Curse

You can't see me · Apr 30, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

That's why many people consider a problem. It's not just providing the "bad" players a quicker time through areas that it takes a "good" player to complete, it's removing the incentive to even become "good". When a person sees that they can easily reach and complete any piece of content in the game, why would they have to improve? They probably even don't know how "easy" they have it (if they don't consider it easy already, then oh god).

And when has catering to the "bad" players ever been a good idea? If Blizzard went ahead and added all the suggestions that would essentially make WoW as easy as rolling your face on the keyboard, then I don't think it would've been as successful as it is now.

The thing is, I don't think the incentive was that strong to a lot of the playerbase. Otherwise, I don't think Arenanet would have even considered Ursan to function as it does.

Most "Good" players will graduate from PvE to PvP anyway, so it doesn't effect the playerbase that is actually considered "Good" while catering to the large playerbase that is "bad", thus making for a full scale satisfaction business model. On top of that, the option to play without Ursan is readily available for those who don't want to play it.

the 55 warrior?!? · Apr 30, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

i think its too powerfull for one skill i think you should just split up the skills so u can still use the ursan blessings BUILD just not with a seperate backup build incase it fails

Thizzle · Apr 30, 2008, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

The thing is, I don't think the incentive was that strong to a lot of the playerbase. Otherwise, I don't think Arenanet would have even considered Ursan to function as it does.

Most "Good" players will graduate from PvE to PvP anyway, so it doesn't effect the playerbase that is actually considered "Good" while catering to the large playerbase that is "bad", thus making for a full scale satisfaction business model. On top of that, the option to play without Ursan is readily available for those who don't want to play it.

PvP doesn't change anything. I just tried finding a HA and then I said "Wow, I'm bored". Why AB when you can farm it in Cantha? Why RA when you can get it from Zaishen Challenge quick with trappers? Ursan helped out a lot of classes that nobody ever accepted into groups because they know what happens. Assassins are known to just die along with mesmers. The game just lost that spark it had to me.

Bryant Again · Apr 30, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

The thing is, I don't think the incentive was that strong to a lot of the playerbase. Otherwise, I don't think Arenanet would have even considered Ursan to function as it does.

Essentially "dumbifying" your game never looks good, and further kills meaning to actually having to learn how to play. When you can already kill everything and beat any area with UB, why would you want to have to learn more about your profession, other professions, and more precise team synergy?

There's a lot to learn, explore, and enjoy from Guild Wars. Many, myself included, feel that Ursan creates a bridge that's shorter and ignores all of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

Most "Good" players will graduate from PvE to PvP anyway...

That's assuming way too much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

On top of that, the option to play without Ursan is readily available for those who don't want to play it.

One of my main concerns is what Ursan teaches newer players. Sadly, what it teaches isn't a whole lot, nor is it good.

Game N Die · Apr 30, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

I propose nerfing anti-ursan people.

Thizzle · Apr 30, 2008, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

I propose nerfing anti-ursan people.

I agree. /sign

BlackSephir · Apr 30, 2008, 08:27 PM // 20:27

And buffing brains of some of the pro-ursan people...

Thizzle · Apr 30, 2008, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Most people are mad because they lost the value to their precious ectos, shards, and whatever else you could solo or farm with two people. That's just plain QQ right there. I think everybody should have the opportunity to do everything and anything in the game. A lot of people are like "but I'm uber leet manz I got mah obsidian armor dyed black and dude I spend like 5 hourz a day in the FoW HM man and now some ursan dude can steal my spotlight" <-- maybe not the same grammar, but you get the idea.

Tyla · Apr 30, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30

You can say that, but you can also say Ursan is a double-edged blade.
One side is sharper and larger than the other, and that is the bad side.
The other only gives: A crutch to bad players that rewards grind.

Rewarding grind has got to be the stupidest idea in ANY game, and that is why games like that are boring for the most part.

Yet people just want everything out of the way. To rush all accomplishments and move onto the next game. That is stupid and wasting your money, when you can just play normally, learn how to play your profession and learn skill synergies, and also experience the full content at maximum potential.

BlackSephir · Apr 30, 2008, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thizzle

Most people are mad because they lost the value to their precious ectos, shards, and whatever else you could solo or farm with two people. That's just plain QQ right there.

[I know this is one crazy idea, but stick with me]
OR!
They may not like ridiculously overpowered skills.

Game N Die · Apr 30, 2008, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

And buffing brains of some of the pro-ursan people...

You are right, I don't know what I was thinking. Down with ursan, and nerf imbagon too, and 55ing, and 600ing, and anything else that is even remotely useful. Heck let's just nerf it all into the ground so that we are all playing with the 8 worst skills in the game. I mean that would really prove skill, wouldn't it?

