Curse

Tozen · May 21, 2005, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Just should not be warrior... this should be primary attribute of next melee class. I would modify your stat suggestion though... I think I have a solution that work much more handily.

For every point in Duel Wield your off-hand weapon does 5% it's total damage output (hence, without one point you can not duel-wield.) Thus, at lvl 12 for example you could hurt an opponent for 60% of the weapon's normal damage.

XeroTheta · May 26, 2005, 04:29 PM // 16:29

I believe dual wielding is a good idea. I posted on GWOnline about this as well.

I agree with the fact that DWing should be kept as simple as possible.

Here are some of my suggestions (these may be slightly different from what I posted on GWonline)

There should be a new class of weapons that are identified as Dual Wield. These weapons would do less damage than than their normal counterparts.

for example: Swords (max damage 15-22 if I remember correctly) off hand swords: "Daggers" or "parrying blades" (5-10)

Off hand weapons would have unique (or not so unique) enchantments, not as powerful as either a shield or a full weapon, but enough to add some variety to the off hand weapons. Such as +2 defense, or "Increases poison recovery time" but less effective than shields with similar enchantments, and definitely able to add the elemental damage hilts.

I suggested that Axes should not have a dual wield option, but maybe a two handed option, although it's feasable to use two hatchets, it doesn't seem to fit the motif of an axe wielder, they are more "Cleave, smash, rend!" than dual wielders are.

I think the decreased damage and the decreased enchantments would be more than enough, because you'd be sacrificing the extra 16 AC!!!! that you get from shields, plus the uber enchantments.

Just my 2cents.

Devil's Dictionary · Jun 17, 2005, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Dual weilding is only wanted for it's looks and not because it should be cool.
As I posted in the other thread, I think it should be only allowed on short-swords/daggers so it could be offered to other classes than warrior. For the warriors I'd love to see a 2-handed sword, but that's another suggestion.

My idea:
- New weapon type called 'short sword' or 'dagger'. The weapon should be arround 7-10 or less: you have to remember that a pair of weapons may have twice the mods of a normal weapon.
- New passive skill (passive like Charm Animal): you may equip an offhand weapon only with it on the skill bar. The skill may or may not give you a damage decrease (in %)

Again, I think this should be given to Rangers or new classes instead of warriors as a warrior with two daggers would look ridiculous.

Knowing little about programming and not having made any game, I still believe my suggestion is a little easier to impliment and balance than just allowing people to wield two weapons at once. Anyhow we all agree that what GW is lacking is other weapon types.

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 17, 2005, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slade xTekno

Yes, I have chosen to touch this topic. I was rather upset to see the theatrical trailer feature a striking dual-wielding female warrior, but was unable to do so ingame. There is also a wallpaper of her included with the preorder with her holding two swords. I CALL FALSE ADVERTISING!11 This also upset my friend, who can effectively dual-wield sabers in real life. [other objects he can manipulate in this manner include pool noodles, pillows, and spatulas]

I warn you, this is a serious topic on how Dual-Wielding can be implemented in the [hopefully] upcoming expansion.

You realize when you WARN us that this is a serious topic, the first thing a rational person thinks is "Oh dear, this is a silly thread."

Regarding the introductory statement, I must have missed all that. Not saying it doesn't exist, just that I cannot find the items you claim. Secondly, I don't see one drawing, illustration, or otherwise similarity to Drizzt Do'Urden in the ENTIRE GAME.
There aren't even elves to be painfully obvious.
Impressive as it sounds that your friend can dual wield sabers and kitchen utensils in real life (I saw that Jackie Chan movie too) I fail to see how it applies to game demands?
I can also dual wield various objects, yet I never thought to demand it be put into the game...interesting angle there! Conversely, I would rather argue that since I am a Warlock within Tyria, I demand I be taught REAL spells and incantations in REAL LIFE.

Seems a bit silly doesn't it?
Indeed.
I am otherwise interested!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slade xTekno

In the expansions, ANet has hinted in the release of new... things.

I really enjoy your style of writing!
That is such an open ended statement it churns my imagination...in EQ2 they implemented a switch (/pizza) that actually orders pizza to be delievered to your house in RL from within the game! How incredible is that?
Wondering if there were hidden switches (there always are...) I began frantically typing
/sex
/girlfriend
/money
But nothing happened...so I cancelled my subscription. Stupid Game!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slade xTekno

...See where I'm headed?

