Curse

DarkNecrid · Apr 26, 2008, 05:54 AM // 05:54

So, I think anyone can see that PvP is basically going to become really stale asap. There's not really many BIG IMPROVEMENTS going on except skill balances, and thats not enough for some people.

What I am proposing are ways to improve already existing PvP modes, add some new ones that will help bridge a link between PvE and PvP, and such.

PART A: Add Tiyuri's suggestion.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10240284

Enough said.

I'd like to add the ability to create event modes through this as well. Stuff like a scrimmage Dragon Arena, with no rewards, any time.

PART B: Enhancing existing gameplay modes
*Add a Priest of Balthazar to the Rollebeetle Racing area, the Dragon Arena area, and any other event areas that have enter battle and don't have PoB. There is no reason for them to NOT be there.
*Prevent synching in Random Arenas from people in the same guild + alliance.
*Possibly double Balth faction rewards across the board.

PART C: New Modes
*I know this is PRETTY SILLY, but Costume Brawl was a huge succes. I saw a lot of people from PvE, and they were doing excellent in it (after awhile) because with defined (legal) skills, and defined equipment and such, everyone could GET INTO THE GROOVE of the game mode. So make something like this, maybe not called Costume Brawl, but with the same mechanics, more maps, and let people play.

PART D: Enhanced Rewards
*Everyone likes rewards. I came up with an idea, what if you took the idea of Victory Tokens/Zaishen Medals/etc and merged them for PvP. Call them idk Balthazar Tokens or something. You earn them in every game mode (in various amounts), and can turn them in for anything you can turn a Victory Token in for, anything you could turn Zaishen Medals in for, etc.

Complete List of what you could use these Tokens to buy:
* Sugary Blue Drink
* Bottle Rocket
* Sparkler
* Champagne Popper
# Bottle of Rice Wine
# Red Bean Cake
# Flask of Firewater
# Crème Brûlée
# Scroll of Adventurer's Insight
# Scroll of Rampager's Insight
# Scroll of Hunter's Insight
# Flame of Balthazar.
# Golden Flame of Balthazar.
# Celestial Sigil.
# PvP White / Black Dye? Can't be sold to merchants / traded?
# Possibly add special minipets to this thing?
# Possibly add unique to PvP things?

The last 2 mostly to entice PvE'ers into trying it. They could earn those rewards in the more casual and fun & less "elitist" areas like the new "Costume Brawl-like" areas, etc. It'd just possibly be quicker elsewhere.

Thoughts?

Yoshikuni Mahsu · Apr 26, 2008, 06:33 AM // 06:33

I must say I do like the idea of "baiting" pve'ers into PvP, as the [hardcore] PvP community is on a huge downward slide right now, this could possibly get more into the high end PvP scene.

Have the rewards scale to the level of PvP (EX: "costume brawl" thing would be 1x the rewards, TA 2x, HA 3x, gvg 4x etc. etc.) Kind of like leaving a trail of cookies leading from PvE to high end PvP.

DarkNecrid · Apr 26, 2008, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoshikuni Mahsu

I must say I do like the idea of "baiting" pve'ers into PvP, as the [hardcore] PvP community is on a huge downward slide right now, this could possibly get more into the high end PvP scene.

Have the rewards scale to the level of PvP (EX: "costume brawl" thing would be 1x the rewards, TA 2x, HA 3x, gvg 4x etc. etc.) Kind of like leaving a trail of cookies leading from PvE to high end PvP.

Yeah that would be the intent.

I think the thing to realize is that even the hardcore PvE'ers will PvP if there's an enough of a reward for them in it. ie: Costume Brawl. I had teams FULL of people who just PvE'd (were in PvE guilds, had max PvE rep titles, etc.) but with a specifc set of skills, a specific set of items, not only is it easy to balance and way more fair initially, but it's easy to learn. You could learn any of the given bars in like 1-2 matches, and win games. It's fun, it had good rewards, and since so many people were doing it, there was very little people badmouthing anyone.

