Curse

Evlesoa · Aug 13, 2005, 05:28 PM // 17:28

I am not for this idea. Strategizing is more important. I mean if there was a feature where you could see the other players mana then im gonna get really really mad! ITS A FREAKING DISADVANTAGE! If you run out of mana and the other team knows they gonna PUMMEL YOU! And gang bang you. I like the idea but this is not something thats a nessecity. It would help tho. So i guess i agree and disagree. Oh i forgot to tell u that all MANA users and Warriors if they run out of Mana means GUILD WARS IS RUINED!

Thanas · Aug 13, 2005, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sturmkoenig

for friends: yes that would be nice and a good enhancement.

for foes: never!
i'm playing my domination mesmer a lot especially in the tombs and showing an enemy energy bar would just make it LOADS to EASY!
the point for a energy drainer is, that he must calculate how much the enemy can have left, if he is shown that by the game it would become imbalanced.

But please can you tell me how you are meant to know if he is draining energy himself or using energy regen or has mana increasing spells. How do you know then?

Evlesoa · Aug 13, 2005, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Dam...i should of said this b4. GOD!!! I HATE WRITING STUFF OVER! Guild Wars would suck ass if this happens. I HOPE IT DOES NOT! Making that you can see who has how much mana after u use it and b4 also the degens and regens. il say this VERY clearly.
ANY MANA USER WILL BE DEAD AND BRING DOWN ALL CASTING TYPE CHARACTERS! You know why? Il be very pissed too because if your a mesmer and you run out of mana usually the enemy does not know but if they do they will PUMMEL YOU! THEY WILL GANG BANG YOU! Meaning if your a healer YOUR AT MAJOR DIS ADVANTAGE! I mean you run out of mana you DIE in a matter of seconds and you cannot do a damn thing. Meaning you fail and everyone goes down to hell with you. I beg you people! DO NOT GIVE THIS SUGGESTION! It will RUIN GW!!!

Sturmkoenig · Aug 13, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

But please can you tell me how you are meant to know if he is draining energy himself or using energy regen or has mana increasing spells. How do you know then?

i watch him, i see the spells he uses and i have experience in my job as a mesmer.
combining this, i can always tell you when you are out of mana.

the clue behind this is, that you need to monitor an enemy a few seconds to tell, and cannot switch the enemy and then immediatly know how much he has... that would be imbalanced.
if you would see for sure in 1 sec that he has less than 10 mana -> mind wrack, energy burn --> 170 dmg in 2sec. THAT is imba!

Thanas · Aug 13, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sturmkoenig

i watch him, i see the spells he uses and i have experience in my job as a mesmer.
combining this, i can always tell you when you are out of mana.

the clue behind this is, that you need to monitor an enemy a few seconds to tell, and cannot switch the enemy and then immediatly know how much he has... that would be imbalanced.
if you would see for sure in 1 sec that he has less than 10 mana -> mind wrack, energy burn --> 170 dmg in 2sec. THAT is imba!

What about the fact that many animations are very similar. What about other players providing energy? Are you always sure what the energy levels of all enemies at a given time are? Are you always optimising your offensive capabilities? Or are you just playing a guessing game for a large majority of the time?

Also if you can currently observe player health and select the weakest? Why is it so wrong to use this tactic with energy?

I'd like to note that these energy bars should only be available through the selection of a foe and not be displayed in a similar manner to for example the group screen where every allies health is in plain view.

Aug 13, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

i partially agree cuz a lot of the times i settle for henchys when i dont feel like waiting for a group and its no fun to stand there so you know that the henchy has full energy. as for enemies, you shouldnt be able to know because then you would have too much of an advantage cuz you would know exactly when you should attack

Sturmkoenig · Aug 13, 2005, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

What about the fact that many animations are very similar. What about other players providing energy? Are you always sure what the energy levels of all enemies at a given time are? Are you always optimising your offensive capabilities? Or are you just playing a guessing game for a large majority of the time?

Also if you can currently observe player health and select the weakest? Why is it so wrong to use this tactic with energy?

I'd like to note that these energy bars should only be available through the selection of a foe and not be displayed in a similarf manner to for example the group screen where every allies health is in plain view.

animations??? what the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO du you look at the animations?? there is a skill monitoring bar and that is what you should watch not the animations.
sry if i understand this wrong now, but atm you sound pretty unskilled at this territory.

and no i'm not always 100% sure, but you can never be that sure in a battle, that is just realistic and i think it's good that way.
i'm also not guessing all the time, as i said, you gotta have experience in this job, that's why mesmer is not an easy job. you need an instinct.

Thanas · Aug 13, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by username

i partially agree cuz a lot of the times i settle for henchys when i dont feel like waiting for a group and its no fun to stand there so you know that the henchy has full energy. as for enemies, you shouldnt be able to know because then you would have too much of an advantage cuz you would know exactly when you should attack

Like you do with health! No don't show health bars, it gives you too much of an advantage! What a ridiculous argument. If anything it makes teams think more about their energy management and strangely enough I think you'd find both teams would have this information. Its hardly one sided. If anything it would help reduce the number of Warrior monk teams and bring about a bit more team variety.

Thanas · Aug 13, 2005, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sturmkoenig

animations??? what the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO du you look at the animations?? there is a skill monitoring bar and that is what you should watch not the animations.
sry if i understand this wrong now, but atm you sound pretty unskilled at this territory.

and no i'm not always 100% sure, but you can never be that sure in a battle, that is just realistic and i think it's good that way.
i'm also not guessing all the time, as i said, you gotta have experience in this job, that's why mesmer is not an easy job. you need an instinct.

You can only watch one player at a time. So would be required to watch player animations to ascetain the activities of the whole team and be sure of the overall energy setup.

