Curse

Lwendvel · May 14, 2008, 03:05 PM // 15:05

The rifleman/marksman/musketeer/sniper

I imagine this being a new class for Guild Wars 2, where since the first Guild Wars development has been made into gunpowder (or some magical alternative) and firearms.

General

The rifleman uses a different weapon from all other classes with different advantages and disadvantages. The rifleman relies on being able to stay in one spot for some time, staying concealed from enemy aggro for as long as possible and giving support to the rest of the party. The rifleman’s biggest weakness is having low armour and melee classes.

Explanation

The rifleman/marksman/musketeer/sniper is a long-range class used to pin down, cripple, disable and interrupt as well as causing such affects as bleeding and deep wound.

Weapons would be confined to those that take several seconds to reload such as a musket and a single-action revolver. Firearms in Guild Wars would be at the very early stages of development so no machine guns, shotguns or rocket launchers.

Shooting at distance requires direct line of sight, more so than that of a ranger but as an added benefit the greater distance and the relevant attribute gives the rifleman the chance of being concealed from enemy aggro and avoidance from attack would be much easier. This enables the rifleman to fire multiple times at distance, at different targets, disabling and interrupting while the rest of the party runs into combat.

The rifleman would have a low armour rating being a class that is able to attack out of the range of enemy attack and aggro. The rifleman’s biggest threat would be the assassin who can shadow step into melee range without detection. At close quarters the rifleman’s only line of defence is a bayonet or switching to a pistol. The rifleman’s ability to reload larger weapons when in melee range will be disabled or significantly hindered.

The rifleman would have the ability to increase the damage each shot does by taking aim and waiting for the opportune moment. To balance this, the more damage the shot can do the more time it takes to set the shot up. Success could be increased with various preparation skills such as focus and take aim as well as crippling which would slow the enemy’s movement and improve the rifleman’s ability to aim.

Disabler and supporter role: They are the first line of offence being able to disable the enemy before the rest of the party enters combat. At which point the enemy will be much easier to handle.

Spiker role: The rifleman could have the ability to deal a great amount of damage in a single shot. When used with other skills such as bleeding, the rifleman has the possibility of killing a single enemy quickly. This would be balanced by the time taken to shoot as the rifleman could be discovered and made to flee or engage combat or a wrongly chosen target could move out of sight or be killed before the shot is made and consequently wasted.

Caster or lower armour
Medium Energy
Long-Ranged

natural_Causes · May 14, 2008, 03:19 PM // 15:19

So a ranger but with guns?

Mist Walker Skarloc · May 14, 2008, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Yes, it's a ranger. Just let them use guns in GW2.

/thread

Unreal Havoc · May 14, 2008, 04:07 PM // 16:07

WoW is also a RPG, that has Muskets and Blunderbusses in. It would actually be pretty cool to have in GW if balanced right.

Reload times on the gun for instance should be a couple of seconds while the Musketeer clears any remaining gunpowder etc.

System_Crush · May 14, 2008, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lwendvel

Tyria's first development has been made into gunpowder (or some magical alternative) and firearms.

[skill=text]Lighting Orb[/skill] the magical alternative.
But then again the first 100 years of fire arms have very little firepower and where good for little other than testing armor strength, making wands and staffs more likely to be their equivalent.

Anyway, my point being, technology derives form from function, magic derives function from form.
Hence the magical alternative to guns is about as likely to include a tube containing a explosion to push a projectile out of 1 end of the tube, as Tyria is to completely forget about dwarven powder kegs and Kournan siege machines all together.
(Cantha has been cut off in GW2 so teh cannons on top of Seige turtles have a good shot of being lost to the rest of the world)

Yes you read that right the basis is already there, the Charr also have something that explodes but as those are studded with crystals I am sketchy about how they go boom.
So I would not be surprised if we again face some foe who wields gunpowder against us.
I however do not think players will get anything sophisticated, because technological players should be unable to dual class as magic users and the other way around.
As the theory Arcanum states:

Quote:

Magic and technology should oppose each other in a meta-physical way, either by 1 requiring the laws of physics and the other distorting them, or by 1 requiring logic and the other requiring faith.
Even if magic and technology do not interfere with each other on a meta-physical level, then natural selection still demands, mages and Sparks to duke it out for their right to exist as a civilization it´s foundation.

I do not think Anet plans to have us duke it out from 2 sides of a conflict magic and technology should have, in a game with lore that is respectably worked out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lwendvel

and a single-action revolver.

If it´s single action, as in 1 bullet at a time, there is no revolving chamber with extra bullets; so there is no revolving going on in that revolver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lwendvel

Firearms in Guild Wars would be at the very early stages of development so no machine guns, shotguns or rocket launchers.

