Curse

Link1228 · Feb 12, 2008, 12:11 AM // 00:11

I think same effects should stack (for instance, two Healing Breezes would both give their health regeneration bonus.) The following is merely a longwinded explanation of why I think this should happen, so if you agree, feel free to skip the next two paragraphs of this post. As a side note beforehand, this post can be taken as an angered rant. In actuallity it isn't, I just don't really know how to not make it sound that way...anyways.

There are two reasons I believe this: first, sensically. If two people hit someone with a sword in the same second, both of the swords count, not just one. So if two people use Mending on someone, why does it only have the effect of one? Especially since if you think about it, it'd probably be perfectly fair to have more than one Mending on someone - actually, it would not only be fair, but open up new fighting styles that could be interesting and enjoyable to play with or against. For instance, a team completely composed of monks save one warrior. All the monks put 4 Mending on the warrior, making him, for all intents and purposes, invincible. This is all fine and dandy, but the monks are (as usual) vulnerable and they have a limited amount of MP, and the warrior's defenses can be broken down if you have enough Shatter Enchantments (especially if you killed a monk or two.) And if enough of the monks get killed, the warrior can die as well.

Second, mechanically, it should work. Some skills may have to be changed (Apply Poison, for instance,) but I think for the most part, if the skill was balanced originally, it should be balanced now. For instance, Healing Breeze again. If it would be unfair for two Healing Breezes to heal HP at the same time, logically speaking it would make just as much sense for only one Heal Other to take effect at a time, one Word of Healing, Orison of Healing...etc.

I do accept that there would be some edits required. For instance, speed bonuses would probably be a percentage of the other bonus, for instance, Dodge (+33%) and Windborne Speed (+33%.) Whichever is casted second would probably add +33% to existing bonuses instead of base speed, so the second would only give 33% of 33% - roughly 11%. A similair effect would probably required on some other effects too, such as Protective Bond (I believe is what I'm thinking of) and Life Barrier.

Also, the effects monitor would have to be tweaked slightly to show the differing effects. For instance, if effected by two Poisons, it would have to show how long either lasts. Perhaps you could put x2 on the bottom-right corner of the poison effect, and if you hover over it with your mouse cursor, after the description of the effect it would have the durations of each marked? Probably with the effect's strength too, so like with two Ether Lords, it would mark how much either one was draining Energy along with how long they had left.

Any thoughts? I'm especially looking for observations on the problems this could cause. For instance, how situations like with the monks and the warrior could be exploited and break the entire idea. Also, what skills would have to be changed to accomodate this (for instance, Remove Hex might need changing to "Spell. Removes 1...4 hexes from the target." Or something similair. Also Mirror of Disenchantment, I believe it was called, removes the enchantment from all party members, it would have to be marked whether it removes all of that enchantment or just one from all party members.)

Bo Fairfield · Feb 12, 2008, 12:16 AM // 00:16

echo chain mending!
Finally, my dream come true.

Kyomi Tachibana · Feb 12, 2008, 12:22 AM // 00:22

This might be a sound idea for a different game, but for GW it requires too many changes and would be game breaking.

Imagine an assassin with 4x Strength of Honors and 4x Judges Insights. Then imagine he tosses a Shadowy Burden onto the target, that'd be around +44 damage from the strength of honor, much armor penetration from Judges insight, and -20 armor on the target if it has no other hexes.

Poor monks would never get a break with Daze stacking on them, and melee would have a horrible time with blind bots.

I might not have thought this through completely, I'm still half asleep. But that's my less-than-two cents.

You can't see me · Feb 12, 2008, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Why? Because your reasoning is off. Those two swords are attacking with two different sets of skills, possibly two different attribute levels, damage rates, and most likely at two different times.

An enchantment is different. An enchantment has the same effect constantly. There's no logical reason for them to stack. If another healing breeze is cast on someone, it is renewed. If someone with a higher attribute casts healing breeze, it is renewed and that attribute takes over, same with lower attribute.

The system is fine. Hexes don't stack between themselves, only on each other, just as mending stacks with healing breeze or Succor. Conditions and running times should definetly not stack. Those would be far over powered, as would this new enchantment system.

This would make just about everything in the game /imbamode.

/Not Signed.

MithranArkanere · Feb 12, 2008, 12:23 AM // 00:23

XDDD

Anyone with a basic understanding of the GW mechanics would never agree with this.

Same effects can't simply stack. That would be a bit senseless.
Even with different skills there are limit to what they can give whn used together: 25armor, 10 regen/degen, 33% speed, 33% attack, etc...

In guild wars, a character can equip only 8 skills, 8 different skills.

The current system goes towards teams that mix different builds.

Even spirits won't stack.

Kanyatta · Feb 12, 2008, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Just imagine this idea taking place for a second.

Imagine SoD monking... and having 4 Daze's on you. And if the effects stacked, you'd be casting spells 4 times slower.

Imagine being a Warrior and having 6 blinds on you, waiting for them to either get removed or wear off.

Basically, it doesn't make sense.

agrios · Feb 12, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

/disagree completely

Xx_Sorin_xX · Feb 12, 2008, 12:34 AM // 00:34

this idea gets shot down about once a week i think.

you should check the plethora of other topics about this as to why its a bad idea.

Link1228 · Feb 12, 2008, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Imagine an assassin with 4x Strength of Honors and 4x Judges Insights...