So why not remove health bars? Then you won't always be 100% sure of health, thats more realistic and good that way.

Thanas · Aug 18, 2005, 10:31 PM // 22:31

*bump*

Shadowdaemon · Aug 20, 2005, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by spikydude

Agreed.

They should implement a bar showing allies and foes energy. A tiny blue one underneath their health bar perhaps.

OMFG yes, i am a blood necro and my meal ticket is blood is power, i would ove to know how much energy someone has in my party, and this guys idea is EXACTLY what i would like to see

Kampfkeks · Aug 20, 2005, 08:09 AM // 08:09

About my teams energy - sure thing. Why not.
About seeing it on enemies - In PVP -> a big NO, NO! That would just totally imbalance mesmers in PVP and i'd say they would get top priority target even before the monks.

In PVE... i'd like it though. Why? because all those morons that think mesmers do nothing and just sit around can see the effort of my work too.

Thanas · Aug 20, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

About my teams energy - sure thing. Why not.
About seeing it on enemies - In PVP -> a big NO, NO! That would just totally imbalance mesmers in PVP and i'd say they would get top priority target even before the monks.

In PVE... i'd like it though. Why? because all those morons that think mesmers do nothing and just sit around can see the effort of my work too.

Why would it unbalance mesmers?

LifeInfusion · Aug 24, 2005, 02:40 PM // 14:40

There does not need to be a bar, just the number like ___ of 80 energy or ___ of 42 energy or ___ of 20 energy. It can even be ___/Max

Chronic Fatigue · Aug 24, 2005, 03:43 PM // 15:43

On the whole I like this idea.

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but it could give too much of a strategic advantage to the non casters. For instance Meteors takes X amount of time to cast and as soon as it is chosen 25 energy dissappears from the energy bar; the time between cast and action isn't instantanious. Any player taking notice and worth his salt would see it coming and just run before the meteors start to fall.

But we can tell from the animations what is being cast you may cry!! Not strictly true, in the heat of battle a number of things could stop you seeing that ele sneaking off a quick firestorm.

So on the whole for allies YES for enemies NO.

zemelett · Aug 24, 2005, 03:52 PM // 15:52

/signed - for the trillionth time, both for allys and for enemies!!

However if Anet actually ever does this ill probably crap my pants

savanus · Aug 24, 2005, 08:33 PM // 20:33

i agree as well but i think it would also be nice if adrenelin was shown for your own character too.

Artemis Bladewing · Aug 24, 2005, 08:34 PM // 20:34

/signed

Rulke · Aug 24, 2005, 09:28 PM // 21:28

/signed.

To those who claim they can work out the amount of energy a caster has by looking at the skills they use, yes, that is possible, provided some conditions are met:
You know roughly (to the nearest 10) how much the caster had when you started off. I suppose it is possible to judge this from the energy cost of the skills a caster uses, provided you know that they aren't morons/desperate.
You have a perfect or near perfect knowledge of the energy costs of all skills
No-one on the enemy team is doing energy regen, or if they are you know roughly how much and for how long
No-one else on your team has any energy denial skills they are using on them
You can count out 4 seconds near perfectly (slightly over the amount of time it takes to regen 5 energy, with standard caster regen)

This seems to rely substantially on luck, and some amazing skills on your part. Not the sort of thing I would want to try and ease myself into, it seems kinda all or nothing to me. However, a small blue bar under their health allows you to guess at how effective your skills are. You may still be wrong, a half full blue bar may mean 50 energy (in very extreme cases on elems) or it could mean around 20 (on normal casters) or 30 (when they are using a +27 energy item) or anywhere in between, it is impossible to tell, but a nearly empty bar will be a pretty good indication that we shouldn't waste our energy draining skills on them, and a nearly full bar a pretty good indication that we should use them.

It will not overpower mesmers, just as seeing a health bar does not overpower warriors and damage dealers, and seeing when they are using a skill does not overpower rangers and other disruptors.

Also, to those who claim that a health bar is more realistic than an energy bar, because wounds etc. would be visible, it should therefore be fairly granular, nor as smooth as it is not, as it is impossible to tell with great accuracy how much damage something has taken from one look. Of course, you can see if they are badly wounded or not, but not to the extend where you can tell the slight amount of health lost from 3 points of degen.

Finally, to those who say that there is no real way to tell how much energy someone has on this magical world, because it's not realistic, I'll concede that I can come up with no valid counterargument. I can, make an equally valid assumption about this truly unknown plane, and state that the magical attunement spellcasters feel allows them to sense the magical aura of all beings around them, spiritually feeling the energy the others posses, as it is channelled through them and into the pseudo-physical manifestations called skills. Right, that's everyone but R/W or W/R off the hook. It's no argument at all, but neither is that we can't sense the energy levels of people around us, thus neither can the guy I play as an evil raiser of the dead.

Sturmkoenig · Aug 25, 2005, 10:16 AM // 10:16

there was a thread here recently about a mantra of ether which would help monks or other to counter energy-drain mesmers a bit...
they already think energy-drain mesmers are overpowered.

i do not think so, but you think they do not have enough power yet!
there are very simple tactics to know then an enemy is at zero energy, it's called mind wrack.
but only why there seems to be no build on a website that shows you a mesmer build easy enough to play for you, and you cannot think up one by yourself, you do not have to think other ppl are as simple-minded as you.

there are ppl out there, who have been playing a mesmer for month now in the tombs and who seem to know more about mesmers than you do, so accept that for the holy frog's sake!

and again (for starters): there is no energy bar for enemies, because you should not be able to switch target and be able to read his energy in 1 sec.
end-of-discussion, my last word