Honestly? Not really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slade xTekno

I propose Dual Wielding as the new primary attribute for Warriors [from now on, Dual-Wielding will be abbreviated as DWing].

Curious...is PWning the abbreviation for Partial wielding? (one appendage or tentacle tied behind one's back for instance?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slade xTekno

...However, there are quite a few uncovered issues, some of which are
-the poor hammer. Hammers could possibly become obselete, as DWing would provide both a higher DPS and adrenaline recharge. This problem could be solved simply by having Hammer Master increase both damage range and swing speed.
-the stacking of attributes. Imagine the horrors of Axe Mastery applying to both axes. A solution is to create a weapon class specifically for Off-Hand weapons or just have damage range increases from other attributes apply only to the primary hand.
-other attack skills. Although this isn't too large a problem, having Galrath Strike occuring with your off-hand weapon might be a problem. Having non-DW attack skills apply only to the primary hand should solve this.
-being able to use both Axe and Sword skills. Imagine the possibilities... anyway, this could be prevented by making off-hand weapons a class of their own.

Wow..you really went to town here! I thought you just had a thing for sabers and kitchen utensils! Do you juggle? I think you'd enjoy it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slade xTekno

Skills for this attribute would be a joy to make, for those who actually know how to spar with weapons to your average comic/manga fan.

A-ha! Found you out at last...here I was thinking you were a Drizzt Do'Urden wannabe, but in reality you are SUPERVEGETA! ok.. got it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slade xTekno

In conclusion, I believe that Dual-Wielding could be a very interesting addition to a future expansion of Guild Wars. It would provides a whole new dimension to combat as well a new motivation to be a Warrior primary.

I concur with you. I would love to dual wield a staff and a sceptre of flame. Actually, I'd like to be a dual wielding backpack master! Would that be cool or what?
In addition, what creature would suspect if you merely walked up carrying two backpacks? it would be like this:

Inquisitor: At last we meet Talesin...are you prepared to die?
Talesin: Never, foul White Mantle scum!
Inquisitor: Pray tell, what will you do then Talesin? You are unarmed! Do you think to defeat me by placing me inside one of those silly backpacks you carry? Muhahahah...prepare to meet your doom!
Talesin: Prepare to meet yours Inquisitor! **Quickly snaps the two backpacks into Balthazars death spiral attack, striking the Inquistor in the face on the inside swipe of the inner circle path, and stiking his ears on the exit spiral - stunning him**
Inquistor: No! NOOOOOOOOoooooooooo! **Dies**

Lothiron · Jun 22, 2005, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Alright Slade, I am going to come right out and say it.

Your whole proposition is incredibly stupid.

By adding new primary attributes, you completely unbalance the game and all of the existing characters. You want dual wielding? Thats great, so do I, and so do many others. I do think that it would be best implemented in a new class that is designed to use it. For instance, as has been said before, a rogue or assassin class. This could be incorporated into the already delicate RPG infrastructure.

By the way, since we are all Drizzt Do'Urden wannabes and no one is willing to openly admit it save for myself, can we get a skin pigment that is jet black, like a freaking drow?

ManadartheHealer · Jun 22, 2005, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Dual-wielding would have to be on a new class. All the old professions seem balanced, and adding new attributes will screw everything up, especially for those who do not buy the next chapter.

I like the concept, but it will have to go on a new class

King of Fools · Jun 22, 2005, 03:16 AM // 03:16

i got 20$ US says that dual wielding comes in as an attribute of the 'rogue' class in next expansion. i will even split 50/50 with gaile if she can make it happen.

drowningfish999 · Jun 22, 2005, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Not sure why people are so keen on the rogue class, but IF they do add duel wielding, they will have to make sure it's balanced, otherwise people are gonna be screwing over their swords and focus items just to do more damage. Also it would definitely have to be on a new class, since the people that don't get the expansion will still be using whatever gets replaced.

eA-Zaku · Jun 22, 2005, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Has anyone mentioned boosting the benefits of shield-wielding to balance DWing?

ManadartheHealer · Jun 22, 2005, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by eA-Zaku

Has anyone mentioned boosting the benefits of shield-wielding to balance DWing?

