Curse

Captain Miken · Feb 16, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Mesmers have been fixed already, see here:

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Ursan_Blessing

But in all reality, Mesmers are fine in PvE, they have their own niche, and any good team will accept one, with the exception to tank'n'spank, which is pathetically bad anyways.

Winterclaw · Feb 16, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Urasan is not a fix for mesmers.

Zahr Dalsk · Feb 16, 2008, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Make a duplicate skill of Spiteful Spirit but tie it to Domination and give it a new name and icon. Necromancer SS nukers will still be better, but at least Mesmers would have a chance.

Captain Miken · Feb 16, 2008, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Make a duplicate skill of Spiteful Spirit but tie it to Domination and give it a new name and icon. Necromancer SS nukers will still be better, but at least Mesmers would have a chance.

How do you figure Necros would still be better? If we got an SS duplicate, we would have an AoE SS, a single target super SS vs Melee, and a super steroid popping SS vs Casters.

..

Soul Reaping? Mesmers gain 1.3~ energy per second naturally, throw in Auspicious Incantation + Chillbains or Energetic Was Lee Sa and we're laughing.

MithranArkanere · Feb 16, 2008, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Miken

Mesmers have been fixed already, see here:

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Ursan_Blessing

But in all reality, Mesmers are fine in PvE, they have their own niche, and any good team will accept one, with the exception to tank'n'spank, which is pathetically bad anyways.

While you play as Ursan you don't play as a profession, you play as Ursan.

We are talking about mesmers.

Sleeper Service · Feb 16, 2008, 10:30 PM // 22:30

its something ive been thinking about as well....

So far come up with this:

Give mesmers the ability to stack hexes.

1. only affects the corresponding attribute line.

2. +1 hex at 14, +2 at 16.

this passive ability only works in PvE.

-----

Make Degeneration stack.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...rat ion+stack

but as you can see people are not receptive, nvm they will catch up in a year or so as per usual.

-----

remove the 10 pip degen cap.

Im not in favour of this but hey.

MithranArkanere · Feb 16, 2008, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Nah. that would be going beyond game mechanics. PvE lackings are always fixed better with PvE skills.

Limu Tolkki · Feb 16, 2008, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Miken

But in all reality, Mesmers are fine in PvE, they have their own niche, and any good team will accept one, with the exception to tank'n'spank, which is pathetically bad anyways.

TBH sometimes i find my sf hero better than these pathetic human mesmer trying to interrupt or hex foes. And no, im not using tank neither melee professions. Only casters.

Kanyatta · Feb 17, 2008, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Bad Pve Players are always fixed better with IMBA

Fixed

Your welcome

MithranArkanere · Feb 17, 2008, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Are you serious?

So you think that's it's completely normal that monsters can have skills like Twisted Fangs and Spectral agony and we can't have ours?

Monster skills are also PvE skills.

Since it's imposible to overcome AI limitations, we need both PvE and monster skills.

Terra Xin · Feb 17, 2008, 05:56 AM // 05:56

That's just putting a bandaid over it...

wu is me · Feb 17, 2008, 07:06 AM // 07:06

The best way to fix mesmers in pve is to stick an uber leet monk in every single pve mob, and get rid of all the bs skills that can't be disabled/interrupted on the hardest bosses in the game, then give bosses 4Xhp, 2x skill recharge.

Thats in my opinion.

I think your suggestion makes mesmers too boring =P

Sab · Feb 17, 2008, 12:01 PM // 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

So you think that's it's completely normal that monsters can have skills like Twisted Fangs and Spectral agony and we can't have ours?

Human players have access to the following skill, it's the second most overpowered skill in the game.

[skill]The power of thought[/skill]

The AI is stupid, so the devs make them statistically stronger than humans and give them superpowered skills to make up for their stupidity. If you stoop to the intelligence of the AI and try to fight them by comparing raw numbers, then of course you're going to lose. Or you can think about how to exploit the AI and be good at PvE.

draxynnic · Feb 17, 2008, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by wu is me

The best way to fix mesmers in pve is to stick an uber leet monk in every single pve mob,

And the BHA ranger owns him, or the BH/DS warrior, or whatever. A large part of the problem isn't the mesmer itself, it's that for pretty much everything the Mesmer can do, there's a build available to another profession that can do it better.

Quote:

and get rid of all the bs skills that can't be disabled/interrupted on the hardest bosses in the game, then give bosses 4Xhp, 2x skill recharge.

I can see why they did it, though. Shiro would be pretty easy to take down if Impossible Odds could be Diverted, after all.

Possibly, though, they could have a resistance to skill disabling rather than outright immunity. Cutting the effect of Diversion down to half or even a quarter of its normal duration on a superboss monster skill will allow the party a respite from that skill without necassarily eliminating it from the entire fight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Human players have access to the following skill, it's the second most overpowered skill in the game.

