Curse

Tyla · Apr 30, 2008, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

And pray tell what is wrong with having strong builds available for groups to use? The only difference is that without these builds, other builds would take their place, which wouldn't be as efficient. These other builds also may bring in other "cookie cutter" dilemmas for certain classes, and lock out new players from even running the cookie cutters if the group didn't know them or even thought they were a "Noob." Ursan Blessing was a good solution to the hostile environment that the "Older" players had created.

We already do have strong builds available for use.
Broad Head Arrow, Enfeebling Blood are just 2 skills that effectively nullify melee and caster.
The rest is just icing on the cake.

As if the AI's stupidity wasn't bad enough, people need EVEN MORE of a crutch.

Minion Masters / Bombers are another example, they take advantage of the AI easily.

@Clarissa -- Agreed, but professions aren't necesarily excluded from elite areas, a good guild will solve that even better than any skill can.
There is always a way.

Darkobra · Apr 30, 2008, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

And buffing brains of some of the pro-ursan people...

With the ability to be concise and keep things in one thread for both sides. Welcome to Ursan Whinefest Thread 327!

The Red Messenger · Apr 30, 2008, 11:44 PM // 23:44

yeah ursan needs to be nerfed...we all know why.

heres another way to nerf it:

when its introduced, the quest has you kill charr with it.

at rank 10, the main skill deals 75x2 damage to target touched foe.

How about...that skill deals 75 damage to target touched foe. when used against a CHARR, it deals 75x2 to target touched foe.

this makes it still just as useful in the quest, as it was intended, but doesnt ruin pve elite areas and the GW economy, let alone make the game much less challenging and fun.

tehshadowninjar · May 01, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o

Golgotha · May 01, 2008, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Asking for a PvE only skill to be nerfed? Illogical.

Don't use it. Find friends or guildies. Problem solved.

JeniM · May 01, 2008, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Thanks for this thread. I need an early night and wasn't feeling tired till I sat down to read yet another ursan thread whineing about the same crap you all whine about. Really it helps bore me to sleep listening to another UB whine thread.

I thought the mods had said "NO MORE PRO OR AGAINST URSAN THREADS" When they closed the last big one

kazjun · May 01, 2008, 12:47 AM // 00:47

This still going? And yet it still seems to come down to "it makes the game less challenging and fun".

So how's ursan do that? You a pve monster or something? You don't want ursan to effect you? Don't party with ursans. Simple. You can play totally without an ursan, and the ursan's can group with each other. Hell, with all the players QQing about ursan, you'd think they could just party together to do the elite missions with their mythical non cookie cutter pug. And it is pretty much mythical. All elite areas have the accepted builds that you had to use. Trying to pug with anything else (other than with friends and guildies, which isn't a pug) just didn't happen unless you sat there lfg for like 10 hours. Cookie cutter is cookie cutter whether it be ursan, tank and spank or deepwall.

Instead you want to take away ursan. Ursan's won't be able to play as they like, and you probably wouldn't be partied with them anyway so you can play untainted. So either way, you can choose to play as you like, but ursan's have to play how you want? And saying that players can always go with a guild so they won't be excluded isn't really a good argument. It's true you can play what you want in a guild group, but the fact that they're having to resort to pugging, and ursan at that, says that maybe they don't have the guild to do those areas. And the guild argument also be goes both ways. If you hate that so many pugs in DOA use ursan, then don't pug. Go with your guild instead.

And that's the most annoying thing about all the ones who want to nerf ursan. They want and expect everyone else to play how they think GW should be played. Especially since they seem to think that without ursan everything will just magically go back to a time in prophs where you could pug anywhere with any class and any build. Pugging's been dying since factions, and is pretty much non existant nowadays outside of the elite farming areas. People either go with guilds or H/H. That they end up pugging is a last resort saying they can't do the area alone or that their guild isn't willing or able to go with them.