The early stages would be stockless guns which barely dented armor and where 1 shot per battle, carried mostly for the demoralising effect. Even that demoralizing effect is wiped off the table by magic that can produce actual thunder instead of just the sound of it.

Blunderbusses, which where the predecessors of shotguns where actually invented before muskets, because muskets fire round bullets, which weren't accurate enough to be used at more than 20 meters unless you where firing a whole lot of them.
So the idea of firing shot from a gun was invented first; as shot fires a whole lot of bullets on its own, but each bullet deals a lot less damage.

But even with its improved chances to hit, a blunderbuss's it's optimal range is still less than that of a bow and a lot less than a crossbow.

To get a sniper like you want you need guns that weren't invented until over a millennium after the discovery of gunpowder; near the end of the American civil war.
Instead you could try for a crossbows, you could even use Chinese repeating crossbows (Not the stupid van Helsing gas powered idea, strings don't reset that fast, but the chines repeating crossbow had a lever to go click click with, as if it was a shotgun)
You can squeeze a lot more accuracy and range out of those.

Or with light magic, technically that is long range and accurate too.

I would love a game where steampunk and magic face off for world domination, but don't think there is any chance of that happening in Guild Wars.

jayson · May 14, 2008, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Rifles in GW? Sorry not in any GW I'd want to play. One of the great things about GW was that it stayed away from technology. When I had heard about the Asura being technological I cringed at the thought. But Anet was smart and just made animated golems that ran on magic crystals. Leave that kind of thing to WoW or any other game. I'm happy enough with swords and sorcery.

A Poet Named Virgil · May 14, 2008, 04:49 PM // 16:49

don't think GW would be the same kind of game with firearms. I think all the magic is supposed to supplement that. Firearms, basically, would make it lame.

Zydonis · May 14, 2008, 05:10 PM // 17:10

First let me say, I'm a gun collector/hunter/shooter.

Second.. No.

/notsigned

EDIT: Btw System Crush, Single Action means it has to be cocked for every shot.

Lwendvel · May 14, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

I'll just add a few things.

First off this wasn't a post to plead for guns in Guild Wars but the concept for a new class that would happen to use guns. I realise people would be wary or outraged that a game set,with all appearances, in the middle ages (but with magic) might also have firearms. But as I said, I imagined this to be a class for Guild Wars 2, which is set several years after the first and of all games I would think Guild Wars would take the risk of diverging from the typical fantasy RPG rulebook.

As I tried to make apparent there would be many differences between this class and the ranger. If you're basing your judgement on the fact that both are ranged weapons you need to consider the ranger against the ranged attacks of the magical classes, as well as the differences between the numerous melee classes.

I realise early firearms were often worse for accuracy then a bow or a crossbow, it was more of a suggestion that limiting them to early firearms would be more in keeping and more easily balanced with other class weapons. Lastly it's only an idea so relax, it's not like I suggested lightsabers, if it's a terrible idea it will not be implemented so what's the fuss in suggesting and discussing it. I like seeing new classes and there are only so many ways you can reuse swords and sorcery.

Zydonis · May 14, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lwendvel

I would think Guild Wars would take the risk of diverging from the typical fantasy RPG rulebook.

The reason it's in the RPG rulebook is mainly because that's the way most people want it.

Motoko Kusanagi War · May 15, 2008, 06:39 AM // 06:39

terrible idea

Phoenix Tears · May 15, 2008, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Don't make out of GW2 a Counterstrike Clone for poor ones!!

No Guns whatever for GW2, the world of GW2 is medieval fantasy based and should stay so. GW is no Final fantasy Clone neither.

The G.O.L.E.M Example doesn't work, because this technology of thwe Asurans IS based on MAGIC. Their golesm are no mechanical structures, which work only with electricity and pysical mechanics like simple robots.

The kurzick cannon is just a fantasy weapon, doesn't also count as weapon and the luxon siege turtle cannons are a canthan speciality of as said luxons ..

In GW2 there will ne NO Luxons and no Kurzicks anymore, so there will be nothing, that will use their technology about gunpowder (luxon side wise)
Beside luxons only Dwarfes used gunpowder but only for explosive stuff, so dynamite, not for weapons like rifles, besides dwarfes are no technologic race, when it comes to battles, the preferred weapon of a dwarfs will be eber its Hammer or Axe and not arifle or so -.-

If rifles woudl be implemented, Bows would look agaisnt them complete obsolete, also rifles and handguns are against al other weapons simple overpowered, logic wise you can't balance these weapons, because their fire power and damage potential would be logic wise alot higher, than that of a bow.

When you look with loogic at riffles for GW, they would have then like a damage ration of like 40-75 compared to bows, which have only 15-28. The technology of rifles makes them totally overpowered versus any other medieval Weapon. Shots of rifles are strong enough to pierce through any armor of medieval age and to instat kill foes.

