Curse

Gregslot · Apr 16, 2008, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Oh hi!

Today i have been testing some really weird builds to use with my heroes and i came up with a considerably decent one for my assassin hero.
While i was testing it at the Zaishen training grounds i was looking at the assassin's skill bar and i noticed that when they get into battle, they start using their combos and etc (wich is good).
I gave Anton some quick spammable skills like Unsuspecting Strike, Wild Strike and Death Blossom but at the time he ended the combo... he just would take about 20-30 seconds to start the combo again.

And there were similar skills that acted the same way, but should be acting differently: Critical Defenses and Flashing Blades.
From what i noticed, these both skills are used by the hero when he starts getting hit a lot.
While for Flashing Blades this is good, for beeing a stance and therefore instant, Critical Defenses is a Enchantment and takes 1 second to cast, WICH MEANS, its most likely going to be interrupted because, if you are beeing hit, there are melees, ranged and casters aiming on you.

Resume:
*Make assassins use theirs combos A LOT more frequently.
*Make assassin heroes use critical defenses when getting into battle (at half way of the target, so it wont go away before getting into the enemy)

jhu · Apr 17, 2008, 12:07 AM // 00:07

i turned mine into a rit healer. works decently, but not as well as an n/rt healer.

Killed u man · Apr 17, 2008, 12:19 AM // 00:19

The problem here is Anet's mistake of not letting us have an AI-tree.

From the beginning, we should have had a small panel, in which we can explain the skill usage of the bar for the Hero.

This would go from very simple to more complicated "guidelines" for the Hero to follow, e.g.:

Arcane Echo => Savanah Heat (So you won't have to manually disable/use both skills, this line will "teach" the Hero that after Arcane Echo, SH needs to be cast)

The tree could reach VERY far, as far as Anet allowed us to smarten our heroes... (E.G. the "more" you played with your heroes, the more "guidelines" you would eventually add and the better he gets)

Assassin combo's would have been easy to pulll off then

@jhu, I don't even want to know why u have a A/Rt Healer

HawkofStorms · Apr 17, 2008, 12:27 AM // 00:27

The Assassins heroes have a LOT of problems.
Most notably, they seem to only understand lead > offhand > dual attack combos.
Giving them Mobius strike and they won't use it properly. Give them golden phoenix strike, and they won't cast an enchantment on themselves so it can be used. Give them a hex and black lotus/spider strike and they won't use them.

Super Igor · Apr 17, 2008, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Hmm, yes, big problem which makes them near useless.

A/D does work good though.

~Super Igor

~

Gregslot · Apr 17, 2008, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

The problem here is Anet's mistake of not letting us have an AI-tree.

From the beginning, we should have had a small panel, in which we can explain the skill usage of the bar for the Hero.

This would go from very simple to more complicated "guidelines" for the Hero to follow, e.g.:

Arcane Echo => Savanah Heat (So you won't have to manually disable/use both skills, this line will "teach" the Hero that after Arcane Echo, SH needs to be cast)

The tree could reach VERY far, as far as Anet allowed us to smarten our heroes... (E.G. the "more" you played with your heroes, the more "guidelines" you would eventually add and the better he gets)

Assassin combo's would have been easy to pulll off then

@jhu, I don't even want to know why u have a A/Rt Healer

i posted this some time ago but a.net obviously didint took it into consideration
it would solve your problem, my friend
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10246060

Div · Apr 17, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Melee heroes all have problems. For example warriors not spamming dragon slash every hit with FGJ on, but instead autoattacking for 10 seconds before hitting it again. Dervishes are amazingly dumb at stuff like wearying strike, even in Melandru form.

Winterclaw · Apr 17, 2008, 02:46 AM // 02:46

An FFXII style system for when to use each skill and which ones should have priority is needed. Then we might see decent hero AI if we can program it ourselves.

Arkantos · Apr 17, 2008, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Melee AI in general needs to be made better. Right now all melee heroes and henchies are crap.

