Curse

upier · Jun 28, 2008, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

Let me guess - you'rte one of that bored fools, that is too blind to see, how much too powerful it would be to buff barrage this way and just needed now someone for your first days retarded flaming today >.>

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

Ok, I admit, I've not thought about it, that Arcane Echo counts only for spells, my fault

So I am "flaming" you when I point out that you lack the basic understanding of how certain skills work - a fact which you then ADMIT?

Sniper22 · Jun 28, 2008, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Um, that many changes to PvE versions = fail. Honestly I don't think anet needs to read someone else's balance suggestions, that's their own job. Mainly they would want our input on more controversial things like SF and Ursan.

Tyla · Jun 28, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Sniper, just because it's their job doesn't mean that the playerbase shouldn't have the right to do this. No matter how bad, good or whatever it is.

MarlinBackna · Jun 28, 2008, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

We both agreed that Splinter Weapon would be changed to be physical ONLY damage, so that it would not trigger with elemental preparations.

I am going to give a resounding "Hell No!" to changing Splinter Weapon's damage type. The reason why it is even viable is that the damage is armor-ignoring. If it was changing to piercing or whatever, the effectiveness of SW turns it completely into crap. I mean, 20-30 piercing damage? Not much once armor is factored in. Sorry if I seem harsh, but Rits are one of my favorite professions.

@OP: Not a bad list. I agree with most of the changes. All professions need a slightly better selection of builds, and this will help achieve that. Not sure if we can break 3-year-old stereotypes, however (ie. Mesmers/Dervs/Rits suck in PvE etc).

Tyla · Jun 28, 2008, 03:04 PM // 15:04

^
Then explain why Splinter Weapon has had it's damage halved in PvP and is still heavily used on the meta flagrunners?

zwei2stein · Jun 28, 2008, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Okay, lets examine this all in civilised matter, my notes in italic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Warrior

Strength

"I Meant to Do That!" - Changed functionality to "If you are knocked down, you gain 1...3...5 strikes of adrenaline, are no longer Blind, and are no longer Crippled."

Pointless - while comboability is more interesting, you can slot in better self condtition removal and adrenal boost skill. Its need to self-kd which kills it, so you either have to bring self kd (which hurts skillbar, much better ot use something else) or depend on mosnters to do it for you (skilled player should prevend kds, not to deal with then is such uber-passive way). If you want meaningfull buff, make condition of usage either self kd or foe kd, which makes this skill usable without self gimp. I would still slot in enraging anyway. this skill has little purporse/

"I Will Avenge You!" - Reduced recharge time to 30 seconds.

If you meet this skills bonus, you are in trouble, if you dont, you just slotted bad ias and will soon be in trouble. Unless you sacrifixe pets or so, but if you want to do that its viable to do so with current ballance. This kill need different oomph for PvE, for example "for each ally withing earshot which is under 50% HP or dead". Trivial condition to meet with minionmaster/bomber. But definitelly not in need of buff

"I Will Survive!" - Changed functionality to "If you are suffering from a condition or a hex, you cannot lose more than 10% max health due to damage from a single attack or spell." Decreased duration to 1...9...14

Prot spirit, eh? This looks like it would find its place on dslasher as it would make keeping him alive even less troublesome. Otherwise, this screams tank. Tanking is kinda fail. Damage warrior should not be under fire enough to make this viable. Prot spirit >> this "selfish" boost. If you want something interesting, remake this to AOE shout wich will grant regeneration also to party members. "We Will Survive!".

"You Will Die!" - Changed functionality to "If target foe is below 50% health, you move 10% faster and deal 10% more damage for the next 0...10...14 seconds."

Interesting.

Dolyak Signet - Increased armor gained to +10...+50...+75.

Tanking skills/selhish defences dont need boost. Self targetting only, movement (and thus damage) reduction make it very bad skill to slot for any reason.

Dwarven Battle Stance {E} - Added the effect "you cannot be knocked down".

Its "ends on skill" that kills DBS, this minor bonus wont help, and is pointless as you cant even abuse unkdability by using stuff like drunken.

Endure Pain - Increased duration to 5...16...20. Decreased recharge time to 25 seconds.

Does not solve "endure ran out, ups, i just died". Make it help party ("Endure Pain!", shout, party members have + 4 .. 48 .. 64 HP), because othwerwise is it just selfish defence skill which cant see serious PvE gameplay because its is inherently bad skill.