Beating down ursan, which is pretty much single handedly responsible for bringing back pugs to some areas is not a good thing. With ursan in the game, you can still play as you want, but take it out and those who would otherwise struggle to get in certain areas get excluded. If you were to give people 7 heroe's, or even henchies in ALL areas, then I'd agree we didn't need ursan anymore, since there's nowhere you can't do H/H. Hell, most areas you can 4 man with your heroes. But until then, ursan serves the purpose of letting people get greater access to content, which I consider more important than any of it's drawbacks. Course, if you think that people should be exclude until you say they're 1337 enough, then I guess there's not much to say to that.

Game N Die · May 01, 2008, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazjun

This still going? And yet it still seems to come down to "it makes the game less challenging and fun".

So how's ursan do that? You a pve monster or something? You don't want ursan to effect you? Don't party with ursans. Simple. You can play totally without an ursan, and the ursan's can group with each other. Hell, with all the players QQing about ursan, you'd think they could just party together to do the elite missions with their mythical non cookie cutter pug. And it is pretty much mythical. All elite areas have the accepted builds that you had to use. Trying to pug with anything else (other than with friends and guildies, which isn't a pug) just didn't happen unless you sat there lfg for like 10 hours. Cookie cutter is cookie cutter whether it be ursan, tank and spank or deepwall.

Instead you want to take away ursan. Ursan's won't be able to play as they like, and you probably wouldn't be partied with them anyway so you can play untainted. So either way, you can choose to play as you like, but ursan's have to play how you want? And saying that players can always go with a guild so they won't be excluded isn't really a good argument. It's true you can play what you want in a guild group, but the fact that they're having to resort to pugging, and ursan at that, says that maybe they don't have the guild to do those areas. And the guild argument also be goes both ways. If you hate that so many pugs in DOA use ursan, then don't pug. Go with your guild instead.

And that's the most annoying thing about all the ones who want to nerf ursan. They want and expect everyone else to play how they think GW should be played. Especially since they seem to think that without ursan everything will just magically go back to a time in prophs where you could pug anywhere with any class and any build. Pugging's been dying since factions, and is pretty much non existant nowadays outside of the elite farming areas. People either go with guilds or H/H. That they end up pugging is a last resort saying they can't do the area alone or that their guild isn't willing or able to go with them.

Beating down ursan, which is pretty much single handedly responsible for bringing back pugs to some areas is not a good thing. With ursan in the game, you can still play as you want, but take it out and those who would otherwise struggle to get in certain areas get excluded. If you were to give people 7 heroe's, or even henchies in ALL areas, then I'd agree we didn't need ursan anymore, since there's nowhere you can't do H/H. Hell, most areas you can 4 man with your heroes. But until then, ursan serves the purpose of letting people get greater access to content, which I consider more important than any of it's drawbacks. Course, if you think that people should be exclude until you say they're 1337 enough, then I guess there's not much to say to that.

Absolutely agree, now for the brainless (or some synonym) attacks.

Zesbeer · May 01, 2008, 03:45 AM // 03:45

im sorry but who cares its supost to be an elite skill that is pve only that is the hole point of pve skills is that in there own way they would be overpowered.

Clarissa F · May 01, 2008, 03:59 AM // 03:59

What part of "elite" do you not understand? Areas like DoA, The Deep, Urgoz, etc., were meant to be hard for all except those who gained enough experience and planned well enough to beat them. They were not made for the casual player. Otherwise they would have just made them as easy as any other mission.

The "greater access to content" argument is bunk. You have access to every other facet of the game without Ursan. You can do every storyline mission and quest as a casual player. There is only one reason I can think of for someone to want this: they are lazy. How else can you explain it? "some people have lives, and don't have the time...." Well, if you have a "life", why are you peeing yourself about access to a few missions in a game? In PvP there is GvG and TA(sometimes), where you are rewarded for skill in the game(there goes that skill>time played thing again). In PvE, at least there were the Elite missions to give that extra challenge. Remember the tons of threads asking, "How the &%$@ do you beat Mallyx?" Not many of those, anymore, because you get the same answer: Ursan.

If you want to do these areas, learn to play, get some time in, make some friends in the game or get a good guild, and then try it. A "look how 1337 IB" button does no good for the game. It just turns PvE into even more of a 'tard-fest.

