Curse

Kook~NBK~ · Jun 12, 2008, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omnidragon42

Don't you think they might have closed it for a reason?

The reason they closed the other thread was because this one exists!

There are already too many over-powered things on the PvE side of things.
/not signed.

N1ghtstalker · Jun 12, 2008, 10:12 AM // 10:12

so like
in AB i can expect a guy with like 30 minions coming at me?
and they're each lvl 18 too if he's any good
what's next
remove the cap on only having only 1 flesh golem?
o yea lets put the cap on flesh golems to having 10!
/notsigned

RotteN · Jun 12, 2008, 10:29 AM // 10:29

retarded idea, the cap is fine, MMs are still powerfull stuff.

Phoenix Tears · Jun 12, 2008, 10:52 AM // 10:52

/signed

remove the shit cap for PvE, let it stay for PvP...

When we talk about MM's with no Minion Cap, then you have to find first A PLACE that gives you enough corpses quick, so that you can build up your little army, without loosing them permanently, because so more minions you get, so harder it will become to keep them all alive, especially while fighting some enemy groups, when you minions get additional damage, beside their increasing life degenerations.

With Blood of Master you can handle only a certain amount, before they become to much and you kill yourself with it, when using, if it would stay at the actual skills effect and wouldn't be changed to its old effect too.

Who cares for MM's ,which can solo a certain Mission, really who the f*** cares about such shit, heck people all can solo this shit mission mentioned theoretically with heroes and henchs. Thisty River is a joke mission, since release of factions, absolutely not challeging anymore, noobs could rush it even with blindfolds on -.- and henchs and heroes would do all the rest...

MM's were really fun to play, before the shit cap came, with that cap they cutted of a big chunk of that fun factor necros had and that nerf is the reason, why many players changed over to curse builds, like SS and SV or toucher builds, because stupidNet destroyed with that nerf the most funny way to play a necro for pvE, and why ? only again cause of some pvp shit that stays in NO RELATION for general balance of the game and with general balance at that time, I mean the true pvp - RA/TA/HA/GvG, because those thigns aren't tryed to be bond with PvE, like AB

They really should increase the limit for PvE and 1 Minion per Character Level sounds there really fair and good for PvE.

nd when they finally give skills effect splits for PvE and PvP, each having their own version, why shouldn't anet do that not also too with gameplay mechanics of certain other professions.

for PvE only:
Necros: get again their increased Minion Cap
Rangers: become able to have simultanously max 3 Pets (each pet using up 1 Skill Slot) and self decide, when they want to activate their layed traps
Ritualist: Spirits become able to move and stay ever in near of the Ritualist and surround their master like a Shield (a la Chaos Legion) and Spirits in pvE can be multiple casted, so get rid of the "only one spirit of 1 sort can be on field"
Elementalists: become able to select the place, where exactly their AoE's should be casted, before they cast them and certain AoE's like Firestorm follow the movement of their targets
Assassins: get Skill Effects, that sets them into Stealth Mode aka. the way better balanceable Shadow Step
Dervishs: changign into an Avatar Form, changes also then their skill bar like UB, each avatar has its own fixed Skill Bar of special Avatar Skills

that would be imo some gameplay mechanics I'd change for pve only including the said increase of necros minion cap.

then those classes would become far more epic to play in PvE , hmm, for the rest I couldn't think for something fitting to them

Crunk N Monkey · Jun 12, 2008, 12:27 PM // 12:27

it sounds to me that some people do not know how to manage their minions, and they are the ones complaining about the cap and it needs to be removed, thinking that it is their problem.

/notsigned

10 minions is plenty

i cleared out Istan in HM solo with my MM build, there is no reason to get rid of the cap.

Shayne Hawke · Jun 12, 2008, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Looks like this thread is going to be closed soon.

I would love to go back to the days of having infinite minions. I never had an MM back then, but I'd love to try and get as huge an army as I can.

But I love PvE fairness more.

/notsigned

Crunk N Monkey · Jun 12, 2008, 01:03 PM // 13:03

they used to have infinite minions? O_O madness i tell ya!! hahaha

NickelPlate · Jun 12, 2008, 01:59 PM // 13:59

I usually take Olias or Masters with me and keep their skill bar open. With a little finesse, you can easily raise and keep a 20 minion mob going between yourself and your hero provided the corpses are around. Just alternate Blood of the Master between the two of you so as not to stress out the monks (Hexors Vigor or Soul Feast when the monks can't get to you keeps your health up from the sacrifice).

With a full party and 20 minions of high lvl (2 golems + whatever else you like), you can mow down just about anything in the game rather nicely. So much so in fact my guildies often complain that everything is dead before they can even activate a skill or get close enough to hit.

Another Felldspar · Jun 12, 2008, 02:40 PM // 14:40

/notsigned

There is no reason to make this change. MM's are not at all underpowered.

zwei2stein · Jun 12, 2008, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Sigh. As expected, Phoenix QQ is doing "retard pve moar" dance.

Anyway, OP, if you want more minions, get more minion masters.

Its not like MMs are underpowered or anything (see: Saabs triple necro vanquish.). Hell, they are not even fun to play to begin with (and that was way back before limit) it's just button smash. Anyway, nowadays MM is way more powerful than in pre-limit days too. Smart builds that require micromanagement skill, etc ...