Once they get bored/go looking for other stuff, they will see that HEY...TEAM ARENAS GIVES ME DOUBLE THE REWARDS...lets try that! etc.

nugzta · Apr 26, 2008, 08:46 AM // 08:46

No, look at RA and AB, there are plenty PvE players over there and that is as far they can go. They can only do casual PvP because getting into high end PvP requires a lot more effort, skill and time.

CassiusDrehyg · Apr 26, 2008, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Yeah. There are only so many times I can stand to see Crème Brûlées drop from the Zaishen Chest.

/Signed

Zesbeer · Apr 26, 2008, 10:38 AM // 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

PART D: Enhanced Rewards
*Everyone likes rewards. I came up with an idea, what if you took the idea of Victory Tokens/Zaishen Medals/etc and merged them for PvP. Call them idk Balthazar Tokens or something. You earn them in every game mode (in various amounts), and can turn them in for anything you can turn a Victory Token in for, anything you could turn Zaishen Medals in for, etc.

Complete List of what you could use these Tokens to buy:
* Sugary Blue Drink
* Bottle Rocket
* Sparkler
* Champagne Popper
# Bottle of Rice Wine
# Red Bean Cake
# Flask of Firewater
# Crème Brûlée
# Scroll of Adventurer's Insight
# Scroll of Rampager's Insight
# Scroll of Hunter's Insight
# Flame of Balthazar.
# Golden Flame of Balthazar.
# Celestial Sigil.
# PvP White / Black Dye? Can't be sold to merchants / traded?
# Possibly add special minipets to this thing?
# Possibly add unique to PvP things?

Thoughts?

thats called a Zaishen key...

i do how ever have to agree a pvp areana where there where a caped amount of skills everyone could use that are balanced just for that arena would be awesome.

newbie_of_doom · Apr 26, 2008, 12:30 PM // 12:30

/signed

12plz

rustyduktape · Apr 26, 2008, 12:41 PM // 12:41

/signed, good ideas man.

Burst Cancel · Apr 26, 2008, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Many PvPers have been asking for a "sealed deck" type of environment for a while.

I think setting the skills ala costume brawl is a good idea, because it takes the element of build-crafting out of the game for a less complex mode of play. In this setting, it's a lot closer to a fighting game (e.g., Street Fighter), and almost purely skill-dependent. The real question though, is what sorts of builds, and how many different builds, to offer?

I would like to point out, however, that the "downward slide" at the high end of PvP cannot be cured by luring PvEers into PvP. In any game, the high-end competitive crowd represents your bleeding edge, and if that edge is dulling it means that there isn't enough being done to encourage further improvement and innovation at the high end. Trying to simply inflate the numbers at the high end often has the effect of dulling the edge further by dragging down the overall skill level.

DarkNecrid · Apr 26, 2008, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felixious

You talk about PvEers as if we were animals. (I like cookies).
'Nuff said.

Um.....okay?

All PvPers (99.9%) have PvE'd at same point, I'm strictly talking about the hardcore PvE'ers, okay? Don't be lame.

Quote:

thats called a Zaishen key...

Zaishen Keys don't drop 3/4ths of that list. :P

BlackSephir · Apr 26, 2008, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Yes plox. Pvp deserves more attention, not just few skill balances. What was the last addition to pvp? Hero battles with Nightfall?

Oh, and I'm a sucker for Costume Brawl. No gimmicky build, no overpowered builds, equality, only skill. /droll

Taurus · Apr 26, 2008, 01:23 PM // 13:23

/signed

costume brawl was too fun and I dont know how RA synch hasnt been fixed yet.

Alex the Great · Apr 26, 2008, 01:29 PM // 13:29

/signed

'cause who dosen't like presents?

warcrap · Apr 26, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

they should leave all these new minigames here forever instead of taking them away so people have something to do.

Red Sand · Apr 26, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28

/signed with reservations

As a PvX player, I concur that better rewards would encourage more PvE players to try out PvP, where they might find they actually like it.

Unfortunately, the other side of the coin is, first you tempt them with rewards, then they come PvP with PvE builds, get their butts kicked in less than 30 sec and spammed "PWDT N00b" by some childish 15 (or 50) year old.