As far as "bring back pugs", yeah, people QQ'd about the trinity, but at least that still required some skill. Now everyone can grind for a few days and have access to God-mode in the game. Every other team in elite areas looks the same. Most wanted to make pugs better, not keep them bad but use an easy button.

HuntMaster Avatar · May 01, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

As I have not even gotten ursan's yet, and have no idea why everyone loves/hates it or how its overpowered I say...

/Notsigned.

I would like to use it and discover what the deal is with it before its nerfed to worthlessness or removed from the game.

Someone please enlighten me on ursans and what its good for and why people hate/love it.

Yes I just got Gwen not to long ago, and have only played it alittle so I havnt been able to get it yet, But whats the deal???

Also I think elite missions should be abit easier to access for casual players.
Players should not have to dedicate their lives to learning every detail of the game. Knowing how to play and being obsessed are totally different.

I know how to play, But I am not obsessed with the game, So I don't know every little trick or skill or build or item by memory. And I am ok with that.

To OP: Glad to see another "warriors endurance" player out there! Isn't it a wonderful skill! Almost never running outa energy so you can constantly use your attack skills to do the most damage is so fun, I also run counter attack with it for added energy gain, Power attack is another skill ofcourse that I use. I also run furious axe and executioners strike, those 4 attack skills normally wreck most foes in seconds. Ofcouse This is my H/H build. I also use endure pain, heal sig, mend ailment for condition removal. 9 times outa 10 my H/H group finishes a mission without a single death.

My entire build is as follows ( works well for me in every area with H/H) OQMTEX5WxRo0pRcQF7yWpiEAAA

Game N Die · May 01, 2008, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarissa F

What part of "elite" do you not understand? Areas like DoA, The Deep, Urgoz, etc., were meant to be hard for all except those who gained enough experience and planned well enough to beat them. They were not made for the casual player. Otherwise they would have just made them as easy as any other mission.

The "greater access to content" argument is bunk. You have access to every other facet of the game without Ursan. You can do every storyline mission and quest as a casual player. There is only one reason I can think of for someone to want this: they are lazy. How else can you explain it? "some people have lives, and don't have the time...." Well, if you have a "life", why are you peeing yourself about access to a few missions in a game? In PvP there is GvG and TA(sometimes), where you are rewarded for skill in the game(there goes that skill>time played thing again). In PvE, at least there were the Elite missions to give that extra challenge. Remember the tons of threads asking, "How the &%$@ do you beat Mallyx?" Not many of those, anymore, because you get the same answer: Ursan.

If you want to do these areas, learn to play, get some time in, make some friends in the game or get a good guild, and then try it. A "look how 1337 IB" button does no good for the game. It just turns PvE into even more of a 'tard-fest.

As far as "bring back pugs", yeah, people QQ'd about the trinity, but at least that still required some skill. Now everyone can grind for a few days and have access to God-mode in the game. Every other team in elite areas looks the same. Most wanted to make pugs better, not keep them bad but use an easy button.

Thanks for a lucid response. I will post my experience with this game. I started playing 8 months ago. Got good enough to go to DoA just before Ursan became the thing. I had to pay someone to teach me how to run an Obsidian Flesh tank, because everyone was too "leet" to waste time on a noob. Then, after I learned, I couldn't get into a group because nobody recognized me, and if I happened to get into a group, I was kicked when I asked people to have patience with me and just show me which groups to pull and where. Personally, I believe Ursan was needed to make people look more similar and break up the 1% of the people in the game that formed elite cliques that wanted to horde all the wealth.

The "Trinity" required no more skill than ursan groups. I mean how is tank, nuke, back up, nuke, any different then the often quoted "2,1,3,1,2." And the arguement that ursan requires no skill is also rediculous. A bad player cannot run ursan just as good as a skilled player...you can't fix stupid.

I feel that the attacks on ursan are largly for two reasons:
As stated before, the previous rich people are mad that others now have money, more items are in the game making the prices drop and more people have those previous "leet" items.

The other is simply change. Ursan has definitely changed the game in many aspects, and most people do not adapt well.