[Unknown skill: the power of thought]

The AI is stupid, so the devs make them statistically stronger than humans and give them superpowered skills to make up for their stupidity. If you stoop to the intelligence of the AI and try to fight them by comparing raw numbers, then of course you're going to lose. Or you can think about how to exploit the AI and be good at PvE.

This is all true, but also on a tangent to the main discussion. The issue isn't that PvE is hard per se, it's that nowadays it appears to be quite difficult to make a Mesmer that can compete with what other characters can bring to the table - without, that is, resorting to Ursan and other PvE-skill gimmicks that basically relegate you to a PvE-skill user in Mesmer clothing.

MagmaRed · Feb 17, 2008, 01:08 PM // 13:08

I play Mesmer in PvE. I play Ranger in PvE. I play Assassin in PvE. I play Paragon in PvE. I play Warrior in PvE. Etc., etc., etc.

Except for a few skills like Barrage, Death Blossom, etc. all those classes are single target attackers. Even Dervish is a single target attacker, but has an ability to hit multiples. The ability to hit groups is not key to doing well in PvE. Elementalist excels at group damage, and Ritualist does quite well also. If you find a need for dealing damage to large groups, either play a different class, or take another player to fill that role.

I'll say I don't like this idea, as it seems to me it would change the way a class is played. Since I enjoy the way Mesmer plays - both PvE and PvP - I'll say:

/unsigned

Tyla · Feb 17, 2008, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

regarding Diversion... Yeah, it's powerful, as it shuts down a skill for a full minute, but on the other hand it's got a _three second_ cast time

66% Casting Time = 1.33 Second (I use 9 Fast Casting anyway...)

Quote:

and all you have to do to avoid it is to not use any skills for 6 seconds. I don't see how you can consider that "THE most overpowered" skill in PvP.

A Diversion at the right time can shut down that skill regardless of how good that player is.
And if they're not using any skills, they're shutdown for the entire duration of 6 seconds and the rest of the backline is open to be spiked by the melee, tell me how this ISN'T overpowered.

What I think anyway. (sorry, killed u man had an answer to this myself aswell

)

@The OP:
/Notsigned
I love playing my mesmer as it is, and I'm having no problems at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limu Tolkki

TBH sometimes i find my sf hero better than these pathetic human mesmer trying to interrupt or hex foes. And no, im not using tank neither melee professions. Only casters.

Because maybe they're a bad mesmer?
My Gwen hero interrupts practically everything with PD!

Also: I don't want more PvE-only skills. Kthx.

RavagerOfDreams · Feb 17, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Arcane Echo + Echo + Pain Inverter

gg

MithranArkanere · Feb 17, 2008, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Human players have access to the following skill, it's the second most overpowered skill in the game.

[skill]The power of thought[/skill]

The AI is stupid, so the devs make them statistically stronger than humans and give them superpowered skills to make up for their stupidity. If you stoop to the intelligence of the AI and try to fight them by comparing raw numbers, then of course you're going to lose. Or you can think about how to exploit the AI and be good at PvE.

It doesn't matter if AI is stupid or not if they have skills that allow them to one-hit kill even if you blind and daze them and you use Protective Spirit.
AI may be stupid, but they still have their power. You can go around that, but that's why they have that power.

Too much powr is wrong, but a little of the lost power due to skill balances encapsulated in single PvE skills harms no one, a good example is critical agility.

Assassins with that would be too much in PvP, since we cannot allow them to go like that in PvP, we remove that 'original' power from the assassin concept in PvP and gather into a skill onl usable in PvE and ding! They can be the critical hit pneumatic hammer they were 'intented to be' against monsters without harming PvP.

Numa Pompilius · Feb 17, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

Arcane Echo + Echo + Pain Inverter
gg

That's two requirement-free mesmer skills, so you get full benefit from them without investing points, and a PvE skill. I'll be sure to pass on the tip the next time someone says that assassins aren't sought after in PvE.

But actually it points to another reason primary mesmers are getting so little love: all the worthwhile mesmer skills can be equally well used by other professions. The fast casting skills are pure crap, and while the ability to cast spells faster protects against interrupts in PvP, it does absolutely nothing in PvE.

Zahr Dalsk · Feb 17, 2008, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Miken

How do you figure Necros would still be better? If we got an SS duplicate, we would have an AoE SS, a single target super SS vs Melee, and a super steroid popping SS vs Casters.

Soul Reaping combined with natural regen. Both necromancers and mesmers have the same natural regen. Throw in Soul Reaping and you have infinite energy without ever needing to add an e-management skill. The closest class to this is level of energy management the Ritualist with AwS that reduces energy costs.

BTW, Energetic was Lee Saa = lol, I tried that quite a lot on my ritualist and it sucks pretty hard.

Auspicious Incantation: Good skill but not nearly as good as Soul Reaping.

And while the mesmer is using Empathy/Backfire, the Necromancer will fire off Reckless Haste and perhaps Price of Failure to further improve the results of SS.