NO JUST NO

Forget finally about rifles, they will never be implemented to GW2 (hopefully), the only technological advancement over bows would be Crossbows as alternative to bows for dealing stronger shots due to alot higher armor penetration bonus (20%AP bonus on all crossbows standart), but max range is only that of a short bow to recurve bow and longer time to reload.
So Crossbows will be then not able to shoot farer, as Long or Flat Bows

Horn Bows will be removed, such bow types don't even exist lol and they will be removed for as said Cross Bows

[M]agna_[C]arta · May 15, 2008, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Wow and I thought and Waves of Crap is over =_=.

Why the hell do you even think This Generation of Firearms would be implemented in GW2?
Obviously it's still based on on Ur Medievil Crap, not some Sci-Fi Game.
So then Obviously they'll implement Flintlocks and Revolvers =P.
Not MSGs and Armlites @_@.

And I am pretty sure the Luxons and Kurzicks are Alive but not Well cause of the Ironhand of Who's-Who Emperror thinks his Kim Jong Il.
They'll probably Revolt in somewhere in the game maybe in Later Expansion.

Rifles and Bows are still Ballancable you Idiotic Talking Fiend -_-.
You just need to use sumthing called an "Imagination".
If you believe "One Tiny Bullet" would deal 40-75 Damage then let's think about it =P.
Comparing to a Broad Arrow which you believe would only deal 15-28 Damage.

There's a Strategy of Ballancing you know how?
It's "Speed over Strength and Strength over Speed".

If a Rifle would deal 100 Damage every 2 Seconds with No Skills.
And a Bow would deal 50 Damage every Second with No Skills.

or

A Bow would deal 50 Damage every Second with No Skills.
And Revolver would deal 25 Damage every .66 Second w/o Skills.

Then who would win?
Also the Faster it goes, Higher the Crit Rate.

And in Skills Bows and Firearms are still an equal Match while Bows have Versatility, Firearms have Power.
While Firearms are set as Damagers, and Bows are set as De-Buffers.
Can Firearm Poison Foes and Cause and Noxiating Gases? or Bows deal Armor Cracking Damage and Hit Deep Organs?

Lastly, If your gonna Stake sumthing of Great Strength on a Bullet.
Then the Minimal and Maximum Damage must be Far to eachother.
Same as how the Hammer and Scythe goes.

Beaten Yet or Coming for some more @_@?

And for Ur G.O.L.E.M prob why don't you look "Mechanical" up in the Dictionary ^_^.
And if You already Know, then such known Knowledge of Mechanics should be able to produce something Easy to come-up with^_^.
And it's a 200 Years Timeskip, Humans can already do that Job why can't the Higher Knowledge of the Asurans can't ^ ^?

And when the Asurans were introduced Semi-Sci-Fi was already Introduced to GW^ ^".
Or we can think of it as Mage-Punk the Magical Version of Steam Punk ^ ^!

poasiods · May 15, 2008, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Hm, talking about gunpowders, I expect characters will be able to have some action on ships.

Should ships be using cannons in Guild Wars 2 or should it be more like the way Romans and Greeks fought on ship? I don't recall if the corsair ships in the first Nightfall mission had cannons, but I'm pretty sure the corsairs did no more than just fire arrows at the village.

I'd personally like to see it go no further than flinging explosive barrels from catapults.

Joseph Leito · May 15, 2008, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Not only /unsigned, but HELL /UNSIGNED. I am SO sick of everything having to have guns! If you want guns, go play Tabula Rasa.

[M]agna_[C]arta · May 16, 2008, 12:24 AM // 00:24

I think I remember in the First Mission in Nightfalls there were Cannons, I think.

System_Crush · May 16, 2008, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by [M]agna_[C]arta

I think I remember in the First Mission in Nightfalls there were Cannons, I think.

No the ships have archers and you shoot them with catapults.

In the 5th mission, you do shoot down a door with a really weird looking siege flintlock(as in: its a cannon, but has a firing pin like a pistol, so technically it's not a cannon, just a huge pistol with a really short barrel)

[edit]
For non NF character the mission order is different though making the assault on Gehenna the second or third mission.

[M]agna_[C]arta · May 16, 2008, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Thanks for Correct^ ^.

Arduin · May 16, 2008, 10:34 AM // 10:34

So basically you could take a team of 8 snipers/rifleman, stay waaaaay out of the enemies aggro range and cripple/deep wound/bleed the hell out of them, while still doing moderate damage and never allow them to get close to you?

Doesn't sound good to me.

payne · May 16, 2008, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mist Walker Skarloc

Yes, it's a ranger. Just let them use guns in GW2.

/thread

no its a ranger with a longbow

/thread

^^