Curse

MithranArkanere · Aug 12, 2007, 11:24 PM // 23:24

After reading some threads about opinions on people about the titles, the main feeling is that 'there are some of them that force you to grind'.
And that not a big deal of a problem for a player with one character, but it is for a player with more.
You could say 'focus in once character, then' and I do, but I also like to get all my 10 characters anywhere, and hep my friends when they need a hand.
I like to play all professions, so I purchased slots to being able to have them all.
They could just make those titles account wide, but now, since the new favor system is out, that would not be a good idea. We need more character-wide titles.

So this is the deal:
The more characters max out certain titles, the less hard to max out will be those very same titles for your other characters.

Of course, this would ONLY affect titles that fulfill most the following requirements:
- Character Based
- Earned by score/promotion points, not by punctual achievements. That is, titles that can be earned by making the very same thing over and over and over (and over...) again.
- Earned by adventuring, fighting or hunting, not by staying in an outpost or just using items.
- Titles with real use and effects, like those linked to a skills, not only for show.

So, this would affect titles like: Sunspear, Lightbringer, Asura, Norn, Deldrimor, Ebon, Treasure Hunter, Wisdom, etc...

And it will NOT affect titles like Carthographer, Protector, Skill Hunter, Vanquisher, a possible title for making quests, ALL the account based, Sweet Tooth, Drunkard, etc...

Downsides? I can't think of any.
If a player focuses into one character, he will feel no change, but the more characters players have (and thus, the more they support Anet by purchasing slots) the less harder will be for them part of the grinding. They will still spend more time than those focusing in one, and they will still get less titles in each character, but this would encourage players to get all 10 professions.
This do not forces anyone doing anything, but treats those sticking to the game and supporting Anet.

There could be many ways to do this. The best one I can think about is this one:
- When a character hits the penultimate rank of the title, she receives a bonus in points proportional depending on all the other characters that currently have that title maxed.
For example, if you maxed two Lightbringers, and you hit Rank 7 with a character, he receives... let's say 3,000 points per character in your account with max lightbringer (that's around 5..6 Margonite runs, about 2..4 hours or so, I think). If he had 9 maxed characters, the 10th one would get 27K free points, so she would still have to grind a bit, but not so much.
I think this wold be the better one, since it prevents people from getting Plot-related title ranks faster (like getting too soon Sunspear 6 and 7).

I you can think of other ways (excepting turning them account wide, of course, XD) please post them.
This is not a suggestion to just make them account wide, it's to ease the grinding when you hav already grinded with many other characters.

Here are some examples of how to do it:

----EXAMPLE 1 (NEW)----

Hm... I think I have a third way. A very interesting one. Good too for both new and old players.

- 1. First, you count the points that all characters but the current one have earned for that rank, and add them up. We'll call that number the... 'summation', for example. Remember, all points earned for that rank in the account, except the points earned by the character.
For example: You have 4 characters, their respective Norn ranks are:
Gr: 15,000 points. (Summation: 66,000 points)
Mo: 1,000 points. (Summation: 90,000 points)
E: 75,000 points. (Summation: 16,000 points)
R: 0 points. (Summation: 91,000 points)
In other words, the 'total of the account' minus 'the current character's rank'.

- 2. Then, you compare the 'summation' points with the table for that rank:
For Norn rank:

- 3. And then, each character gets a of x% more points depending on its 'summation' until they max the title.
Once the title is maxed, the character loses the bonus.

It would affect points earned by doing things like killing single mobs, identifying an item or opening chests.

But the bonus won't affect 'bonus' points, like the ones earned by making missions or quests, killing bosses, finishing random bonus blessings, picking items (like easter eggs), or giving away books. Since they are already bonuses.

I'm not deciding the amount of the bonus, but I think that +100% bonus every 2 times the 'summation' reaches the max rank of that title would be good enough.
For Norn, for example, you'll get +100% points (double points per kill) every 320.000 points earned by all characters but the current one, so. In our example:
Gr: +20% points per kill.
Mo: +28% points per kill.
E: +5% points per kill.
R: +28% points per kill.

Now, imagine you get another character:
- A Me.
- You forget for some time about the other characters, and max the Norn title.
- Now, she gains no bonuses, since the title is already maxed. But her rank is added to the rest, of course.

With her, things end up like this:

Gr: 15,000 points. Summation: 236,000 points. Bonus: 74%.
Mo: 1,000 points. Summation: 250,000 points. Bonus: 78%.
E: 75,000 points. Summation: 176,000 points. Bonus: 55%.
R: 0 points. Summation: 251,000 points. Bonus: 78%.
Me: 160,000 points. Title maxed. No summation. No bonus.

So, what we have with this?

1.- The more points the character has compared with the rest, the less bonus the character receives. So it's other characters the ones helping the current one.
2.- The far from the rest a character is, the bigger the bonus is so the sooner the character matches the rest of the characters of the account.
3.- It doesn't matter if you 'spread' effort. All characters hep the current one. So changing to at least one other character could be better than just sticking with one. It's no good to stick with one profession. You can play better with a monk in you party if you have been a monk yourself, for example.
4.- The more characters have points, the higher the bonuses each character earns.
5.- You gain more and more points regardless of which character you favor, until you max with that title. A character may not get bonus once maxed, but may still earn points, and contribute to other characters 'summations' (Good examples are Lightbringer and Sunspear). So you'll keep contributin even once maxed.

Hm...maybe the current should be counted too...

----EXAMPLE 2----

Lately, in another thread. I found an 'effective' way to implement this. Here:
Just remember. This do not meant to get titles at level 1.