MasterSasori · Apr 30, 2008, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

You are right, I don't know what I was thinking. Down with ursan, and nerf imbagon too, and 55ing, and 600ing, and anything else that is even remotely useful. Heck let's just nerf it all into the ground so that we are all playing with the 8 worst skills in the game. I mean that would really prove skill, wouldn't it?

Go Go [skill]wastrel's collapse[/skill].

Tyla · Apr 30, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

You are right, I don't know what I was thinking. Down with ursan, and nerf imbagon too, and 55ing, and 600ing, and anything else that is even remotely useful. Heck let's just nerf it all into the ground so that we are all playing with the 8 worst skills in the game. I mean that would really prove skill, wouldn't it?

55'ing and 600'ing really has no effect on the community for the sole reason that people don't use it for everything the game has to offer.
There are areas which render these builds useless, unlike Imbagon and Ursan, which, on counters against these builds, are extremely easy to work around or have absolutely no effect on how strong the builds are.

BlackSephir · Apr 30, 2008, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

You are right, I don't know what I was thinking. Down with ursan, and nerf imbagon too, and 55ing, and 600ing, and anything else that is even remotely useful. Heck let's just nerf it all into the ground so that we are all playing with the 8 worst skills in the game. I mean that would really prove skill, wouldn't it?

I didn't know people are 55ing and 600ing everything the game has to offer, even in HM.
O rite, they don't.
strawman alert.

Game N Die · Apr 30, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

55'ing and 600'ing really has no effect on the community for the sole reason that people don't use it for everything the game has to offer.
There are areas which render these builds useless, unlike Imbagon and Ursan, which, on counters against these builds, are extremely easy to work around or have absolutely no effect on how strong the builds are.

And pray tell what is wrong with having strong builds available for groups to use? The only difference is that without these builds, other builds would take their place, which wouldn't be as efficient. These other builds also may bring in other "cookie cutter" dilemmas for certain classes, and lock out new players from even running the cookie cutters if the group didn't know them or even thought they were a "Noob." Ursan Blessing was a good solution to the hostile environment that the "Older" players had created.

You can't see me · Apr 30, 2008, 08:54 PM // 20:54

The honest truth about Ursan is that it all comes down to how you see the situation. Since that differs widely in the vocal playerbase, I don't see how anyone can expect to see it changed, as Arenanet will never get a straight enough answer.

MasterSasori · Apr 30, 2008, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

The honest truth about Ursan is that it all comes down to how you see the situation. Since that differs widely in the vocal playerbase, I don't see how anyone can expect to see it changed, as Arenanet will never get a straight enough answer.

/agree

ANET will probably never change UB and there isnt a point QQ or even talking about the matter. The best the QQ UB threads can ever do is let individuals vent their rage/frustrating/unhappiness which shouldn't belong on the forum anyway.

Game N Die · Apr 30, 2008, 09:02 PM // 21:02

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm getting sucked in to this again. I'll just leave my most previous post as my 2 cents.

On Topic: I don't think Ursan needs to be nerfed....now Raven on the other hand...

Clarissa F · Apr 30, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

I find funny the irony of people wanting to keep Ursan the way it is, using the argument that it makes elite areas accessible to others. They are...'cough-cough...ahem'...ELITE! They were meant as a challenge for people in PvE once they finished the storyline. They were meant to be long and difficult. You had to get a group together and plan it out if you wanted to do it right. You weren't supposed to go with the same people who think it's a challenge to get through Tannakhai Temple with their mending wammo.

I do agree that the whole reason Anet did it was so people had enough to grind away for before GW2 came to the front. Thing is, they kind of went against the whole philosophy of the game, skill>time played, that brought so many to the game.

Of course, if you really want to get away from Ursan, it's easy...

PvP

Bryant Again · Apr 30, 2008, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

And pray tell what is wrong with having strong builds available for groups to use? The only difference is that without these builds, other builds would take their place, which wouldn't be as efficient.

It's not really strong "builds", but "build". Just one build, easy to put together, that can be applied to the most difficult areas in Guild Wars.

Finding these other "builds that worked" was what was the challenge in Guild Wars. In order to fully succeed in an area, you'd have to configure and put together the best team build to be able to stand against all the counters within it.

When you take away the need to put together these builds, you take away the challenge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

The honest truth about Ursan is that it all comes down to how you see the situation. Since that differs widely in the vocal playerbase, I don't see how anyone can expect to see it changed, as Arenanet will never get a straight enough answer.

The two most vocal camps have been:
-Those that believe all players should be able to see all content of the game
-Those that believe that certain content should be left difficult for the sake of challenge

I honestly find your view of being pro-ursan a bit questionable: If they wanted to reduce the time it took to grind, then why do so at the sake of other areas of the game, why not just reduce the amount of points needed for the titles? If they wanted to cater to the "bad" players, why release Hard Mode in the first place? I can understand if they wanted to provide more difficulty, but it doesn't really make sense to add UB to the equation.