Curse

Kwan Xi · Jan 20, 2008, 09:20 AM // 09:20

oh and BTW all this discussion about filtering elitists out, people using "bad" skills, or the IQ Test ideas.... In the end IT'S JUST A GAME!!!! You just have to accept the jerks and noobs out there, and people that make this game their whole freakin life! I stopped crying about those types of people I just hero/hench whenever I can... it's less stress on me.

I don't know about you but I've been playing for 2 years.... I kinda stopped playing 6-12 hour sessions for awhile now because its kinda getting old for me. I'm already starting to see areas in the game that are literally EMPTY now because of lack of players playing. If it wasn't for heroes I would never be able to get through those areas in the game.

For these reasons I support Heros in the game.

kosh · Jan 20, 2008, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by runeseeker1

We mean the Rangers that run Firestorm,

my 1st toon was a ranger... and guess what i did!!

good old times...

Quote:

Originally Posted by runeseeker1

Ooh, ooh, ooh! And the monk with Power Shot!

thats my buddy roko that still thinks a monk with barrage is a good bar ^^

for the matter in hand, i would like to see pugging in pve again... seeing outposts full with 8/8 groups with 1 human person just make me sad.

is this an mmoprg or what? heroes killed this game along some other things.

Marverick · Jan 20, 2008, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

the truth is, I don't know why people who like to PUG would think the other players are noob or idiots or bad players, if you want to pug, you get all sorts, and you know the possibility of getting a bad players is there, why be so "elite" that you need to weed those that you think is "unworthy" to play with you?

Yes I've come across many very weird characters/players but that's it, and i've also come across many very good players, if you want guaranteed that 100% of the time in your life to get good stuff... well you can't! so H/H it or stop whining.

Lastly, PUG group that often failed miserably that I've been in are not those that has new players (noob as you all like to called them) or players that have bad build, it is always the one that has a very bossy players who thinks they are the most good in the game who shoves everyone around that failed miserably. I can roughly says around 80% of the time this is true. Because when you have someone bossy, another players will be there to counter them and then the typing wars begin.... hence while everyone is typing and insults are flying around everyone dies....

If I follow that line of thought, WHY can I not have 7 heroes, each with 3 PvE skills, then?

The way I see it, the 3-hero limit is an attempt to get us to PuG.

The number of bad players outnumbers the good ones in PuGs by like 100:1. Sorry, not worth it.

And insults only fly when the group is wiping or something. That only happens when there are bad players.

Ok, maybe the IQ test is a bit far-fetched. How about a series of quests designed to test build construction and execution? Then it could have a secondary purpose to instruct people in addition to test them. And it can be retaken once every 3 months.

Quote:

heroes killed this game along some other things

Bad players killed it. Heroes, if anything, actually SAVED the game. If it weren't for them, I'd probably have quit this game already due to the amount of frustration currently present in PuGs.

pumpkin pie · Jan 20, 2008, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

And insults only fly when the group is wiping or something. That only happens when there are bad players.

well, in my experience insults and word wars is usually before the party gets wipe. because the players who are busy typing gets kill while calling other people noob, usually the monk, guess who's not healing someone who insults them...

Isileth · Jan 20, 2008, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Songbringer

A hero shouldn't be as good as a person. You shouldn't get 7 heroes. Your SHOULD want to play with other players good bad or in between. Ur playing an online game with kids from 8 years old to old ppl that r 60 years old. Its an ONLINE game if you don't want to deal with people who are worse then you. GO PLAY A GAME THAT HAS SOLO PLAYER

GW is advertised as a game you can play solo with AI.
So, we are playing a game that has an option for us to solo.

But also this isnt about not playing with others. No, this is about not playing with random others. I play online with friends and guild members, but im not going to PuG.

When they arent on I go h/h.

Should we start limiting guild teams? So that they start taking random players as well?

Of course not. So dont try and do it to h/h.
GW is advertised as a game you can play solo with AI, I purchased it for that reason along with many others. No matter what im not going to PuG, limit h/h and ill just quit.

