Curse

Rikimaru · Feb 10, 2008, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Pets gaining Death Penalty in PvP from their own deaths is fine in most forms of PvP, only because they rarely ever die there and you never see the effect. But in GvG battles, this makes pets all but useless (until a moment ago when I double checked the wiki, I thought that it only happened in GvG battles).

The reason I assume this was added was because the lack of Death Penalty for pets greatly weakened the effect of deaths on Beast Masters in some peoples' opinions. The problem with this feature though comes from the way in which they added it, combined with two other things that they completely overlooked: Whenever a pet is killed, the Beast Master's skills are disabled for a few seconds, and pets can be killed very easily in PvP due to the fact that their armor is mediocre and they cannot block or properly flee.
Now because of the way in which they added pet Death Penalty, the penalty can add up very quickly if anyone is smart enough to target the pet, causing it to be able to die so quickly, triggering the skills shutdown, that it becomes better to simply leave the pet dead after 2 or 3 deaths to avoid the constant shutdown.
And not only that, but as far as I know they cannot recover from their Death Penalty like the player can.
This makes pets more than useless in GvG battles; they are actually very easily a hindrance.

The way to fix this is simple; I suggest that instead of pets gaining their own Death Penalty when they die, they share the Beast Master's Death Penalty.

God Apprentice · Feb 10, 2008, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

Pets gaining Death Penalty in PvP from their own deaths is fine in most forms of PvP, only because they rarely ever die there and you never see the effect. But in GvG battles, this makes pets all but useless (until a moment ago when I double checked the wiki, I thought that it only happened in GvG battles).

The reason I assume this was added was because the lack of Death Penalty for pets greatly weakened the effect of deaths on Beast Masters in some peoples' opinions. The problem with this feature though comes from the way in which they added it, combined with two other things that they completely overlooked: Whenever a pet is killed, the Beast Master's skills are disabled for a few seconds, and pets can be killed very easily in PvP due to the fact that their armor is mediocre and they cannot block or properly flee.
Now because of the way in which they added pet Death Penalty, the penalty can add up very quickly if anyone is smart enough to target the pet, causing it to be able to die so quickly, triggering the skills shutdown, that it becomes better to simply leave the pet dead after 2 or 3 deaths to avoid the constant shutdown.
And not only that, but as far as I know they cannot recover from their Death Penalty like the player can.
This makes pets more than useless in GvG battles; they are actually very easily a hindrance.

The way to fix this is simple; I suggest that instead of pets gaining their own Death Penalty when they die, they share the Beast Master's Death Penalty.

Beast Master in GvG sounds like failure.....

Rikimaru · Feb 10, 2008, 02:46 AM // 02:46

I use a build that's actually great in GvG, until someone kills my pet a couple times. Then, like any other pet build I become trash. And no, I'm not a trash Bunny Thumper, those things are a joke.

It has great durability, a great self heal, Deep Wound and ~60 DPS.

Curse You · Feb 10, 2008, 02:59 AM // 02:59

/notsigned.

You don't want your pet to die? Heal it or use one of the many pet protection skills that are available to you.

Rikimaru · Feb 10, 2008, 03:02 AM // 03:02

You have no idea what you're talking about. This change doesn't even harm anyone, so unless you know a fair amount about Beast Masters in PvP and therefor know how this would actually be a bad idea, you can't be justified in saying this should not be done.

Are you actually trying to say that Beast Masters are fine in GvG?
And I do heal my pet, but it will die anyway a couple times during the match, and then healing becomes pointless 'cause it's still gonna die, fast. All making this change would do is remove the nightmare spiral in which it keeps dying faster and faster, while also allowing it to recover Death Penalty, because you can.

Curse You · Feb 10, 2008, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

You have no idea what you're talking about. This change doesn't even harm anyone, so unless you know a fair amount about Beast Masters in PvP and therefor know how this would actually be a bad idea, you can't be justified in saying this should not be done.

Pets are not you. They die, they suffer; you die, you suffer.

Many people are far too careless with their pets, they only bring attack and damage skills for their pets and put nothing into healing it. They need to be shown the folly of their carelessness.

It's easy for someone to stay far out of the battle and just send their pet in, so attacking them might not even be an option. Killing the pet might be the only option.

The Beast Master controlling the pet is actually easier to heal and protect. There are a good number of skills that only effect party members, which means they don't heal or protect pets. Making it so that only the Beast Master's death causes the pet to receive a death penalty would give them too much survivability.

