Curse

Sir Pandra Pierva · Apr 29, 2008, 08:17 PM // 20:17

there is no reason to hit shadow form cause someone can't bring some kinda interupt for it.

sig interupts are always good.

Tyla · Apr 29, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

'Cause they're realy going to run into the enemy then enchant up?
Deadly Paradox makes it alot harder to hit, and sig interrupts cast at . seconds.

Although they will fail on a more strategic map, 1 fame isn't worth much.
But you shouldn't have to /resign just because of someone trying to take the piss.

I Is Special · Apr 29, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

'Cause they're realy going to run into the enemy then enchant up?
Deadly Paradox makes it alot harder to hit, and sig interrupts cast at . seconds.

Although they will fail on a more strategic map, 1 fame isn't worth much.
But you shouldn't have to /resign just because of someone trying to take the piss.

Well, it's either /resign or don't suck and bring a counter. You choose.

lordheinous · Apr 29, 2008, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

'Cause they're realy going to run into the enemy then enchant up?
Deadly Paradox makes it alot harder to hit, and sig interrupts cast at . seconds.

Because you couldn't interrupt arcane echo, which takes 2 seconds to cast and which must be recast about every 40 seconds, or the arcane echoed sf, which they probably aren't using deadly paradox on?

Tyla · Apr 29, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Is Special

Well, it's either /resign or don't suck and bring a counter. You choose.

Bar space gets tight, and you shouldn't be bringing counters specifically for this build to sort it out by wasting bar space.

Read my post on the other page for a more detailed explanation.

So it's either: Suck or bring a skill sucky against everything else by your logic.

@Lordheinous -- Read it again. If someone is going to be using that build they wouldn't run in THEN cast.
How stupid do you think these people are?

(And it's still 100% maintainable FYI)

Horus Moonlight · Apr 29, 2008, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

@Lordheinous -- Read it again. If someone is going to be using that build they wouldn't run in THEN cast.
How stupid do you think these people are?

(And it's still 100% maintainable FYI)

It doesn't matter if they come in with SF already up. They WILL have to cast arcane echo sometime to upkeep SF indefinitely. That is when you disrupt it.

Tyla · Apr 29, 2008, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horus Moonlight

It doesn't matter if they come in with SF already up. They WILL have to cast arcane echo sometime to upkeep SF indefinitely. That is when you disrupt it.

Ya because you can cast through Shadow Form...
And if you're talking about Leech Signet, it's bad aswell.

lordheinous · Apr 29, 2008, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Ya because you can cast through Shadow Form...
And if you're talking about Leech Signet, it's bad aswell.

?????

I don't even know wtf you're trying to say. Do you even know what shadow form does lol? Here it is [Shadow Form]. I think the term "perma sf" might just have you a LITTLE bit confused, so I'll straighten it out for you: it isn't that youjust cast shadow form and it somehow magically remains up until the end of time; you start off by casting [Arcane Echo] and using [Deadly Paradox] sometime before arcane echo finishes casting, then immediately cast [Shadow Form]. You then try to cast the echoed shadow form as close to but not after the 19 second mark after casting the original shadow form. Arcane Echo will revert at the 20 second mark and begin to recharge. When it has recharged, you cast arcane echo again, again using deadly paradox before it finishes casting, then immediately following with shadow form. You continue to go through the cycle for as long as you want to keep shadow form up.

I hope that made it clear enough for you to understand lol. Seriously though, I don't think that someone who thought that "perma sf" was really some sort of insta-pwn thing that was cast once really should be participating in this discussion

Tyla · Apr 29, 2008, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Uh...what?
People usually run Perma-SF with a superior rune, and with a superior rune, it's 21 seconds duration excluding the 20% enchantment weapon.
It's OBVIOUS you're using Deadly Paradox and Arcane Echo.

And I didn't even say once that it makes you invinicible and it stays up all the time as a fire and forget that requires no timing whatsoever.

First you are telling me "Interrupt it lol" then you are telling me how it works when I know that Shadow Form already stops spells from effecting you.
And all means of countering it are either: Bad against everything else, or sub-par compared to a skill that does roughly the same effect.