Shields are good for blocking arrows or bashing people over the head, and not much more

eA-Zaku · Jun 22, 2005, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Exactly. Make Shield Stance have a % increase or have Shield Bash do more damage. Or simply up the maximum AL or something.

Tuna · Jun 22, 2005, 04:16 AM // 04:16

I would say I hope the do not implement dual weilding for several reasons:

1. It would be a pain to balance
2. Everyone and their grandma will use it because its 'cool' and they read to much drizzit do'urden

3. It would be a pain to balance

dogbreath17 · Jun 22, 2005, 07:15 AM // 07:15

I think this would be best implemented on a new class. If the expansion only has lets say 2 new classes do I want one to be a rogue? Not really and please no freaking dwarfs. What do I want actually? I dont really want any new classes right now but CONTENT.

CONTENT BEING = Fixing Guilds and PVE and PVP, etc.

Classes are pretty balanced right now and people are still exploring all the possibilites and combinations. Two things I dont understand though is that maybe 25% of people are die hard melee oriented. Maybe of those less than half want dual wielding. Thats 10% of the gaming population. Building a class just for them seems kinda pointless at this time.

I would say 25% are die hard melee, 25% are die hard caster and 25% are die hard ranger with 25% sharing equal favor for two of the three.

I have always been die hard melee but to me a warrior is a big freaking sword TWO handed or a big freaking axe TWO handed.

Regardless I dont think dual wielding is for the warrior in this game. However you could probably build a Rogue like class NOW without the dual wielding.

Ranger/Warrior
Traps, sprint, shield stance's, bleeds, interrupts.

The only thing your not getting is abiltiy to steal from people which your not going to get. The ability to hide which could be totaly rediculous for game balance or the ability to backstab which is redundant with all warrior attacks anyway.

So you cant dual wield use a little imagination and pretend your foci is a weapon. It actually is in a way.

Ranger/Warrior template options
Expertise:
Dodge or [E]Escape
Lightning Reflexes
Throw Dirt
Whirling Defense

General:
Antidote Signet

Wilderness Survival:
Apply Poison
Barbed Trap
Choking Gas
Dryders Defense
Dust Trap
Flame Trap
Frozen Soil
Healing Spring
Malandrus Resilence
Muddy Terrain
Natures Ritual
Serpents Quickness
Troll Unguent

Warrior
Go Axe perhaps
Disrupting Chop
Distracting Blow

So Expertise, Wilderness Survival and Axe

Expertise 11+1
WS 11 +1
Axe 8 +1

Sounds like a rogue to me. Not much punch but a pain in the arse. Looks like a duck, walks like a duck.

What I dont want is this:

"Has anyone mentioned boosting the benefits of shield-wielding to balance DWing?"

Holy lets put a stop at this right now, we dont need a endless cycle of nerfing and strengthing, holy muther.

Ashraven · Jun 22, 2005, 02:23 PM // 14:23

If new professions will be introduced, maybe it would be easier in some respects to incorporate dual wielding in the new class, rather than try to rebalance the warrior class.

A rogue/assassin/thief profession may be very cool. They would hate using shields and their max armor (i.e. leather/cloth) and HPs would be lower than a warrior, but they would make up for it in stealth, attack speed and dual wielding of slighter lower dmg "fast" weapons like short swords and daggers.

There's a lot A.net could do with a profession like this. For dual profession balancing, dual wielding would have to be a primary ability. A secondary ability could be Alchemy. Skills could be something like "poison blades", "drunken daggers", "comatose", "splitting headache", etc. So, with Alchemy, the rogue has the ability to enhance his/her weapons by use of poisons, drugs, etc to disable tankers from fighting effectively, to cause health degradation thru poison, etc.

Well, just a thought. Personally, I would love to see a rogue profession.

Slade xTekno · Jun 22, 2005, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

You realize when you WARN us that this is a serious topic, the first thing a rational person thinks is "Oh dear, this is a silly thread."

Indeed. If you had been here a bit longer, you'd know this topic had been done to death. Compare the date of the original post to your join date.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

Regarding the introductory statement, I must have missed all that. Not saying it doesn't exist, just that I cannot find the items you claim. Secondly, I don't see one drawing, illustration, or otherwise similarity to Drizzt Do'Urden in the ENTIRE GAME.
There aren't even elves to be painfully obvious.
Impressive as it sounds that your friend can dual wield sabers and kitchen utensils in real life (I saw that Jackie Chan movie too) I fail to see how it applies to game demands?
I can also dual wield various objects, yet I never thought to demand it be put into the game...interesting angle there! Conversely, I would rather argue that since I am a Warlock within Tyria, I demand I be taught REAL spells and incantations in REAL LIFE.