Signet of Strength - Increased damage bonus to +10.

Interesting

Warrior's Cunning - Increased duration to 0...12...16. Decreased recharge time to 20 seconds.

Overkill, blocking in PvE is not problem.

Axe Mastery

Agonizing Chop - Decreased activation time to .5 second.

Critical Chop - Decreased activation time to .5 second.

Disrupting Chop - Decreased activation time to .5 second.

Only disrupting chop needs this, being interupt and all.

Hammer Mastery

Belly Smash - Decreased recharge to 20 seconds.

Belly smash is pointless because you can keep foes on group 24/7, blinding them is worthless. If you just use it

Devastating Hammer {E} - Also causes a Deep Wound for a duration equal to that of the Weakness variable.

Interesting, but ES build have easy deepwound access already.

Enraged Smash {E} - Remove maximum bonus limit.

Enraged makes one waste skillbar on skills he is not using (unless they followup spike, but then player looses some serious dps, loose/loose), thats is its flaw.

Swordsmanship

Hamstring - Decreased Cripple duration to 1...8...12. Decreased recharge to 10 seconds.

It take place of utility that is much better slotted on more defensive char. Even in PvE

Hundred Blades {E} - Decreased recharge to 5 seconds. Unblockable.

Interesting. But this this still looks like fancy adrenal gain skill more than damage skill.

Tactics

"Charge!" {E} - Decreased recharge to 15 seconds.

Why? Movement bossts in PvE are rarely usefull enough to make warrior waste their precious elite on them.

"Fear Me!" - Removed recharge.

Why? Edenial in PvE is hardly worth it.

"None Shall Pass!" - Decreased recharge to 30 seconds.

Its bad because of condition, making this skill rarely usefull. This needs to KD even stationary foes to see serious usage/consideration

"Retreat!" - Increased duration to 5...12...18

Why? Its like worse charge, with anoying requirements. PvE players dont need skill for retrating anyway.

"Shields Up!" - Restore previous functionality, i.e. "For 5...14...20 seconds, all allies within earshot gain 50% chance to block incoming projectile attacks."

Interesting

"Victory Is Mine!" - Restore previous functionality, i.e. "You gain 10...50...68 Health and 2...5...7 Energy for each Condition suffered by nearby foes"

Its nothing people in PvE miss greatly. VIM is another in line of selfish skills, and its not that needed, warriors rarely use much energy (and have better elites for that) or need self heal so much that they dedicate thier elite to it.

Deflect Arrows - Change functionality to "For 1...7...10 seconds, you have a 75% chance to block incoming projectile attacks. For each attack blocked in this way, you gain adrenaline (half strike)." Increased recharge to 20 seconds.

To get anything worth it from this you need to tank. No bonus can really outdo that.

No Attribute

Symbolic Strike - Removed damage bonus maximum.

Meh, too bored to do other classes, but you should see pattern.

Abedeus · Jun 28, 2008, 04:31 PM // 16:31

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double with Arcane Echo the effects of the rangers tank skills.

Ranger's tank SKILLS. SKILLS. SKILLS. Now read again the description on AE. SKILLS END IT.

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barrage + Choking Gas alone are imba enough. AE was thought only for increasing the relative short duration of the gas, however. this synergy would allow the ranger to deal deadly mass interruptions vs. adjacent standing Casters. In pvE this would be an easily overkill synergy, because there the AI of casters gives a shit about it, if they stay too much grouped together.

So... I can't bring Broad Head Arrow + Epidemic + Volley? ;[

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Barrage+Arcane Mimicry + Incendiary Arrows an imba mass interruption + burning effect -.-

Mark of Rodgort + Broad Head Arrow + mimi on a mesmer hero set on your target + Volley. Oh, and Incendiary has super-low duration, pretty high recharge, Arcane works for 20 seconds and then you have a minute of useless skill.

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With barrage and ApplyPoison together with Splinter Weapon you would instantly spread to up to 7 enemies huge damage + poisoning 7 foes maximum instanly, without havign to use Epidemic, which is in the end may more energy costing to spread poino with epidamic, than to use Barrage + apply poison, plus apply poison has the advantage, that it has a duration.

WUT? Was hard to understand that part (oh well, whole post was kinda of a mess - get firefox with dictionary...). Epidemic = 5 energy.

