Curse

Samuel Dravis · Dec 03, 2006, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by yayrichie

/notsigned
Even with the restriction of having to beat a campaign as a requirement for using a character as a hero and for a character to be used as a hero, I still think this feature would cause several imbalances. One of Nightfall's main attractions is being able to use heroes; making all of your other characters available for use in your party after they beat a campaign would make buying Nightfall less appealing, especially to older players who have beaten Prophecies and Factions with several characters. Additionally, adding the alternate-character-as-hero feature would give an advantage to already seasoned characters who have an army of PvE characters available to them, as actionjack said above.

I think the restriction was that you have to finish Nightfall on that character (the one you want to use them with) before you unlock them. Obviously you can only get heroes if you have Nightfall. If I wanted to use my monk as a hero on my necro, my necro would have to finish NF. See?

Your other point is not making much sense to me. Older players do have benefits in relation to new ones. They will always have more benefits - more gold, more characters, more versatility, more experience, more fame, better/rare weapons etc etc. How does that make having more people somehow unfair? If the new people put in the same amount of time to create those characters they'll have their own army. Since you will have to beat the NF campaign just to get them, there'd be no problems with low-level chars getting them, and since it's endgame you'll already have all the other normal heroes at that time anyway. I can see how using PC-heroes would cause problems in PvP, but if so just make them unusable there (normal ones can stay). In the HvH arena it wouldn't matter.

TehGhost · Dec 26, 2006, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Sorry. This is rather irrelevant, but I found no other place to post it. I thought I’d just take a quick moment to express my dislike in the matter of the Hero’s. Normally a game such as this is meant to meet other people and work with them. I absolutely despise the idea that humans are being replaced by APC’s (Hero’s) on some quests it is mandatory you take one with you. This is ridiculous. Recently I was playing with a group of people, and took forever to find these people may I add. We then decide to stick together. However we are then forced to kick one player to make room for an AI. I think this is a horrid idea, and don’t know what they were thinking.

Threepwood · Dec 26, 2006, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by TehGhost

Sorry. This is rather irrelevant, but I found no other place to post it. I thought I’d just take a quick moment to express my dislike in the matter of the Hero’s. Normally a game such as this is meant to meet other people and work with them. I absolutely despise the idea that humans are being replaced by APC’s (Hero’s) on some quests it is mandatory you take one with you. This is ridiculous. Recently I was playing with a group of people, and took forever to find these people may I add. We then decide to stick together. However we are then forced to kick one player to make room for an AI. I think this is a horrid idea, and don’t know what they were thinking.

Agreed. But this knife twists on both sides:
On the one side you have people that want to adventure with other people, but can't find anyone because they're with heroes. On the other side you have the people that depend on 'controllable' AI rather than risking people leaving the party during a mission.
And for some missions, a hero is REQUIRED. They could change this so that at least one person in the team has that same profession as the required hero.

In each party there usually is one player with an attitude problem, thinking he's way better than the rest (not to mention the irritating noob-calling if one dares to disagree with this 'fact'). This player a) tends to screw the mission up by not following party policy or b) will leave mid-mission, which is not fun for the other players. This is one of the main reasons why people opt for heroes instead of other people: they're reliable and in some cases much better than humans (e.g. ranger/mesmer interrupters)

However, the game could increase the working together part, like in the Elonian Domains: more human players in your team makes even the masters quest as easy as monkey pie. Those things should be stimulated more, so that heroes are only chosen if one can't find a team.

My three eurocents

TehGhost · Dec 27, 2006, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Your points are well taken and very true. I agree with you. That or I think that where the AI’s are mandatory, they should simply not take up an extra space in your party. Of course, by doing this there is an extra member in your party, which makes things unbalanced, creating another problem. I suppose it’s a touchy situation.

Samuel Dravis · Dec 27, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

I agree. I absolutely despise the required heroes for missions. It made me have to kick someone for no reason (an all-human group). I hate that.

GedLongbow · Dec 27, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

So your saying that you would take a level one character from Pre-Searing and take him to Torment and Power Level him so that he's a lvl 20 pwning device in Pre....no, I don't think this would work. This is the exact OPPOSITE of what Heroes were meant for. To SUBSTITUTE players, not BE them.

That's what your doing, right?

roalgumo7 · Dec 27, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

It could be ok, but scince, like Knightsaber sith said, this would just be easy power lvling, maybe have them be able to act as heroes just if they are lvl 20

But nah.

