Curse

Mortius Madius · May 14, 2008, 12:16 PM // 12:16

One problem with starting a new guild, or maintaining an existing guild, is that it is just too easy to hop from guild to guild. There are alot of people who know what loyalty is, and I applaud them for it. But there are also alot of people who jump around from guild to guild to guild. Of course, there are those that, through their actions, when they leave your guild you actually stand up in your chair in real life and clap. But, I'll try to stay on focus here.

The issue that I am concerned with is the ease with which people come and go. Here is my idea to make it less easy to guild hop:

Create a Guild Allegience Title Track.

You start at 0 as a new character.

When you join a guild for the first time, you get 50 points to the title track. This will give you your first title, and get you use to the idea of having titles.

You get three guild swaps to start with, which means you get to shop around somewhat, without consequence. So you could start joining Guild A, then decide you didn't like them, so you give Guild B a try, and through trial and error and circumstance, you end up in Guild C. Guild C splits and you like Officer Personality so you go with him and end up in Guild D.

At that point you would incur negative title penalties for changing guilds. Say, a descending scale. -10 points for going to Guild E, -20 for going to Guild F, and so on and so forth.

In between...

So, you started in Guild A. You got 50 points for joining. You get 1 point towards the title track per day you remained in that guild and logged in. A week later, you went to Guild B. You would have 57 points in the track at that point. You stayed with Guild B for two weeks, then you went to Guild C. You would have 71 points at that time. Then you ended up in Guild D.

After you've been in Guild D for 30 days, you start earning 3 points per day that you logged in towards the title track. At 60 days, 5 points. At 90 days, 10 points. Then you start earning 5 points per hour of active play.

You get 100 points for promotion to Officer. You earn 1 point in the track per recruit you bring in. You lose 1 point for each person you recruited that leaves. AT one year in the same guild, you start earning a flat 1 point per minute of active play with no per day reward. (You can add in points for transferring Kurzick/Luxon Faction, winning GvG, or taking the Hall of Heroes.)

After a year, you decide to leave Guild D for Guild E. You lose 10 points to the track. You now only earn 1 point per day towards the title track. You have to put the same amount of time into Guild E as you did for Guild D to get back to the same level of points you were making there.

Leaving Guild D to make your own guild is a no penalty change. But since your guild is new and you are the Guild Leader and not a Member or Officer, your point system is different. Guild Leaders would get 1 point per Member or Officer per day that they log in, in addition to the points the GL would get for standard play. GL would get the same rewards and losses for recruiting as Officers. Guild Leaders lose 25 points per person they promote to Officer. Officers lose 50 points per person they promote to Officer.

At the point when an Officer extends an invitation your position in the Allegience track would be visible to them. So a title on the negative side of the track would be a huge heads up.

There ya go, tear it up.

Gift3d · May 14, 2008, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Instead of more unlikely titles, why not just something like "View player's guild history"? So you could just see which guilds they've been in and for how long to distinguish guild hoppers? Isn't that generally what you'd mean to accomplish by this idea anyway?

legion_rat · May 14, 2008, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

Instead of more unlikely titles, why not just something like "View player's guild history"? So you could just see which guilds they've been in and for how long to distinguish guild hoppers? Isn't that generally what you'd mean to accomplish by this idea anyway?

he has been in his guild forever and wants a free title.

I have hopped alot, mostly because the guilds I join are small, and when I join very active. then people start leaving or becoming inactive (14monthes for one person) so I look for a new one. Some people are very picky. Not all of them are assholes trying to mooch.

/notsigned

~the rat~

Valaric · May 14, 2008, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Well thats always a problem,someone shows interest in your guild, you explain everything there is to know about your guild - ie plans, size ect. and after about a few hours they leave. Its such an annoyance.

Mortius Madius · May 14, 2008, 12:33 PM // 12:33

While that would work, I doubt seriously Anet would devote server time or space to storing the information required for it. As a compromise it could instead show the average time a person has spent in a guild. So it could tell you that Person X has spent an average of 4 days per guild they have been invited to. Which would still require the server to keep track of that information. When you leave a guild, currently, the server completely deletes your association to it. Likewise, someone could join a guild, then not log in for six months, get kicked, and then ask to be invited to your guild. It would LOOK like they had an average time in guild of 6 months, it wouldn't tell you they were habitually inactive. Whereas, if they were level 20 and only had 75 points in the track, you'd know they weren't very active. Or if they had a negative rating you'd know they just hop around, so why waste your time on them? I'm not set on any particular system, but I think there really should be tools in place to make an informed decision rather than having to rely on the individual to be honest and open with you. The game already stores the information on how much time you've been in your current guild, so the information is there to start on.

lilraceangel3 · May 14, 2008, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

Instead of more unlikely titles, why not just something like "View player's guild history"? So you could just see which guilds they've been in and for how long to distinguish guild hoppers? Isn't that generally what you'd mean to accomplish by this idea anyway?