Dont think you will see a mass increase in PuGs if h/h gets limited even more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kosh

for the matter in hand, i would like to see pugging in pve again... seeing outposts full with 8/8 groups with 1 human person just make me sad.

is this an mmoprg or what? heroes killed this game along some other things.

No its not an MMORPG, its a CORPG.

And no heroes didnt kill the game. Before heroes I used henchmen. Without henchmen I wouldnt have purchased the game.

Heroes gave the game a big boost.

Even back when it was just proph and just henchies you didnt see all that many pugging. The few times I tried back then it would take 20-30 mins to get a team and then most of the time one would go afk or just leave.

And lets not forget seeing several teams spamming "GLF 2 monks and we go".

Without AI it would be almost impossible to PuG your way through any campaign in a reasonable ammount of time.

Now with 3 campaigns and an expansion getting a team in more than 10% of area is virtually impossible.
Without henchmen people wouldnt even be able to form a team.
Without heroes people wouldnt even be able to form a half decent team.

The AI is the only thing holding GW together, take it away and those few pugs will die as well.

Not only would it remove those who play pugs + h/h but a lot of pugs have to use the AI to fill the many empty spots.

Raku Clayman · Jan 20, 2008, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

...PUG group that often failed miserably that I've been in are not those that has new players (noob as you all like to call them) or players that have bad build, it is always the one that has a very bossy players who thinks they are the most good in the game who shoves everyone around that failed miserably. I can roughly says around 80% of the time this is true. Because when you have someone bossy, another players will be there to counter them and then the typing wars begin.... hence while everyone is typing and insults are flying around everyone dies....

This is so true. I usually comment that they haven't taken their meds today.

There are really only 2 places where I go with PuGs, now. Slaver's Exile and DoA. In Slaver's most everyone pings their builds and it is possible to make suggestions if their build has skills that would mess things up. It is obvious if someone is doing it for the first time. It is a good teaching/learning opportunity. While we are standing around getting a group, I can usually explain why a person needs certain skills and needs to not take certain skills. For instance, a Ranger needs to take Frozen Soil to keep the Summits from rerezing immediately and Firestorm is a bad Ele nuker skill because it breaks aggro. Once a person unfamiliar with Slaver's does it correctly, he/she learns what to do and what not to do because all the Dungeons are really easy to accomplish if done right. I like the Slaver Dungeons because everyone has a diverse key role. It can be very difficult if even 1 person messes things up.

I am not as familiar with DoA as I am with Slavers. So, I usually ask for help in terms of knowing where to stand, what skills to bring, etc. Usually there is someone who really knows the quests well and can explain these things as we go. These go very smoothly.

People are afraid sometimes to say they are new or to ask for help because they can be intimidated by those who are bossy know-it-alls. I can say that if you come with us in Slavers and are new, we will help you get familiar with the dungeons, so you can do them over and over.

BlackSephir · Jan 20, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Songbringer

Your SHOULD want to play with other players good bad or in between.

Rofl. I should be able to play however the hell I want, it's none of your businnes how I AM playing. But thanks for trying.

Quote:

Ur playing an online game with kids from 8 years old to old ppl that r 60 years old. Its an ONLINE game if you don't want to deal with people who are worse then you. GO PLAY A GAME THAT HAS SOLO PLAYER

It's an online game that's advertised as a game that allows you to play solo. Don't pretend you know something when you don't.

Dograzor · Jan 20, 2008, 08:05 PM // 20:05

I've scanned trough most of the replies... and i came with an idea...

I read the post about calculation about damage dealt etc etc....

How about Anet develops a general PVE title based on these calculations (eg. amount of XP aquired compared to amounts of death, amount of damage and such things), and let players with a high PVE title be able to be accepted easier in PUG groups....

I liked the old days where the game was more social and it was actually fun to play... now its either your alliance you're stuck with or your bots.... You won't end up in the original situations that can occur with PuG's....

So hmmm.. why not a high PVE title?

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 20, 2008, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dograzor

amount of XP aquired compared to amounts of death

Yay for solo HM farming.

sterbenx2 · Jan 20, 2008, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Bad players killed it. Heroes, if anything, actually SAVED the game. If it weren't for them, I'd probably have quit this game already due to the amount of frustration currently present in PuGs.