Master Sword Keeper · May 01, 2008, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamial

so lets all stop the the ursan threads, the only reason to complain about them at all is
1: your norn rank isn't maxed or you don't have EoTN. both of which can be resolved by you.
2: you pug

Orrr maybeee we complain because little kids come home of an afternoon jump on their dad/moms computer and play Gw's non-stop until it's time to sleep and grind and grind and grind and we're the ones who get called n00bs because we have better things to do than sit on our stupid machines all day and farm silly points. To which my friends is why these threads appear here.

But it's okay, Once all the ursan once-weres goto Gw2, we'll be free to do FoW and UW the old fashioned way and enjoy it.

People are wondering why so many players are just simply giving up, It's because some people are just too inconsiderate and wont give margin of error to allow even the slightest.. E.G R5 ursan wants to join a group. He/She knows they are powerful enough to make some kind of effect, but the group is way too picky and childish to at least allow it...

(return comebacks I'll be facing here and I dont care)

If you seriously even think about writing a slur, then it will actually show me how many people on here are younger than they say they are. :P

But anyway nuff sed.

krypt1200 · May 01, 2008, 04:52 AM // 04:52

If anyone cares about my 2 cents on this issue, this is how I feel. (and probably most people)

Ursan blessing has killed this game. Under 1 hour fow, lightning speed dungeons and elite areas. Driving the cost of things down, and the access to the more "rare" drops in a sense, up. You may not agree, but I feel most people can agree to this once I back up my statement.

The pros that come with ursan, are more lifelike, and down to earth.
UB creates equality in ALL players, just discrimination on rank. Still though, you don't have people spamming LF exp SS, etc etc. You don't get underused classes for cookiecutter builds getting rejected, ie mesmer, rit, assassin etc.

Another pro is the time that you SAVE using UB. Under 1 hour FoW/UW HM runs possible before UB? Well...sure, but to 99% of the GW pop, most likely not. As much as I agree with others that UB is overpowered, look at the time you save, where you can, enjoy more dungeons, trading, questing, or WAIT.....explore the REAL WORLD OUTSIDE!

THAT, is the reason why UB is still used today, and THAT is why UB should NOT be nerfed.

Summing it up....UB is overpowered, and we ALL know that. But the pros far outweigh the cons.

DoomFrost · May 01, 2008, 06:07 AM // 06:07

My idea would revolve around making the damage non-armor ignoring across all aspect skills.

RhanoctJocosa · May 01, 2008, 06:15 AM // 06:15

anet shouldn't touch ursan unless they're going to fix imbagons and the rest of it

Tyla · May 01, 2008, 03:15 PM // 15:15

It rewards grind. Nothing should have rewarded grind. Because it's even more skill-less than the majority of PvE itself.
I also agree on Imbagon getting nuked aswell.
Along with every_single_PvE skill in the game, regardless of how powerful.

EinherjarMx · May 01, 2008, 04:46 PM // 16:46

why hasn't this thread been closed?
the haters QQ because they're not leet anymore
the lovers QQ because the haters never cease

i don't use UB and i don't give a damn about "economy" (ROFLMAO), i can live with it, why the haters can't if in the first place they don't even use it?

for the professions not belonging to "the holy trinity", was hard to find groups then and still is hard to find non UB groups now

UB is shi-te but it's here to stay,

/notsigned

toastgodsupreme · May 01, 2008, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

anet shouldn't touch ursan unless they're going to fix imbagons and the rest of it

I just typed /age in game. 526 hours played total on this account. In that time, beating proph a few times, eotn a few times, nf once, and factions once, along with repeating many areas and missions for whatever reason, I have NEVER played with an Imbagon. Hell, I can't remember the last time I had a para in my party that wasn't someone's hero char just filling a spot.

I never see them hanging out in elite areas. If they are, they must all be hiding behind a statue or tree together so the nerf stick can't find them.

Back to the original topic though...

To the people who say Ursan allowed weak players to play in elite areas:
Not true. Those weak players still have to grind up a title which they usually never do for one reason or another. Be it time, or the fact that they're just casual players and have never spent time grinding or farming anything.