I like this idea better, that way you could see whether or not you'd want that person in the guild or as an officer, knowing they have a history of leaving in 15, 30 ect., days.

Mortius Madius · May 14, 2008, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion_rat

he has been in his guild forever and wants a free title.

I have hopped alot, mostly because the guilds I join are small, and when I join very active. then people start leaving or becoming inactive (14monthes for one person) so I look for a new one. Some people are very picky. Not all of them are assholes trying to mooch.

/notsigned

~the rat~

No, I don't care about the title. Some people do, so it adds incentive. For the purpose of the 'title' itself, it wouldn't be possible to max it. It should be open ended and not have any association with the Hall of Monuments or count towards the People Know Me track or any other title for that matter. Just a matter of prestige to show that you are someone who sticks with it. I know people who are as picky as you say and they formed their own guild and have been with it since nearly the start of GW, they are still small because they are picky who they invite in.

While I agree with you that not everyone mooches, ALOT do. At the same time, the small guilds tend to stay small because they get discouraged trying to build up and they take anyone they can get. At least this way they'd have an idea of what they are actually GETTING.

MagmaRed · May 14, 2008, 01:07 PM // 13:07

/unsigned

All it takes is for people who know how to shop for guilds, and how to recruit new members. If you take the time to do it right, you don't end up leaving because the guild isn't what you want/need.

Arduin · May 14, 2008, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Having a high rating doesn't mean you will fit in every guild.

I could make my one-man guild, stay in it for a year, apply for your guild, get invited and promoted to officer because I have such a high rating and annoy the crap out of you.

Common sense and a thick hide is enough in my opinion.

/notsigned

elsalamandra · May 14, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28

/not signed.

I don't agree with the OP.

Guild hopping is something that comes with the turf and people joining then leaving is also a part of all this.

I for one, and I am sure many will agree, would not like to see one's moving arround in guilds made accessible to every tom dick and harry who sends one an invite.

Sorry if this offends the OP but thats how I feel.

Mini Masher · May 14, 2008, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Guild hopping can be minimalized if you communicate to potential members properly about your guilds direction, and take a few minutes to get to know the applicant. Sending invites to everyone who expresses an interest is not good. Likewise, joining a guild that you know nothing about is not advisable either.

/not signed

TheRaven · May 14, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

/not signed

But I like the stats idea. It would be nice to be able to see a quick stats list for potential recruits.

Wammo Recruit One
--------------------------------------
Number of Guilds Joined: 9
Average time in guild: 45 days
Number of Times Kicked from Guild: 7
Officer of Guild 1 Time
Guild Leader 0 Times

Similiarly, Wammo Recruit One can see a stat sheet on the guild that just issued a guest invite.

Guild: The Pwning Wammoz of Death
Guild Formed: January 14th, 2007
Guild Rank: 10,356
Total Faction: 121,000 Kurzick
Cape: display picture of cape here
Guild Hall: Isle of Solitude
(collapsible under Hall)
Merchant: Yes
Skill Trainer: Yes
Rune Trader: No
etc
etc
Guild Leader: Wammo of Death
Current Members: 54
Number of Officers: 20
Average Membership Retention Rate: 65 days
Alliance Affliation: The Pwnzinators, 7 Guilds (Kurzick)

lilraceangel3 · May 14, 2008, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

/not signed

But I like the stats idea. It would be nice to be able to see a quick stats list for potential recruits.

Wammo Recruit One
--------------------------------------
Number of Guilds Joined: 9
Average time in guild: 45 days
Number of Times Kicked from Guild: 7
Officer of Guild 1 Time
Guild Leader 0 Times

Similiarly, Wammo Recruit One can see a stat sheet on the guild that just issued a guest invite.

Guild: The Pwning Wammoz of Death
Guild Formed: January 14th, 2007
Guild Rank: 10,356
Total Faction: 121,000 Kurzick
Cape: display picture of cape here
Guild Hall: Isle of Solitude
(collapsible under Hall)
Merchant: Yes
Skill Trainer: Yes
Rune Trader: No
etc
etc
Guild Leader: Wammo of Death
Current Members: 54
Number of Officers: 20
Average Membership Retention Rate: 65 days
Alliance Affliation: The Pwnzinators, 7 Guilds (Kurzick)

IMO that is the best suggestion so far.

/signed (but only for TheRavens idea)

Mortius Madius · May 14, 2008, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by elsalamandra

/not signed.