Winterclaw · Apr 17, 2008, 02:54 AM // 02:54

So what's the best way to improve it? Watch how the best players would run a bar (maybe let ensign or some other top player design the henchie builds) or use a skill and try to pattern the AI off of them?

Arkantos · Apr 17, 2008, 02:58 AM // 02:58

AI has nothing to do with how human players play. AI will never be able to play as a good player.

Anyways, the way they use skills is the main thing. They use their skills horribly, which makes them, well, horrible. There are also other minor problems that I'm too lazy to think of right now.

RavagerOfDreams · Apr 17, 2008, 03:51 AM // 03:51

scythesin heroes work well enough

use those ^_^

Bront · Apr 17, 2008, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Yeah, Melee heroes need to use their attack skills a bit more often. I've found Warriors are a bit better than the others, but even then, they aren't great.

AI tweeks are rough, so I doubt we'll see something, but it would be nice.

/signed.

legion_rat · Apr 17, 2008, 12:52 PM // 12:52

I dont run with melee heroes unless its required (screw you koss). As for the sin heros. make them crit barrage. They use it very well. keep up all the enchants and spam barrage like mad. I use c/b with a pet to add in a melee attacker thats smarter than the heros.

/signed to smarten up ALL melee heros though

~the rat~

Fear Me! · Apr 19, 2008, 12:20 AM // 00:20

/agree. Sin hero ai is terribly afflicted with lolcats.

sixofone · Apr 19, 2008, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Assassin attack chains must be tricky for the AI to figure out. And I think ANet have tried to tell Zenmai to attack and run (which is really what a sin should do because they're not a tank!) because I have given her a very simple lead->off-hand->dual strike - only 1 of each - on her bar, and she doesn't execute it correctly!

She will run in and use her lead, then either run away or wait to spam it again. She seldom uses her off-hand - and that may be my fault for giving her [wild strike] even though it doesn't have to break a stance to do the +damage. But, I have also given her [blinding powder] plus [death blossom] and she almost never uses them! Mostly, she is running in, hits with her lead, then runs away and will stand there for about 10-15 seconds and run back in. ??

I hate to micromanage, and Koss usually works better as a Quivering Blade W/N for me. So, I've begun to use Zenmai for interrupts using [disrupting accuracy] with [critical eye]. (I could use her for critical barrage, but I like to interrupt a lot.)

If only they made Hero AI at least as "smart" as mob AI - that would be something!

Tyla · Apr 19, 2008, 01:35 PM // 13:35

ALL AI should be redone.
ALL AI is incredibly retarded.

Faer · Apr 19, 2008, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Watch how the best players would run a bar or use a skill and try to pattern the AI off of them?

The best players would run a bar in the best possible way for the current situation. To make a hero do that would require a lot of coding. Way too many variables to consider, so it's simply not feasible.

Phoenix Tears · Apr 19, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

The problem here is Anet's mistake of not letting us have an AI-tree.

From the beginning, we should have had a small panel, in which we can explain the skill usage of the bar for the Hero.

This would go from very simple to more complicated "guidelines" for the Hero to follow, e.g.:

Arcane Echo => Savanah Heat (So you won't have to manually disable/use both skills, this line will "teach" the Hero that after Arcane Echo, SH needs to be cast)

The tree could reach VERY far, as far as Anet allowed us to smarten our heroes... (E.G. the "more" you played with your heroes, the more "guidelines" you would eventually add and the better he gets)

Assassin combo's would have been easy to pulll off then

@jhu, I don't even want to know why u have a A/Rt Healer

can only agree on this, heroes should have received from the begin on a Gambit System, like in FF12, this way to tell the AI what it should do in different situations is just perfect

legion_rat · Apr 20, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Simply make them follow the chain as you build it would be good, I have seen some cool warrior builds and derv as well but heros just are not smart enough to use them.

~the rat~