Curse

Zamochit · Mar 23, 2008, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Any 'adjustments' made to skills for the benefit of the PvP community, really shouldnt have that much of an impact on the PvE community tbh.

The PvE only skills more than compensate for any 'nerfs' made to other skills, just adapt and move on, it keeps our builds fresh anyway.

Proff · Mar 23, 2008, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

If this is the case then why cant PVP players adapt to the skills they are given instead of crying for nerfs? A lot of people had already adapted to using skills like LOD and WY, yet they had to be nerfed for PVP despite there already being counters to the skills and ways to shutdown monks and shouts (vocal minority + roaring winds anyone?)

There was absolutely nothing wrong with these skills, except perhaps PVP teams being unable to adapt to counter them and instead just crying for nerfs.

Like it or not skill balances are needed, there just needs to be more than 3 usable elites per profession.

Separating pve and pvp would just be retard-proofing GW, where anyone can just throw some skills together and call it a skill bar (sometimes even forgetting elites). Seriously some players feel it's a waste to pay that one extra plat to have a decent elite on their bar or think that after playing GW for a month their way of playing is amazing cause they just beat prophecies in NM.

It's a game, in easy mode you can get away with running shitty builds but you can't expect to beat the harder dungeons or HM with bars that just don't work and that's not a valid reason to start QQ over here.

Arduin · Mar 23, 2008, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Seperating PvP-skills from PvE is way too complicated for now. If this system will be changed, I bet it will only be in GW2.

Crom The Pale · Mar 23, 2008, 12:15 PM // 12:15

There is no way at present to seperate them, but they really need to be for GW2.

While its been said before I will say it once again, you can't balance a skill so that it works the same when your playing against a live person that has your equal lvl, equal number of attribute points/HP/energy and the same skill set to choose from AND balance it for a lvl 30 monster with extra HP/Energy/Attribute points and a bonus of half hex/conditions or deals Double Damage.

GW2 must have a better division of PvE and PvP or it will die a fast death in my honest oppinion.

Isileth · Mar 23, 2008, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

While its been said before I will say it once again, you can't balance a skill so that it works the same when your playing against a live person that has your equal lvl, equal number of attribute points/HP/energy and the same skill set to choose from AND balance it for a lvl 30 monster with extra HP/Energy/Attribute points and a bonus of half hex/conditions or deals Double Damage.

And yet that monster is still weaker than a standard player. Thats why teams can slaughter big groups of higher level AI in a very short time, yet against another good team of players it can take a long time.

The AI boosts are just an attempt to make them half challenging, they are by no means more powerful and you deffinately dont need more powerful skills to face them.

If its too powerful v a player than its damn sure going to be too powerful v AI.

Tyla · Mar 23, 2008, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risus

Energizing Wind nerf was for the UW solo speed trappers

not PvP

Actually, no.
The nerf was mainly effecting that Bunnyway shit.

In the process, it also hit Speed Trapping.
Think it hit something else aswell...

Kanyatta · Mar 23, 2008, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

why cant PVP players adapt to the skills they are given instead of crying for nerfs?

You obviously have no knowledge of what IMBA is. In HA, it got to the point where it was damn near impossible to counter IWAY or ViMWAY with anything except for IWAY or ViMWAY. The reason LoD got hit, was because literally, every single frigging team had an LoD/Infuse bar, and it was all the same except for maybe 2 skills. It just got way to stale.

Maybe instead of whining about skill updates in PvE you could learn to adapt?

Arkantos · Mar 23, 2008, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehshadowninjar

Personally, I propose they stop the damned nerfs. Who frickin' cares if it's balanced or not? Play the strongest side, you idiots. I liked GW before Assassin, Paragon, and Ranger (only good mainly for Expertise now)'s viability went from around 90% to 0.000000000000000000000000000001%. -.-

You should know what you're talking about before you post, so you don't make yourself look like an idiot like you did in this post.

Quote:

If this is the case then why cant PVP players adapt to the skills they are given instead of crying for nerfs? A lot of people had already adapted to using skills like LOD and WY, yet they had to be nerfed for PVP despite there already being counters to the skills and ways to shutdown monks and shouts (vocal minority + roaring winds anyone?)

There was absolutely nothing wrong with these skills, except perhaps PVP teams being unable to adapt to counter them and instead just crying for nerfs.

Because it's more complicated then that. You can't simply spec against a build, because you're gimping yourself against every other build. Essentially you need skills to support what your build is doing, and skills to counter gimmicks. Skill space gets tight.

Just because an overpowered build can be countered doesn't mean it shouldn't be nerfed. People don't complain because they're too lazy to adapt, they complain because something is overpowered and it should be changed to be more balanced.

Lest121 · Mar 23, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

/Signed

I have have nothing else to say because i hate PvPers, not gonna type up my hate just gonna leave it at that, PvP and PvE are 2 different aspects of GW so IMO they need to have they own Identity.

Stockholm · Mar 23, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

I can't understand what the PvP side would have against a split, you think the PvE part is crap anyway. Or are you afraid that A-Net will realise what a small part of the game the PvP side is?

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Arkantos · Mar 23, 2008, 07:40 PM // 19:40

A lot of PvPers PvE. There's a difference between crap and very easy.

ANet don't have to realize anything. Skills are balanced around PvP, ANet rewards PvP players with real life items, PvP players get multiple types of PvP. All PvE gets is repetitive content and bug fixes. I think it's clear that ANet could care less about the size of the PvP community.