Seems a bit silly doesn't it?
Indeed.
I am otherwise interested!

This came from an incident in the last BWE, where I ran into three different variations of the name Drizzt Do'Urden in a single district of Ascalon [Searing].

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

I really enjoy your style of writing!
That is such an open ended statement it churns my imagination...in EQ2 they implemented a switch (/pizza) that actually orders pizza to be delievered to your house in RL from within the game! How incredible is that?
Wondering if there were hidden switches (there always are...) I began frantically typing
/sex
/girlfriend
/money
But nothing happened...so I cancelled my subscription. Stupid Game!

You don't get out much, do you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

Honestly? Not really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

Curious...is PWning the abbreviation for Partial wielding? (one appendage or tentacle tied behind one's back for instance?)

Lol, everyone else seemed to get it. I guess intelligent trolls don't exist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

Wow..you really went to town here! I thought you just had a thing for sabers and kitchen utensils! Do you juggle? I think you'd enjoy it!

I have no idea how this pertained to the quote you attached it to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

A-ha! Found you out at last...here I was thinking you were a Drizzt Do'Urden wannabe, but in reality you are SUPERVEGETA! ok.. got it.

Again, get out much? Some of us do something called "working out."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

I concur with you. I would love to dual wield a staff and a sceptre of flame. Actually, I'd like to be a dual wielding backpack master! Would that be cool or what?
In addition, what creature would suspect if you merely walked up carrying two backpacks? it would be like this:

Inquisitor: At last we meet Talesin...are you prepared to die?
Talesin: Never, foul White Mantle scum!
Inquisitor: Pray tell, what will you do then Talesin? You are unarmed! Do you think to defeat me by placing me inside one of those silly backpacks you carry? Muhahahah...prepare to meet your doom!
Talesin: Prepare to meet yours Inquisitor! **Quickly snaps the two backpacks into Balthazars death spiral attack, striking the Inquistor in the face on the inside swipe of the inner circle path, and stiking his ears on the exit spiral - stunning him**
Inquistor: No! NOOOOOOOOoooooooooo! **Dies**

It was painfully obvious you didn't read the entire thread before posting, so I'll quote something I said later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slade xTekno

Please post with criticism. Make it constructive, polite, and/or sane.
Refrain from being rude, and please give me the same amount of respect I gave you.

Slade xTekno · Jun 22, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lothiron

Alright Slade, I am going to come right out and say it.

Your whole proposition is incredibly stupid.

By adding new primary attributes, you completely unbalance the game and all of the existing characters. You want dual wielding? Thats great, so do I, and so do many others. I do think that it would be best implemented in a new class that is designed to use it. For instance, as has been said before, a rogue or assassin class. This could be incorporated into the already delicate RPG infrastructure.

By the way, since we are all Drizzt Do'Urden wannabes and no one is willing to openly admit it save for myself, can we get a skin pigment that is jet black, like a freaking drow?

If you read the entire thread before posting, you'd know that I took it back as a new primary attribute for Warriors. If you had seem some of the one-line Dual-Wielding posts, you'd be happy to see mine. By the way, it sounds like you really want a rogue or assassin class...

Calling the kettle black? [pun intended] I am enamoured by the way you seem to hate the idea, you can spell his name correctly and know who he is. By the way, every played a Necromancer primary?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slade xTekno

Please post with criticism. Make it constructive, polite, and/or sane.
Refrain from being rude, and please give me the same amount of respect I gave you.

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 22, 2005, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Slade xtechno...
You have firmly positioned yourself with the ignorant camp of
"Anyone who disagrees with me is rude and wrong."

My post was not meant nor written to be rude, but rather to point out several glaring deficiencies in your grandiose scheme - and in a tongue in cheek manner.

How can anyone possibly take you serious when you immediately attack any dissenting opinion? A good idea bears scrutiny; yours does not.
Let me cut to the chase for you:

Your idea is both stupid and the desperate fantasy of a Drizzt Do'Urden freak.
That's reciprocating the respect you gave my opinion.