The Beast Master is responsible for their pet's well being, but is not the sole source of it's power.

P.S. Nice way to treat someone who has helped write a good portion of GuildWiki.

yum · Feb 10, 2008, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

You have no idea what you're talking about. This change doesn't even harm anyone, so unless you know a fair amount about Beast Masters in PvP and therefor know how this would actually be a bad idea, you can't be justified in saying this should not be done.

Are you actually trying to say that Beast Masters are fine in GvG?
And I do heal my pet, but it will die anyway a couple times during the match, and then healing becomes pointless 'cause it's still gonna die, fast. All making this change would do is remove the nightmare spiral in which it keeps dying faster and faster, while also allowing it to recover Death Penalty, because you can.

There is a character called "monk" you know?

Not harm any1? Ever played TA?

DP on pet is fine as it is. Those "trash" Bunny Thumper create massive amount of pressure; they don't need to be buffed.

Rikimaru · Feb 10, 2008, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Curse You: If you fill your bar with skills to protect your pet, you wont have enough attack skills to be able to do crap, and they wont even have any reason to try attacking your pet then because you'll be too low priority of a target to be worth messing with.

Yum: I have no idea what you're talking about with the monks, unless you're suggesting that I get a monk to heal my pet, but that's never gonna happen. Good luck trying to get one to agree to that hell.
And I wasn't suggesting a buff to Bunny Thumpers, which you seemed to assume simply because I mentioned them. This would not be a buff to Bunny Thumpers; they already have no problems with pet DP in other forms of PvP, and they're 100% useless in GvG with or without this change.

Biostem · Feb 10, 2008, 04:56 AM // 04:56

If you're going to bring a pet, assume it will be targeted, and bring skills to heal/protect it accordingly. If you don't do so, or if you lose track of where your pet is or what it's doing, then be prepared to deal w/ a pet w/ a DP.

pygar · Feb 10, 2008, 06:06 AM // 06:06

/notsigned

Good pet builds are purdy good and need some limits. What you propose would lead to some very nasty gimic builds in GvG (oh look a whole /R team, ouch.) Some teams in RA will already just /resign on you if they see your team has more than 2 Beast Rangers on it, and TA players already hate Rangers and IWAY teams enough as it is.

If your monk wont help heal and protect your beast cuz they dont realize it's value to the team, then they suck. Besides, "Comfort Animal" is one of the most silly good heals in the whole game...and you dont have to have a single pet attack skill on your bar for the beast to be an advantage over opponents.

And yes, very pointless to post suggestions that would be horribly broken on this forum. (take it easy on the people here saying no to your idea....No DP on the pets would be really broken for IWAY players and Rangers in general)

Curse You · Feb 10, 2008, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

Curse You: If you fill your bar with skills to protect your pet, you wont have enough attack skills to be able to do crap, and they wont even have any reason to try attacking your pet then because you'll be too low priority of a target to be worth messing with.

Try these 2:
[skill]Heal as One[/skill] + [skill]Call of Protection[/skill]
If you can't change 1 skill (HaO replaces Comfort Animal and so doesn't count), then your build isn't as good as you think it is. Yes I know Heal as One is an elite, but I also know that keeping your pet alive is higher priority than it dealing more damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

Yum: I have no idea what you're talking about with the monks, unless you're suggesting that I get a monk to heal my pet, but that's never gonna happen. Good luck trying to get one to agree to that hell.

If they don't realize the importance of keeping your pet alive, since your build is focused around it, then maybe you need to find new monks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

And I wasn't suggesting a buff to Bunny Thumpers, which you seemed to assume simply because I mentioned them. This would not be a buff to Bunny Thumpers; they already have no problems with pet DP in other forms of PvP, and they're 100% useless in GvG with or without this change.

Did it not cross your mind that changes can have more than one effect? Never try making a change without first considering all possible effects.

Lykan · Feb 10, 2008, 07:34 AM // 07:34

A pet is member of the party and if its your main source of damage the monks need to watch it. Lrn2gvg imo.

"Spike this pet in 3 2 1 "

MithranArkanere · Feb 10, 2008, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Pets stopped leaving corpses and got Death Penlty because they are meant to be kept alive. They have 80 armor and that armor can be increased with damage reduction and armor shouts.

More importantly, their deaths do not count for the deanth count in battles.

You cannot share your death penalty with the pe because you are not the same creature. They are allies in their own party, after all.