Gun Pierson · Mar 24, 2008, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

It's time for the weekly "split PvE and PVP" thread! Everyone loses except for the trolls!

That one cracked me up! Tx for the laugh, needed that.

On topic: Some things will never change in GW1 and I have a strong feeling this is one of those things.

Angelina Collins · Mar 24, 2008, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

You obviously have no knowledge of what IMBA is. In HA, it got to the point where it was damn near impossible to counter IWAY or ViMWAY with anything except for IWAY or ViMWAY. The reason LoD got hit, was because literally, every single frigging team had an LoD/Infuse bar, and it was all the same except for maybe 2 skills. It just got way to stale.

Maybe instead of whining about skill updates in PvE you could learn to adapt?

You hit the nail on the head, because of what is going on with builds in HA, is what is causing skill balance. Gimmick builds used to farm fame, to gain rank emotes. I can only HOPE Anets marrage of PvP and PvE in GW, gets a divorce in GW2.

As for adaptation of skills due to Balance, for me, I just use builds that I know PvP people will never use, so skill balance effects will not effect me, but when they do, I just play through it, because that same balance also makes the monster skills less effective as well, thus they become easier to kill.

Skill Balance is a double edge sword, as it makes PvP more viable, and builds fresher, it destroys PvE at the same time, by making monsters skills less effective and they don't get the opportunity to change skills like a player, thus our challenging areas become a cake walk. This hurts us, it makes the game for us boring. I like when I have a hard time to beat an area, makes me want to play. Only area's I can't stand are DOA, can't use hero's, and some players are jerks, that is why I do not PvP much.

D E C E P T I V E · Mar 26, 2008, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Not Signed

The skills should keep the same description in pvp and pve, and even separating them will not end balancing issues. PvP crowds would still find skills to exploit and use to farm fame, or someone would see something that they just cant deal with and feel they were beat by skill choice and not "skill" (like a video game really takes an incredible amount of "skill" to play in the first place) and the moaning and groaning would continue. Whats that, my team is running a ranger spike and we are fighting a balanced team chaining aegis and shields up. Thats not fair, let me go cry to mummy Anet. See where im going.

PvE crowds will still find skills to exploit to farm loot in a way that someone will have a problem with for whatever reason.

Guild wars by design cant be balanced. It is a rock papaer scissors kind of game where ultimately the build with the greatest advantage wins as long as it is played perfectly which doesnt really take a whole lot of "real skill" to do, just a click of the mouse button on the right skill at the right time and a general understanding of what they are doing by everyone on the team.

I think the answer for the PvP crowd is really looking at ways to bring human error and team dynamics into the game in some way instead of just looking at only skill balance all of the time. Maybe by adding different environmental or team effects that could be gained through controlling different points on the map to GvG or HA sort of like hero battles. For example if Team A recognizes that Team B has an edge because of a defensive advantage that they cant kill through but a weak spike, controlling something like a health shrine may be enough to give them the edge pressure longer and enable them to get a kill. That is just one example that could be applied in lots of different ways. You could also have different types of shrines in addition to the flagstand.

I D E L E T E D I · Mar 26, 2008, 03:14 PM // 15:14

/notsigned

There are people who PvE and PvP at the same time and playing the same bar all the time gets really boring. And no i wont change my bar to a subpar skillbar, i always will play the best bar out there. And i am glad Anet makes these updates to shake things up every once in a while.

AB got really boring when everyone and their Mother played SP sin, it got really boring when everyone played Eles.
GvG got really boring when every team had LoD on their monk bars.
HA got really boring when most teams you faced were IWAY or SWAY and now escapeway.

And its the same for PvE, Sabway is the PvE meta hero build. MindBlast eles were the meta for it on eles, dslash is on wars, and so on and so forth.

Fear Me! · Mar 30, 2008, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

PvP balances keep PvE interesting. Stagnant skill bars leads to stagnant gameplay.

/not signed once more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

No, they shouldn't.

PvErs need to learn how to adapt. We have every skill in the game and overpowered PvE skills. Stop getting mad because your powerful skill got nerfed and use another skill to replace it. As long as you don't suck at the game, there should be no problem. I mean seriously, no skill nerf should drastically affect you. There are over a thousand skills in the game, replace the skill that got nerfed. You'll still have the ability to easily roll the AI.

/not signed.

Drakken Breathes Fire · Mar 30, 2008, 05:58 PM // 17:58

I think they should remain the same.
There are pvp elements in pve, aren't there?
Why should we learn changes to two sets of the same skills?

'Okay, last week they buffed *skill name here* for pve, but in pvp it's stil crap.. so I'll use *skill name here* because it was recently buffed in pvp, but still crap in pve. Wait, why have I gone cross-eyed?'

It's too much bollocks.

Molock · Mar 30, 2008, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Its not like we need normal skills in PvE anymore...

Don't get me wrong.. I hate Ursan.

On a more serious note, I don't think the skills should be seperated into PvE version vs. PvP version.

RiKio · Mar 30, 2008, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Yes.

But remove PvE skills and Consumables.

Red Sand · Mar 30, 2008, 08:17 PM // 20:17

/notsigned due to lack of good reason to separate them.

Plenty of skills for you to use the ones you like, discard the one's you don't.

Inevitably, they'll make new ones that you'll like better.