

/notsigned

Artorius.Maximus · Feb 06, 2008, 08:41 PM // 20:41

/notsigned

Would be very dangerous with multiple Life Transfers on someone, especially if the max +/- was changed to 15 or 20. That change would make mystic regen too powerful as well, with 3 enchants at level 8 earth prayers I already have +9.