Kanyatta · Jun 12, 2008, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

for PvE only:
Necros: get again their increased Minion Cap
Rangers: become able to have simultanously max 3 Pets (each pet using up 1 Skill Slot) and self decide, when they want to activate their layed traps
Ritualist: Spirits become able to move and stay ever in near of the Ritualist and surround their master like a Shield (a la Chaos Legion) and Spirits in pvE can be multiple casted, so get rid of the "only one spirit of 1 sort can be on field"
Elementalists: become able to select the place, where exactly their AoE's should be casted, before they cast them and certain AoE's like Firestorm follow the movement of their targets
Assassins: get Skill Effects, that sets them into Stealth Mode aka. the way better balanceable Shadow Step
Dervishs: changign into an Avatar Form, changes also then their skill bar like UB, each avatar has its own fixed Skill Bar of special Avatar Skills

Wow, PvE isn't easy/IMBA enough for you? How about a concept skill of "Kill every enemy within compass range. 5 Energy, 5 recharge 1/4 cast time." Oh wait, you'd ask for a buff on that too...

Kanyatta · Jun 12, 2008, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Its not like MMs are underpowered or anything

This is basically a thread winner. Can we please close this finally?

MithranArkanere · Jun 12, 2008, 09:23 PM // 21:23

The limit was not added due to PvP, was added because it was 'too much' in PvE.

So there is no need to remove it just bcause they make some division between PvP and PvE.

Riceboi · Jun 13, 2008, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

The limit was not added due to PvP, was added because it was 'too much' in PvE.

So there is no need to remove it just bcause they make some division between PvP and PvE.

Yeah minion master aka minion factory was never abused in pvp. LOL

Omnidragon42 · Jun 13, 2008, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

The limit was not added due to PvP, was added because it was 'too much' in PvE.

So there is no need to remove it just bcause they make some division between PvP and PvE.

QFT.

I remember when you could run through Sorrow's Furnace easily holding 40-50 minions with Glyph of Renewal and Verata's Sacrifice. You know, before that sucked too, and BoTM was a fixed health sac.

DarklingKiller · Jun 13, 2008, 04:50 AM // 04:50

How is an MM any worse than Ursan? Ursan allows you to rampage around and kill anything with little to no worries of dying. There are many counters to MMs such as holy damage, a few minion stealing skills, or just killing the MM directly.

DarkNecrid · Jun 13, 2008, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Sure, it seems like the majority of people seem to not care about balance, so why not.

/signed

ilipol · Jun 13, 2008, 06:17 AM // 06:17

The only thing I would sign for MM's would be the ability to retain the raised minions when passing from one area to the next ...

other than that
/notsigned

HawkofStorms · Jun 13, 2008, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riceboi

Yeah minion master aka minion factory was never abused in pvp. LOL

It wasn't. Every team you faced in HA during minion master's hayday was IWAY. And every good IWAY team at the time packed EoE (the unnerfed version that dished out damage even if you were about 90% health), which basically just wrecked minion factory.
I actually used to run minion factory, and let me tell you, it never worked well. I think I got like... 10 fame off of it over the course of ~20 runs.

The only time MMs were "overpowered" in PvP was in AB during the factions preview event. But even then, it had counters, usually W/Ns with 4 death magic and verta aura or EoE.

xDusT II · Jun 13, 2008, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

/signed

remove the shit cap for PvE, let it stay for PvP...

When we talk about MM's with no Minion Cap, then you have to find first A PLACE that gives you enough corpses quick, so that you can build up your little army, without loosing them permanently, because so more minions you get, so harder it will become to keep them all alive, especially while fighting some enemy groups, when you minions get additional damage, beside their increasing life degenerations.

With Blood of Master you can handle only a certain amount, before they become to much and you kill yourself with it, when using, if it would stay at the actual skills effect and wouldn't be changed to its old effect too.

Who cares for MM's ,which can solo a certain Mission, really who the f*** cares about such shit, heck people all can solo this shit mission mentioned theoretically with heroes and henchs. Thisty River is a joke mission, since release of factions, absolutely not challeging anymore, noobs could rush it even with blindfolds on -.- and henchs and heroes would do all the rest...

MM's were really fun to play, before the shit cap came, with that cap they cutted of a big chunk of that fun factor necros had and that nerf is the reason, why many players changed over to curse builds, like SS and SV or toucher builds, because stupidNet destroyed with that nerf the most funny way to play a necro for pvE, and why ? only again cause of some pvp shit that stays in NO RELATION for general balance of the game and with general balance at that time, I mean the true pvp - RA/TA/HA/GvG, because those thigns aren't tryed to be bond with PvE, like AB

They really should increase the limit for PvE and 1 Minion per Character Level sounds there really fair and good for PvE.

nd when they finally give skills effect splits for PvE and PvP, each having their own version, why shouldn't anet do that not also too with gameplay mechanics of certain other professions.

for PvE only:
Necros: get again their increased Minion Cap
Rangers: become able to have simultanously max 3 Pets (each pet using up 1 Skill Slot) and self decide, when they want to activate their layed traps
Ritualist: Spirits become able to move and stay ever in near of the Ritualist and surround their master like a Shield (a la Chaos Legion) and Spirits in pvE can be multiple casted, so get rid of the "only one spirit of 1 sort can be on field"
Elementalists: become able to select the place, where exactly their AoE's should be casted, before they cast them and certain AoE's like Firestorm follow the movement of their targets
Assassins: get Skill Effects, that sets them into Stealth Mode aka. the way better balanceable Shadow Step
Dervishs: changign into an Avatar Form, changes also then their skill bar like UB, each avatar has its own fixed Skill Bar of special Avatar Skills

that would be imo some gameplay mechanics I'd change for pve only including the said increase of necros minion cap.

then those classes would become far more epic to play in PvE , hmm, for the rest I couldn't think for something fitting to them

This post is indescribable.

MM's are fine as they are, they have always been accepted in pugs and recognised as a viable build to run in most missions. They do not need to be buffed in any way.