QFT. I wouldn't be playing anymore if it wasn't for Heroes. By the time I had played halfway thru Factions, I was tired of PuGs. I jst couldn't bring myself to play even one more mission with them. On average there were 5 or 6 fails before one complete. Pathetic! Nightfall came with Heroes, very interesting these little guys were. I can now do anything I want anywhere, no or very rare fails.

I believe the IQ test wouldn't solve a thing. I think what the game needs is far longer and more instructive tutorial sections. Newbie areas should be longer and more class specific. This would allow a player to become more familiar with what their character is supposed to be doing. Tutorials should introduce new players to each line of their primary and ACTUAL information about their primary attribute and how it can effect their character. Lets face it, as far as the game informing us about how to play our characters, its horrible. Pre-Searing Verta comes to mind. Go kill a scale so I can make a fiend out of it. Quest complete.

Marverick · Jan 20, 2008, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dograzor

I've scanned trough most of the replies... and i came with an idea...

I read the post about calculation about damage dealt etc etc....

How about Anet develops a general PVE title based on these calculations (eg. amount of XP aquired compared to amounts of death, amount of damage and such things), and let players with a high PVE title be able to be accepted easier in PUG groups....

I liked the old days where the game was more social and it was actually fun to play... now its either your alliance you're stuck with or your bots.... You won't end up in the original situations that can occur with PuG's....

So hmmm.. why not a high PVE title?

No, a title with a load of tiers (aka grind) is a bad idea, it would make PvE the whole rank discrimination that is PvP.

And there is no way to get any sort of estimate based on numbers... damage dealt vs deaths? Dwarven boxing ftw... XP? So solo farming the Monolith temple and gaining 5 levels every 15 minutes without any deaths makes one better than everyone else?

zwei2stein · Jan 20, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dograzor

I've scanned trough most of the replies... and i came with an idea...

I read the post about calculation about damage dealt etc etc....

How about Anet develops a general PVE title based on these calculations (eg. amount of XP aquired compared to amounts of death, amount of damage and such things), and let players with a high PVE title be able to be accepted easier in PUG groups....

I liked the old days where the game was more social and it was actually fun to play... now its either your alliance you're stuck with or your bots.... You won't end up in the original situations that can occur with PuG's....

So hmmm.. why not a high PVE title?

Because it is bad idea.

A) possible farmability
B) even more "elititsm", people would rage if they would see possibility of group screwing their titles.
C) those tests would mislabel people. Glads defence tank might end up high on that list. Good monk with good team will get low heal-res-second and spike heal statistics. Bonder in tankway would get a lot of damage prevented scores etc, smart ele with ward or so might end subpar ...

---

OP idea is also bad:

* people will look up answers and walkthroughts in wiki. Follow them blindly and understand nothing about steps in guide and have no clue why they are doign waht they are doing. Or worse, gimmick will be developed to pass it and would do 0 education.
* people might use "cookie cutter" build to pass test, but will immediatelly return to their old ineficient one. Making it no impact. In fact, people who are not used to run efficient build required for that test would be frustrated by it and would be even less likely to run it in normal game.
* people would get mad because they can't use their mesmer with pet spamming conjures. QQ would follow.

Basically, everyone will have that X next to their name and you would be right back at begining.

---

btw: it happened.

BMP:

* shows warrior running dslash-fgj build.
* show ritualist running chanelling bar with some better nukes on it.

Didnt really help, but we can hope that people took good from it and forgot bad.

Factions:

* Insignia quests

Easy to pass by brute force damage and as such having little impact. You cant count on factions character passing them to be good.

Marverick · Jan 20, 2008, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Because it is bad idea.

A) possible farmability
B) even more "elititsm", people would rage if they would see possibility of group screwing their titles.
C) those tests would mislabel people. Glads defence tank might end up high on that list. Good monk with good team will get low heal-res-second and spike heal statistics. Bonder in tankway would get a lot of damage prevented scores etc, smart ele with ward or so might end subpar ...