I don't agree with the OP.

Guild hopping is something that comes with the turf and people joining then leaving is also a part of all this.

I for one, and I am sure many will agree, would not like to see one's moving arround in guilds made accessible to every tom dick and harry who sends one an invite.

Sorry if this offends the OP but thats how I feel.

I'm not offended.

But at the same time the only people who would have a problem with having their guild hopping habits made viewable would be those who hop around excessively.

Sure, 'guild hopping is something that comes with the turf' - and nothing that I suggested would prevent it from occurring. All the suggestion adds is a small consequence to it and allowing others to be informed of a person's habits. If a person is a professional guild hopper then they won't be ashamed of their -569430843 Loyalty rating.

Of course, the issue that I think you bring up has nothing to do with that, but to the fact that guilds would be less likely to take in people with that sort of rating. So on the one hand you could still do it, but on the other it would make it harder to do over and over again.

Mortius Madius · May 14, 2008, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Having a high rating doesn't mean you will fit in every guild.

I could make my one-man guild, stay in it for a year, apply for your guild, get invited and promoted to officer because I have such a high rating and annoy the crap out of you.

Common sense and a thick hide is enough in my opinion.

/notsigned

True, you COULD do that. But of course, for an entire YEAR everyone is safe from being annoyed by you. If a Guild Leader decides to use someone's rating as the only qualification for promotion to Officer, then they DESERVE to be annoyed by you. Lastly, you may have been in a guild by yourself for 365 days, been in my guild for 2 days, then kicked because you are a disruption to the guild ... all I lost was 100g. You lost 367 days and however much money you spent on your one man guild. And hey, if that floats your boat, I have no problems with it!

HawkofStorms · May 14, 2008, 10:33 PM // 22:33

/notsigned
Loyalty can not be assigned a numerical value.

Mortius Madius · May 14, 2008, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mini Masher

Guild hopping can be minimalized if you communicate to potential members properly about your guilds direction, and take a few minutes to get to know the applicant. Sending invites to everyone who expresses an interest is not good. Likewise, joining a guild that you know nothing about is not advisable either.

/not signed

I was Level 12 before I ever joined a guild. When I did I met some of the best people I've ever known in the whole history of Guild Wars. Since that time the guild was disbanded, reformed, split, disbanded, re-formed again, split, disbanded, and reformed again. In between one of the times where the guild was being disbanded and reformed, I joined a different guild. People I had never met, had never spoken to. But before I did, I made sure to ask alot of questions so I knew exactly what I was getting into.

They had a more structured organization than I was use to, but they had the same problems we always had with people coming and going. It didn't matter how much you spoke to someone, how well you knew them, or if they knew what your guild's direction was and what the long term plan was. I calculated the ratio at one point after I was promoted to Officer in that guild, and it ended up being something like a 3:5 ratio. For every 5 people you brought in, 3 would leave within a week, no matter how much time and effort you devoted to them.

If I had had a tool that told me that a person was more than likely to jump out of the guild within a week, I just wouldn't have bothered inviting them in the first place no matter how good they made themselves sound in chat.

Mortius Madius · May 14, 2008, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

/notsigned
Loyalty can not be assigned a numerical value.

In real life, no, it can't.

In an electronic environment such as an online game, yes it can.

Mortius Madius · May 14, 2008, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

/not signed

But I like the stats idea. It would be nice to be able to see a quick stats list for potential recruits.

Wammo Recruit One
--------------------------------------
Number of Guilds Joined: 9
Average time in guild: 45 days
Number of Times Kicked from Guild: 7
Officer of Guild 1 Time
Guild Leader 0 Times

Similiarly, Wammo Recruit One can see a stat sheet on the guild that just issued a guest invite.

Guild: The Pwning Wammoz of Death
Guild Formed: January 14th, 2007
Guild Rank: 10,356
Total Faction: 121,000 Kurzick
Cape: display picture of cape here
Guild Hall: Isle of Solitude
(collapsible under Hall)
Merchant: Yes
Skill Trainer: Yes
Rune Trader: No
etc
etc
Guild Leader: Wammo of Death
Current Members: 54
Number of Officers: 20
Average Membership Retention Rate: 65 days
Alliance Affliation: The Pwnzinators, 7 Guilds (Kurzick)

I like it. Not sure if the Guild NPC display would be doable though. With enough time and programming, yeah they can do anything, I just doubt they'd put that much time and effort into it.

Thizzle · May 14, 2008, 10:52 PM // 22:52

I hate it. I guild hop all the time because one guild is shitty where the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO is the guilds rating scale? Maybe it's the guild not the player, you didn't think of that did you?

/notsigned.