Beqxter · Jan 04, 2007, 12:19 AM // 00:19

My major attraction to this idea is more along the lines of storyline progression than leveling or anything like that. If implemented correctly, I don't really see how this needs to be any different in terms of gameplay from the current setup, but it would allow me to take four characters through the game simultaneously instead of over and over (and over) again in order to get them to such-and-such zone so they can cap, or to get skillpoints, etc. As the chapters keep coming and my stable of characters keeps growing, it's quickly growing unworkable and exceedingly tedious to bring them all through.

With the following limitations, would it be workable?

* You cannot take another character as a hero until you reach the entry point for foreign characters in a chapter (ie Consulate Docks in Nightfall) - to prevent powerleveling.

* Gold and drop distribution works the same as with heroes and hench - ie, you don't get it if they're along. However, just like heroes get XP from quest rewards and missions, your other characters would as well.

I mean, with those in place, isn't it essentially just a matter of skins in terms of gameplay? And I would only have to do a chapter a couple of times, instead of, oh, TEN.

falling demon · Jan 04, 2007, 12:48 AM // 00:48

ooh can i have 4 warriors all with the same armour/weps, then i can make them all whammos and create myself a whammo party with me and my identical 3 heroes

KiyoshiKyokai · Jan 09, 2007, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beqxter

My major attraction to this idea is more along the lines of storyline progression than leveling or anything like that. If implemented correctly, I don't really see how this needs to be any different in terms of gameplay from the current setup, but it would allow me to take four characters through the game simultaneously instead of over and over (and over) again in order to get them to such-and-such zone so they can cap, or to get skillpoints, etc. As the chapters keep coming and my stable of characters keeps growing, it's quickly growing unworkable and exceedingly tedious to bring them all through.

With the following limitations, would it be workable?

* You cannot take another character as a hero until you reach the entry point for foreign characters in a chapter (ie Consulate Docks in Nightfall) - to prevent powerleveling.

* Gold and drop distribution works the same as with heroes and hench - ie, you don't get it if they're along. However, just like heroes get XP from quest rewards and missions, your other characters would as well.

I mean, with those in place, isn't it essentially just a matter of skins in terms of gameplay? And I would only have to do a chapter a couple of times, instead of, oh, TEN.

I would agree with beqxter. If you put real restrictions (like getting to the travel cities, though I would say ascention/wuh no seh/sunspear general rather than just reaching cities)., on this, it works pretty well. In addition, those of you griping about powerlevelling characters: if it takes you more than 10-15 hours to get any character to level 20 (especially with the advent of Cantha O_O), you're just not doing something right. The only problem I could see of this is if new players could abuse it to get overpowered at the start of the game, and since they wouldn't have any other level 20 characters on their accounts yet, that's plainly impossible.

But really, once you've been to a place with one character, beaten a mission once, etc. There's not much allure in doing it again and again. I wish protector and explorer titles were account-wide, rather than forcing me to redo everything over and over just to get a certain skill cap or hunt for a certain item. But that's another rant...

Quote:

Originally Posted by falling demon

ooh can i have 4 warriors all with the same armour/weps, then i can make them all whammos and create myself a whammo party with me and my identical 3 heroes

You're already 75% there with you, Koss, and Goren. What's one more really holding you back?

I'm 100% signed. I'd rather have my cool-looking characters that I've been with for 20 levels following me around than some "heroes" that I don't really like/care about.

odly · Jan 09, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

I would set the following limitation : You can add your own characters as heroes only if they are 'protector' of the campaign where you are travelling. It would give an incentive for getting those titles.

/signed.

I like the idea.
After all if you have finished the game you are proclaimed heroes as well, so why not ?

I'd like it if I could do skill capping for multiple characters at once this way. Abuse or not I'd liek it.

Vàna Rúndóttir · Jan 13, 2007, 10:49 AM // 10:49

I have more than one account and more than one computer so I can already run myself places and even synch dance on my own! But being able to get extra drops with only one account using multiple characters doesn't feel right.
If this idea meant only that I could replace the appearance and name of a hero of a certain profession with a character I'd made of the same profession then I think that would be fun though. My own characters are more appealing to me than the heroes. But when used as heroes I think my characters should behave exactly as heroes would, i.e. no extra drops for them, no extra storage, no use of mini pets, just to keep the balance of the game right and leave the advantage to those with multiple accounts and computers : )

Hamanaqua · Feb 01, 2007, 09:16 PM // 21:16

I saw this thread and had to comment because I've thought of it myself. As for the powerleveling; you'll notice that if you bring your Tyrian chars into Nightfall, their base level is adjust accordingly to the level of the character using them. So basically all that would have to happen is a little calculating on the part of the game's mechanicas to adjsust the attrabute points of existing char heroes to coincide with the character you are running.