...well dang. I forgot about those two because since I never found them useful. I guess if stuff stacked, that would make those somewhat powerful...of course the Judge's Insight might not be too much of a problem, since I believe it cost 15 MP a shot. Strength of Honor would be a little overpowered with this, though.
EDIT: Well, actually Strength of Honor might not be too overpowered in this. It might, it's a very real possibility, but in your example there at least...Judge's Insight doesn't last long, as I recall, and 4 Strength of Honors would mean a dedicated monk (or several monks weakened, but the amount of MP lost would be the same so you've got the equivalent of being out a monk, at least.) That would be powerful, but it might not be overpowered. At the same time, this is an example of things that might be changed a bit to go with having effects stack.

Quote:

Why? Because your reasoning is off...

Well actually every reason in that first paragraph you list pretty much applies to enchantments, too, except time. And like I said, there's no reason they shouldn't stack. If you have two Healing Breezes, why shouldn't it heal twice as much? Both of them heal you seperately, I'd think that if you have two, they'd both heal you. Similiar to how if you have two Firestorms in the same place, both of them hurt you.

Quote:

Even with different skills there are limit to what they can give whn used together...

Spectral Agony seems to deny that at least as far as health loss. You may be right, I wouldn't know, since nothing stacked, any tests in what the max for each was would be purely academic as I haven't seen many healing spells worth using other than what I use, which is only Troll Ungeunt, Healing Breeze and Mending as far as health regeneration goes, and they hardly ever are active at the same time.

EDIT:

Quote:

you should check the plethora of other topics about this as to why its a bad idea.

I used the search button and the entire first page was full of unrelated topics, I didn't expect to find anything on the other pages. On top of this it wasn't in the Index of Ideas, so I figured there wasn't a thread for it.

EDIT:

Quote:

Imagine being a Warrior and having 6 blinds on you...

Imagine being a warrior with 1 blind on you and you've got pretty much the same thing. The effects stack, not the duration. The duration would be the same as normal. And as for Dazed, Mend Condition / Mend Ailment would follow a similair trail than Remove Hex probably would, it'd remove more conditions with ranks in Protection Prayers, so you could get rid of those 4 Dazed's almost as easily as normal. But if you have Dazed on you, personally I don't find I get many spells off anyway, since if you've been Dazed, you're being attacked, and as I recall Dazed makes you easily interupted.

Bohya · Feb 12, 2008, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Uhhh..(speachless)..i'm not even going to answer that one.

/notsigned...and never will be

Arkantos · Feb 12, 2008, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Once you learn about game balance, you will understand why this is a horrible idea.

Kanyatta · Feb 12, 2008, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Wow, that may have been some of the worst reasoning I've ever seen in your last post Link.

I honestly don't know where to begin, I am completely speechless.

Maybe once you got your PvE-elitist head out of your ass, you'd learn about why some things are IMBA, because you obviously don't PvP if you think Strength of Honor and Judge's Insight are not really good skills.

Sora267 · Feb 12, 2008, 01:18 AM // 01:18

/notsigned

I love it, but it would totally destroy the foundations of game mechanics laid down over the past few years. I'd support this for GW2, though!

Edit: Basically what this post said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

XDDD

Anyone with a basic understanding of the GW mechanics would never agree with this.

Same effects can't simply stack. That would be a bit senseless.
Even with different skills there are limit to what they can give whn used together: 25armor, 10 regen/degen, 33% speed, 33% attack, etc...

In guild wars, a character can equip only 8 skills, 8 different skills.

The current system goes towards teams that mix different builds.

Even spirits won't stack.

Link1228 · Feb 12, 2008, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Okay, this has reached the point of talking to a brick wall. I'll go ahead and leave this forum to its insanity...

Kanyatta · Feb 12, 2008, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Shouting retarded ideas and having people who know something about the game tell you how it is, and then complaining?

Wow, /uninstall please

Link1228 · Feb 12, 2008, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Saying different ideas and having people who might know something about the game tell me how they think it is and then responding, yes. And actually I've considered uninstalling GW a few times and did once because the people in GW regularly tick me off. People like you, actually. People that type the first thing that comes out of their heads and clicks submit post without thinking about your opinion, let alone spell checking, and never once even considering the other person's ideas any longer than it takes to make a half-baked reply. If you're going to disagree with me and comment about it, say something helpful.

The Meth · Feb 12, 2008, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Sorry but that idea would really, really mess up the game. To make it work would force a complete rebalance of skills and game types. With this, for example, Peace and Harmony would go from giving yourself +1 energy regen to giving +6 (ie capped). And the mere thought of stacking healer's boon 4 times is enough to make any offense cry.

Guild wars is basically over, all that will happen from now on is minor tweaks to the game, not a complete change of the skill system.

Darkobra · Feb 12, 2008, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Link1228

Okay, this has reached the point of talking to a brick wall. I'll go ahead and leave this forum to its insanity...

Hopefully permanently.

itsvictor · Feb 12, 2008, 01:58 AM // 01:58

It's really a bad idea, especially with more potent skills, because everything would "explode" really fast. Take the daze example as such or buff stacking, it'd be ludicrous to see how fast things die. It'd no longer be who has more skill but who brought more fire power.

MisterB · Feb 12, 2008, 02:00 AM // 02:00

/notsigned

The reasons why this is a bad idea should really be self-evident if you think about it for a moment.