They decide it's not worth the emotional trauma and never PvP again. (I personally believe that this is the reason why most PvE'rs never make the shift over to PvP.)

If you make good PvP only rewards, you might have to set them such that you can't trade them, in order to encourage PvE'rs to actually play PvP instead of buying them from the PvP farming community. You might also have to make it easier to get the reward vice farming for loot and gold and buying what they want.

In defense of the Hard Core PvE player, which covers the bulk of my Alliance, beating three and a half chapters in Hard Mode requires a lot of effort, skill and time too. I won't ever do it, too freaking hard.

I'd much rather AB, RA and TA. You know, easy stuff.

nugzta · Apr 26, 2008, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sand

In defense of the Hard Core PvE player, which covers the bulk of my Alliance, beating three and a half chapters in Hard Mode requires a lot of effort, skill and time too. I won't ever do it, too freaking hard.

At least in PvE, you know eventually you get the job done. I know for a fact it mainly requires time investment (because I have done them all already: skill cap, guardian, vanquisher, etc)

Sure introducing this will only encourage pve players to do casual PvP nothing else. The only part I'm disagreeing with is that this would not encourage them to do high end pvp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sand

I'd much rather AB, RA and TA. You know, easy stuff.

You prove my point because high end pvp is not for everyone. To do high end pvp you need:

Watch observer mode regularly to follow the meta
Practice your skills frequently
Build contact network, friends and guilds
Actively join in serious pvp discussions - game mechanics, skill balance, etc

Unfortunately the majority PvE players only play for "fun" and easy but not competitive.

Productivity · Apr 26, 2008, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sand

In defense of the Hard Core PvE player, which covers the bulk of my Alliance, beating three and a half chapters in Hard Mode requires a lot of effort, skill and time too. I won't ever do it, too freaking hard.

Complete rubbish. There's probably 10 missions that are remotely difficult across the entire set in Hard Mode (and a few of tehm are only difficult because you need to find another competant player). The only thing Legendary Guardian requires is a bit of time and an IQ above 80.

Red Sand · Apr 26, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

The only part I'm disagreeing with is that this would not encourage them to do high end pvp.

I don't think that making rewards will make the hardcore PvE go hardcore PvP either. They will try it out, get killed and go lick their wounds and go back to play against mobs instead of people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

To do high end pvp you need:

Watch observer mode regularly to follow the meta
Practice your skills frequently
Build contact network, friends and guilds
Actively join in serious pvp discussions - game mechanics, skill balance, etc

I do these things, albeit I'm still new to this game, but I will never be high end PvP and I will never be high end PvE for the same reason: I am completely uninterested in playing GW for a living. Too many miles to put on the motorcyle, too many girls to oogle at the beach, life's too damn short to try to win another cooperative or competitive MMO. In fact, when I stop writing this post, I'm gonna open a bottle of wine, fire up the grill, and smoke a cigar whilst I grill up some steaks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

Unfortunately the majority PvE players only play for "fun" and easy but not competitive.

Here we disagree: it's fortunate that the majority of PvE players only play for fun, cause they support GW with their money just at least as much as PvP players do. Pays the bills, keeps the servers running and lets uber PvP'rs pwn each other in GvG.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Productivity

The only thing Legendary Guardian requires is a bit of time and an IQ above 80.

One could say the same about Legendary Guardian and Champion. Face it, titles don't mean anything when you can get them riding the coat tails of your guildies.

Have a great day!

Yoshikuni Mahsu · Apr 26, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

/Signed BTW.

P.S. I. Want. permanent. Dragon Arena. With. Choosable. Teams.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

RotteN · Apr 26, 2008, 11:49 PM // 23:49

it takes more than "OMG, REWARDS !" to get people into high-end PvP. It requires a large amount of time dedicated to getting better at the game before you can even consider yourself any good. On top of that, you need 7 other people to get all that required experience.

Long story short : simply "baiting" PvE-ers into PvP isn't going to get you any new player on the higher levels.