I think a lot of this would depend on how much character data is saved on the GW servers vs. how much is saved on user PCs. Also, do you just get player-char heroes or do you have to earn them or do a quest to get them?

Another problem with the idea is it nerfs the whole community aspect of GW which I'm sure NCSoft is unwilling to do.

scott_wollman · Feb 10, 2007, 08:43 AM // 08:43

I have to say, I LOVE the idea of using your current characters as heroes. I, personally have learned a LOT about how my heroes use thier skills and have come up with some amazing hero builds (eg. olias uses death nova a LOT). Being able to use a character you have already bought 15k armor for would be sweet. They would FAR out do current heroes. I would like to see the hero system incorporate something like this for characters who have reached L20 or have some monetary restriction like a trader. Keep in mind heroes can ALREADY run you places. Koss and goren for example, each using "charge" to move you faster to the next zone.

The big thing I would like to see is system where all heroes an a single account are SHARED. Meaning a heroes level, all armor and weapons assigned to one hero are assigned to ALL heroes of the same name on your account. I have 8 charcters currently and having to buy weapons for each one's 15 diffrent heroes is expensive. and each new expansion will have more classes right? having to level up THOSE new heroes in the current environment with each of my new characters as well as the old ones will causes a LOT of time-mangament problems. eventually, I would not be able to play thru all the campaings as each character. If Arenanet wishes to implement theses changes they could un-equip all the heroes and give players the runes, insignias, weapons ect in an 'unlcaimed items' window. A message informing the player that the heroes have been merged and the highest level of each individual hero of the same name has been assigned to the new shared hero would be helpful. For example, I have 8 characters and one has a level 20 goren. The rest of my characters have him at his default level. Now that he is shared, only the strongest of them all would remain (L20).

I believe a hero control flag for your pet would be nice too, eg. if charm animal is equipped, a control for attack or do not attack (like the heroes) would help for pulling. Or maybe a hero flag for your pet? I have other pet ideas but as they do not concern the hero system I'll post them elswhere.

Thanks for reading this!

Cherrie · Feb 10, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

I don't see a problem with powerleveling:
-annother 'you' added to party would have to be level 20; quest that would make it possible to add your other chars to party would be obtainable only after beating a game somewhere (Tyria, Cantha, Elona, whatever - preferably not Tyria, it's possible to beat it with low lvl). There are many other things to make it work ^^

-farming: no problem either; your chars would act just like other heroes and you wouldnt get drops for them.

It's an interesting idea, but would have to be implemented with care. But I like it!

/signed

@odly: I think protector would be too high requirement, would leave too many people/chars out.

daraaksii · Feb 10, 2007, 09:19 AM // 09:19

/signed if you can pick only lvl20s.

Just_ A_Nightmare · Feb 10, 2007, 09:33 AM // 09:33

not signed if there were tons of me
a it would be creepy
b theyd take all the bagels

Silas Verdeii · Feb 13, 2007, 06:10 AM // 06:10

since all the skills on your characters are available to heroes and your weapons are transferable those two issues wouldn't be changed by this. that being said, the concern over powerleveling is alot more genuine. therefore i would propose this alternative:
when you start a new character and get past the first tutorial(to the point where henchmen/pugs etc are available to you) you can unlock(either free or for gold...whatever) a lvl 5 version of your other characters. the skins would be the same as the character that it's representing however everything else would be at newbie level(attribute points, runes, lvl, etc) then it couldn't be used as powerleveling but once you get them up to lvl 20 you have another group of heros(who fit into the storyline as well as you do) to play around with in missions etc and it'll make it easier to personalize your heroes skin wise(which is always fun imo) and vary the combinations of your 3 hero team(though i think it would be awesome if they could be henchmen too but i know that would be alot harder and therefore less likely to happen)

The Silver Star · Feb 13, 2007, 11:02 AM // 11:02

/unsigned

Stop making this game a 100% RPG, it was supposed to be a MMORPG....

If you want an RPG go buy one dont try and change a game into something its not.

Thanks.

Samuel Dravis · Feb 13, 2007, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Silver Star

/unsigned

Stop making this game a 100% RPG, it was supposed to be a MMORPG....

Eh, it wasn't and isn't a MMORPG.

Quote:

If you want an RPG go buy one dont try and change a game into something its not.

It's already an RPG. There's such a thing as PvE and storyline, remember? Why would they bother with that if you're character is not supposed to be roleplayed? If you've got a good reason why this shouldn't be allowed, then let's hear it. Until then, you're just coming across as some sort of reactionary.