Btw, you know why Diseased, Bleeding and Poison are pretty much useless, not only against monsters, but also against players? They can be outhealed fast with LoD/heal party/divine healing/so on, removed and forgotten about.

Weakness - 66% less dmg from physicals in HM FTW
Blind - 90% less dmg from physicals ;d
Dazed - wanding/attacking ele boss FTW
Crippled - well... heroes can kite easier? Helps in holding aggro a bit.
Cracked armor - bit damage on high-armor bosses and warriors/paragons.
Burning - -7 degen that can be used on anything, unline poison/disease/bleeding.
Deep wound - yay more dmg and less healing.

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but especially in pvp are very often enchanted with countless of monk enchants. Eles are nearly perma enchanted to reduce energy costs of their elements.

Read the thread name again.

Tyla · Jun 28, 2008, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Making tanking better?

Good point, although I applaud Sha on taking the time to put all of this together.

Quote:

Btw, you know why Diseased, Bleeding and Poison are pretty much useless, not only against monsters, but also against players? They can be outhealed fast with LoD/heal party/divine healing/so on, removed and forgotten about.

That's the idea of health degeneration. Pressure.

kostolomac · Jun 28, 2008, 04:42 PM // 16:42

I'm a bit confused how would [Guilt] and [Shame] work? Would you gain energy from each hexed foe who cast a spell? That way you would have excellent e management. I would change it to
"For 6 seconds, the next time target foe and 0...2...2 adjacent foes cast a spell that targets a foe/ally, the spell fails and you steal up to 3...6...7 Energy from the caster."
Ohh , it would be sweet if [Mistrust] got that buff too

upier · Jun 28, 2008, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

Ohh , it would be sweet if [Mistrust] got that buff too

I guess you never had your heroes/hench kill off the whole party when facing the Fiery Pony mesmers .....

Boom, boom, boom -> end of survivor.

Tyla · Jun 28, 2008, 05:54 PM // 17:54

^
That killed my Imbagon in NM. I've never felt so [email protected]

Abedeus · Jun 28, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

That's the idea of health degeneration. Pressure.

Yeah, pressure on mobs with 10 pips of energy regeneration.

Vazze · Jun 28, 2008, 06:04 PM // 18:04

lol, OP has no idea what he is talking about. Many of the listed changes would imbalance PvE completely...although the desire for change is understandable.

Tyla · Jun 28, 2008, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Yeah, pressure on mobs with 10 pips of energy regeneration.

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not only against monsters, but also against players?

That's what I was responding to. Regardless, some mobs do not have healers with party healing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

lol, OP has no idea what he is talking about. Many of the listed changes would imbalance PvE completely...although the desire for change is understandable.

Yeah, Ursan (Raven and Volfen included, they saved skill bars!), Perma Shadow Form and various PvE skills such as "Save Yourselves!" didn't imbalance PvE. Heh, one of them is a good friend of "Skill Bar"!

zwei2stein · Jun 28, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Yeah, pressure on mobs with 10 pips of energy regeneration.

There is also issue of skill activation and recharges.

Your monk boss bac have 100 pip of regen but he is still constrained by the fact that he can only heal so much over certain time.

Pressure counts towards this damage. It allow you to score kill while monk boss is using his spot heals to combat pressure on off-target foes or on foes taking collateral.

Combine it with target switching and it totally confuses AI, and with fatal results.

Bowstring Badass · Jun 28, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Barrage not removing preparations? lulz. That would mean [ignite arrows] wouldn't be useless.

upier · Jun 28, 2008, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

Barrage not removing preparations? lulz. That would mean [ignite arrows] wouldn't be useless.

Actually - I thought Ignite causes the mob to scatter?

Mr. Undisclosed · Jun 28, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Onslaught {E} - Changed functionality to "Elite Skill. For 3...17...22 seconds, you attack 25% faster, move 25% faster, deal 25% more damage in melee combat, and your attack skills recharge 25% faster."

Holy shit that'd be awesome.

Neo Nugget · Jun 28, 2008, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Barrage would be so incredibly overpowered if it didn't remove skills like apply poison, ect.

It doesn't need a buff i don't think, though I guess it would make it even more fun to use with splinter weapon.

Stockholm · Jun 28, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trax Reborn

1 nerf thru the whole list and its to SF which most people who are sitting on stacks after stacks of ectos are in agreement with. some are just pointless(swirling arua for example, still useless)

There fixed it for you, since MOST GW PLAYERS love it the way it is.