Growling Octopus · Apr 29, 2008, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Just add a nerf to it like ... "When this skill ends, all of your skills are disabled for 5 seconds" or something ... then people could use it legitimately, but would have to have a window for stuff like what you're talking about in HA. Another option is to make shadow form fail if you're already enchanted with it, or make it like shadow walk where you cant use enchantments while enchanted with it.

NecroticChanter · Apr 29, 2008, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Shadow Form doesn't need a nerf....chillbains, sig of disenchantment, expunge enchantments..they all strip SF...besides u are practically dead once u get out of SF with that massive HP loss...

Marverick · Apr 29, 2008, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Why don't we do:
[skill]Rending Touch[/skill] make this a SKILL instead of a spell

The change won't be very drastic except that it provides one very effective way of screwing over SF'ers with a skill that isn't inherently useless

Risus · Apr 29, 2008, 10:00 PM // 22:00

stop QQ'ing you can wait 20 secs can't you? Otherwise BRING A TOUCHER or something

lordheinous · Apr 29, 2008, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Uh...what?
People usually run Perma-SF with a superior rune, and with a superior rune, it's 21 seconds duration excluding the 20% enchantment weapon.
It's OBVIOUS you're using Deadly Paradox and Arcane Echo.

And I didn't even say once that it makes you invinicible and it stays up all the time as a fire and forget that requires no timing whatsoever.

First you are telling me "Interrupt it lol" then you are telling me how it works when I know that Shadow Form already stops spells from effecting you.
And all means of countering it are either: Bad against everything else, or sub-par compared to a skill that does roughly the same effect.

Lol

First off, if they weren't using a sup rune+headpiece+enchanting weapon, it wouldn't work, because you need it to be up for at least 22.7 seconds, and that's assuming absolute timing perfection with the echoed sf, which is very hard to do.

Second off, you clearly didn't know how it worked, because you were saying that if they cast it before the fight, you had no way to interrupt it, which obviously isn't true, as you have to be casting it in a cycle to keep it up. Of course, it could be perhaps that you're problem is more basic, and you don't realize that [Leech Signet] is a signet, though I would think the name is a dead give away. Or perhaps you are even more confused, and think that signets=spells

?

Finally, most of the "counters" are things that most builds run anyway, and that even if you're not, you could easily adapt one untargeted/non-spell skill into your team build that with an equivalent or at least similar effect.

Food · Apr 29, 2008, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

...

Expunge Enchantments you failures

Exactly.

I also don't really remember seeing Shadow Form sins skipping around in TA or HA... Hmm...

Horus Moonlight · Apr 29, 2008, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Ya because you can cast through Shadow Form...
And if you're talking about Leech Signet, it's bad aswell.

You have to be kidding...

There are 3 freaking pages that discuss various forms of disruptions that go through SF, many of them being viable.

If you're going to use sarcasm, at least make sure you know what you are talking about.

Stormlord Alex · Apr 30, 2008, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Just make SF a PvE-only skill.

The only purpose a skill like Form can ever have in PvP is as a griefing spell, and teams shouldn't be forced to bring bad skills to counter griefers.
SF has no place in PvP. Everyone can agree on that... Unless you like griefing, in which case stfu, gtfo and go die somewhere kthx.

Make SF PvE-only, so the carebears are happy, the PvPers are happy, and the griefers cry their eyes out. Everybody wins.

(edit: to the guys trolling Tyla, really.... can you explain to me honestly why a stalling skill like SF should exist in a game like GW? And none of that 'lern2counter nub' crap, if you would be so kind)

Surena · Apr 30, 2008, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Such invincibility mechanics (even if temporary) are always bad for ANY game.

Resident · Apr 30, 2008, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Blah... BS.
Whoever plays perma Shadow Form assa in pvp is obviously a noob or just trying to have fun cause it's not effective at all.
RA: So many R/D nowadays. Rendering Touch FTW.
AB: Ping him to a Mesmer.
TA: Are you kidding?
HA: Are you really kidding me?

Why would you nerf it? No point in it.

N1ghtstalker · Apr 30, 2008, 10:18 AM // 10:18

djeez there are so many counters against sf you don't need to nerf it ^.~
SF stops spells and attacks that's it
you can still:

-touch him
-aoe damage him with something like[flame burst]

and then still
you can just kite him and when it wears of he's open for the kill

SF is a good skill for PvE usage but that's it ^.~