To the people who say Ursan allowed classes outside the normal Tank+Ele+Monk setup to play in elite areas:
If you're not a warrior, ranger, or necro, there's still a chance you'll be discriminated against for an Ursan team. I've seen monks request that the leader kick the caster classes because "their armor is too low even with Ursan". Necros are favored because of soul reaping. Eles are just behind them thanks to energy storage.

To the people who say Ursan stopped most of the discrimination problems (aside from the previous scenario):
R8+/R9+/R10 sounds pretty discriminating to me. Hell, you can't even get into a decent Norn rep farm until you're R5, and you'd be lucky to get that group.

Ursan has done one thing... it's made normal groups for elite areas harder to get.

So instead of a bunch of normal groups with the terra tank, two monks, and the rest nukers, who MIGHT fill that extra slot with a Rit or some other uncommon (for elite areas) class, now you have Ursans. Don't have EotN? Looks like you'll spend an hour or more just trying to get a group. And if you're one of those weird classes that don't fit into the standard PuG mold (Derv, Sin, Rit), you have even less of a chance of getting in.

I run an Ele who's currently R8 and a mesmer which was R7 until I restarted the character. Despite that, despite the fact that I've put the time in to get my rank up, I refuse to Ursan. It's BORING. It really is. 3, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 3, etc.

PvE has never been like, "omg exciting wow i need to change my pants", but at least it was fun to have a little strategy. Now I can just mash my face into the keyboard with Ursan and win. Besides, with a competent group, I can do most areas with a normal group in the same time it takes an Ursan group. Ursan didn't make the game easier, it just let you press 3 keys instead of 8 to win.

kazjun · May 02, 2008, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Maybe because plenty of pve para's quit cause of all the supposed nerfs to paras. And the ones left who know how to play don't need to party with you cause they can walk around with their guildies and H/H taking only like 10% damage? And that para's were never that popular with pugs anyway, who couldn't quite seem to grasp what a para can bring?

And sure there's rank discrimination. Would you take someone with 175 attribs, over someone who had 200? No, you take the best you can get. But boring though grind may be, it's not that bad. Using books at 30k each (check out the book leveling thread in the GWEN section) you'll have r10 long before you'd have r8 LB like you used to need for say DOA runs. Though double SS+LB weekends means that almost everyone has max on their mains nowadays. But at least you can level that up. Boring yes, but you can grind and get r10. What could you do in the old days as a sin, mes etc? Not like you could go out and get SR, is it? You were stuck with your primary, and the only thing you could do about that was to reroll. You had a mesmer, how many pugs did you get in the elite areas before GWEN came out? Or did you have to use your ele? And I mean real pugs, not friends or guildies.

And do you use ursan or not? Cause your post goes from saying that you refuse to use ursan to you being able to face mash a keyboard and ursan. And win. Which isn't surprising, cause if you can win without it, you should be able to win with it in most cases. Actually, a good player should be able to use almost any build and win.

And indeed, one of the things I find funny is that you can roll areas much faster using builds other than ursan. And with far greater defence and utility. Dslash warrs with constant KD and SY are a beautiful thing. Dslashers alone can get dps 3-4 times that of a r10 ursan. Combine that with N/Rt's running all your standard melee support (orders, MoP, barbs, splinter weap etc) you'll clear pretty much anything. Yet it's always ursan that gets all the hate, since most the overpowered builds can't get run right in a pug, due to poor coordination. Actually, with guildies you can run pretty much any build and clear things on par with ursan. So why's ursan considered that overpowered? Just cause the common folk use it? To try and go places that all the 1337 never let them go before? I'd only rank it about 4th on the pve OP rankings, yet it seems 1st in most hated. Funny.

And you talk like trinity needed complex strategy or something. It's not that hard. All the tank needed to know was positioning and the places to corner block and then keep his enchants up, then the ele's go 1212121212 etc. Monks apply bonds as needed and healed and necro's cut ourselves for others. Not rocket science. And about the same level of boredom as ursan.