---

OP idea is also bad:

* people will look up answers and walkthroughts in wiki. Follow them blindly and understand nothing about steps in guide and have no clue why they are doign waht they are doing. Or worse, gimmick will be developed to pass it and would do 0 education.
* people might use "cookie cutter" build to pass test, but will immediatelly return to their old ineficient one. Making it no impact. In fact, people who are not used to run efficient build required for that test would be frustrated by it and would be even less likely to run it in normal game.
* people would get mad because they can't use their mesmer with pet spamming conjures. QQ would follow.

Basically, everyone will have that X next to their name and you would be right back at begining.

---

btw: it happened.

BMP:

* shows warrior running dslash-fgj build.
* show ritualist running chanelling bar with some better nukes on it.

Didnt really help, but we can hope that people took good from it and forgot bad.

Factions:

* Insignia quests

Easy to pass by brute force damage and as such having little impact. You cant count on factions character passing them to be good.

There will only be answers and walkthroughs on wiki if the community puts it up. It will be up to the community to resist the urge to do that.

And following walkthroughs doesn't exactly do anything.. for example, reading how to Monk and actually Monking are two very different things.

The quests here can be in AI teams where, for instance, you have to keep your team alive against a team of 4 hammer warriors with condition & hex removal for enough time to win. Any noob running pure healing stuff will get owned pretty quick, and will hopefully realize that pure healing doesn't work.

Perhaps some sort of quest that needs a high DPS (at least 80). Make it only achievable by Warriors, Dervishes, and Assassins. That way people might get away from the mentality that Elementalists do the most damage.

Or, a 4v4 against a team of dangerous casters who need to be shut down. Give them interrupts to prevent nuking and something to remove spirits (Consume Soul as 2nd elite maybe) to stop spirit forest gimmicks. Teach people how to interrupt and shut down.

Could do the same as above except with a team of melee with enchantment removal and stuff to punch through blocking. Teach people how to use blind and curses.

Winterclaw · Jan 20, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

IMO one of the few ways to improve pugs is to make sure someone isn't running a very bad build. Thus a selection of good builds for people to use would have to be provided. However Anet rarely seems to be able to put together a good build on their own so there's little they can do about it.

Xebedinct · Jan 20, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Honestly, the only way to root out the idiots is to implement a subscription fee. Thus, all the kids who's parents won't pay the fee won't play this game.

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 20, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xebedinct

Honestly, the only way to root out the idiots is to implement a subscription fee. Thus, all the kids who's parents won't pay the fee won't play this game.

Yeah, seriously... ever wondered why Guild Wars is filled with immature idiots? No fee. Implement a fee = they're filtered out.

Isileth · Jan 20, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xebedinct

Honestly, the only way to root out the idiots is to implement a subscription fee. Thus, all the kids who's parents won't pay the fee won't play this game.

That still wouldnt get rid of all of them.

As sad as it may seem there are some much older idiots and people who get their kicks insulting and ruining the game for others etc.

Hell I know one guy whos 34, polite as anything in the real world, the moment he gets ingame he turns into a childish little ball of hate. He plays games to let of steam and says thats what works best for him.

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 20, 2008, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

That still wouldnt get rid of all of them.

As sad as it may seem there are some much older idiots and people who get their kicks insulting and ruining the game for others etc.

Hell I know one guy whos 34, polite as anything in the real world, the moment he gets ingame he turns into a childish little ball of hate. He plays games to let of steam and says thats what works best for him.

What you say is entirely true. Still, we would have... less of them, than we do right now.

mmmkay i am bad · Jan 20, 2008, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xebedinct

Honestly, the only way to root out the idiots is to implement a subscription fee. Thus, all the kids who's parents won't pay the fee won't play this game.

so if the kid's parents pay for their subscription they're not idiots and automatically good at GW?

BlackSephir · Jan 20, 2008, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xebedinct

Honestly, the only way to root out the idiots is to implement a subscription fee. Thus, all the kids who's parents won't pay the fee won't play this game.

And with GW 2 fee-free there's no helping it.