Talesin

R F O X · Jun 22, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15

I fully agree with DWing weapons

but they should also have 2 handed swords and axes for the warr. class as well.

But there should be a balance to all characters unlike there is now.

lets look at how they got it setup right now.

Warrior (primary weapons for this class)
(3 different weapon sets to choose from)
1 handed sword + shield, or off hand item if they choose
1 handed axe +shield, or off hand item if they choose
2 handed hammer + nothing

Ele,Mesmer,Monk,Necro (primary weapons for this class)
(3 different weapon sets to choose from)
1 handed rod + off hand item, or shield if they choose
1 handed wand +off hand item, or shield if they choose
2 handed staffs + nothing
the reason i put all these together b/c max dmg really dont play a big part from a rod,wand,or staff and if comes to you beating the enemy down with either of the 3 then you prob going to die anyway.

now lets see here am i forgetting someone here...................................... ol yes the underdog of us all.

Ranger (Primary weapons for this class)
(look folks the ranger also have 3 weapon sets to choose from)
2 handed bow + nothing
2 handed bow + nothing
2 handed bow + nothing
wow they should not have put so many choices in for the ranger ya know.

each and every class should have the same amount choices that match there class of weapons to choose from.

if it be 2 handed with another type of off hand item that only be weilded by ppl with 2 handed weapons.
example
Bow + quiver
Hammer + nails<<<< just joking
so on and so forth

sure there mabe more than one bow to choose from but guess what it is still a bow.

I do think the DWing is a great idea and would add more options to the game play but i think they first need to give all classes the same options since they are trying to be so quote "fair to everyone and every class"

Slade xTekno · Jun 23, 2005, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

Slade xtechno...
You have firmly positioned yourself with the ignorant camp of
"Anyone who disagrees with me is rude and wrong."

Hypocrite. You could at least spell my name correctly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

My post was not meant nor written to be rude, but rather to point out several glaring deficiencies in your grandiose scheme - and in a tongue in cheek manner.

"Tongue-in-cheek?" People like you are labeled "trolls."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

How can anyone possibly take you serious when you immediately attack any dissenting opinion? A good idea bears scrutiny; yours does not.

Again, please read the entire thread before posting a misinformed opinion. Throughout the thread I have edited the system under which I suggest DWing be implemented in Guild Wars by the constructive criticism others have made.
How can I respond favorably to a post that that does not help me come up with a better suggestion, but is rather simply trying to be funny at my expense?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

Let me cut to the chase for you:

Your idea is both stupid and the desperate fantasy of a Drizzt Do'Urden freak.
That's reciprocating the respect you gave my opinion.

Talesin

An eye for an eye; my lack of respect was intentional. I beckon you to show me where in your post you respected mine.

I don't mind the statement in bold. This is the internet; I expect people to mistake the anonimity it provides with power.

drowningfish999 · Jun 23, 2005, 02:48 AM // 02:48

I read the revised part, and I still agree with your post. Dual wielding would be an excellent addition as long as there is no balance issue. Naturally it's going to be popular if it's released, but it should be designed so that people eventually move away from it, and only the players that actually have a strategy for it use it.

I have one idea on how the damage issue could be resolved. Each normal attack could be something similar to the rangers Dual Shot. Dual Shot fires 2 arrows at one target, but they only do 75% damage. The advantage is that you obviously do more damage. However there is a chance that one arrow will miss, meaning you do 25% less damage than a normal attack. You also would recieve double effects of any defensive spells they are using that target attackers(not sure if this actually applies to Dual Shot, but it would make sense). Since Dual Shot is a skill though, the Dual Wielding would have to be stepped down slightly. Perhaps increase the chance of a miss for an offhand weapon. Or maybe the required stat for a weapon would be higher than average if it's offhand.

The last problem I see is mods/upgrades. If they have the same upgrade on both weapons, say Sundering, they have a double chance of armor penetration in that case, thereby increasing there chance of greater damage, offsetting the % decrease from using 2 weapons. To fix this, they could possibly eliminate off hand mods(bad idea) or modify the mods so they have a less percent chance of taking effect. Example: Swordsmanship +1 (20% chance)=Swordsmanship +1(10% chance).

Well that's pretty much it, if I think of anything else I'll be sure to post it.