That can be fixed in many ways:
1.) First of all, at least one character has to max the title. That's Obvious.
2.) Then, that character has to beat the campaign, to unlock hard mode.
3.) For 'core' titles(like wisdom), any campaign would do. They could also need the realms of the gods beaten, or a minimun PvP experience (like getting rank 1 in every PvP title).
4.) Then his grind titles become the 'account based versions'.
5.) Other characters will have their separate title tracks until they qualify to share the account based versions too.
6.) Once a character qualify to share the title with the other characters, his points vanish and uses the account version instead.

That way, characters that play with one character will have much higher points in their grind titles (they keep counting after reaching the max)

Then, for the second character to qualify, we can put one or more of this prerequisites.
1.) Reach level 20.
1.a) And have 200 attribute points.
1.b) And being ascended.

2.) Beat the the campaign of the title, or the core realsm or some PvP experience (just like before).

3.) Reach at least a certain track of the title. (LB4, Sunspear 8, Norn 6, Wisdom 1, etc)
3.a.) That could depend on how many characters have maxed the title in the account. One character maxes ligtbringer, no effect. 2 max lightbringer, you get the account version when reaching level 7. 4 max lightbringer, reach rank 6, and so on.

----EXAMPLE 3----

It can be made so you have to reach at least a certain rank before the track becoming account, and having to max it in at least one character before, like:

1) Add two tabs to the Hero panel. One for the character tiles, and another one for the account-wide.

2) Character A. Works in lightbringer. His title appears in the Character list.
2.a) Character A. Maxes Lightbringer. Character's A Sunspear becomes the account wide version of the title, and appears also in the account-wide list.
2.b) The maxed title is moved to the bottom of the character-wide wide list, and to the top of the account wide list.
2.c) Any further points over the top are added to the account based title.

3) Character B is created. Do not have Lightbringer.
3.a) He cannot select the account-wide version. Red error message: "You have to reach at least rank X with your character to be able to select this account-wide title".
3.b) Character B gains points to his own Lightbringer rank, and also Hero skill points, of course.
3.c) Character B reaches rank x/8 of Lightbringer (probably 4..6).
3.d) Character B can now select the Account wide version of Lightbringer instead of its won one. Lightbringer skills use the account wide version instead of the character version, but points get still added to his Lightbringer title, not the account wide one.
3.e) Character B reaches rank 8/8 lightbringer(max), he maxed title is moved to the bottom of the character-wide wide list, and to the top of the account wide list.
3.f) The character can now add the title to his HoM.

4) Only character-maxed titles can be added to the HoM. But account wide can be selected to gain effects after the character earns a certain rank in its own character-based title.

With this second way, characters have to work up to a certain rank (may less the more chars you have) until being able to use the 'account wide version', and even if they use it, they can keep working on their own titles and max them.

----SUMMARY----

REMEMBER:
- It's NOT "level 1 characters get easily the titles".
- It's "being able to play fluently with all 10 characters using PvE skills without being halted to much by grinding". If you want to add the title to the HoM or you want the Hero Skill points, you grind the title, if you just want the effects, you only grind to a certain point to unlock the best effect earned by the account.

vergerefosh · Aug 12, 2007, 11:51 PM // 23:51

I wouldn't mind making some of them easier to achieve.
Getting to sunspear 7 gets a little boring once you've done it 6 or 7 times, wouldn't mind an alternative to make it a little faster

tenshi_strife · Aug 13, 2007, 12:06 AM // 00:06

yea this is great /signed sunspear r7 X 12 chars lol no thanks

Kool Pajamas · Aug 13, 2007, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Titles are not supposed to be easy to max.

/notsigned

Master Mxyzptlk · Aug 13, 2007, 01:01 AM // 01:01

guild wars is not supposed to be a grinding game
/signed

mrmango · Aug 13, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Grind bores me so. Please let it get easier.

genofreek · Aug 13, 2007, 01:13 AM // 01:13

With favor now attached to titles, I highly doubt ANet's gonna make them even easier to farm. I agree that titles are a pain to max, and I have 11 characters.

My solution?

I'm not maxing everyone's titles.

They don't need it for anything except silly cosmetic in-game pride, and frankly, I'm not that bored.

darkknightkain · Aug 13, 2007, 02:56 AM // 02:56

/signed for anything that helps to reduce grind.

Although I don't really care about MAX-ing of any titles, that will be too grindly for me regardless. I'll leave that to the non-casual players.
But, at the minimum, any PLOT-related ones should have been made fulfillable with less grind the more character you are proceeding through the story..

Getting R7 on Sunspear and repeat this same process N times just so they can move on with the story... this is such a boring chore; and you are FORCED to do it on every single character

And, you can't even transfer Sunspear points from your characters in Vabbi onto your other characters who are still stuck at the "And A Hero Shall Lead Them" forced-grinding quest

Faction's 10k unspent Kurzick/Luzon Faction approach was a much more elegant idea...("thumbs up" emoticon) The quests there add up to that 10k amount, and after the first character cleared it, you are done. All subsequent characters can move forward on with the story unhindered

I wish the Ebon/Norn/Azura/Deldrimor ones are account based like Factions so the forced-grind when having multiple characters is reduced.

Enix · Aug 13, 2007, 06:21 AM // 06:21

/signed

I would like:

-Lower reqs for Faction titles for PvE skills (PvE players earn 5 gazillion faction? yeah right).
-Make Sunspear and LB Account wide
-Link Wisdom/Treasure titles to account

Guildwars is becoming Grindwars/Goldwars due to the rediculously high max title levels which you need loads of time/gold for, and Duplicaiton bug and the mega rich it has made. GW was supposed to give every player equal opportunity, but players who chose to hack/exploit/whatever are getting ALL the mini's and can buy whatever they want in-game.

As an Honest player, I am really getting sick of the grind and my half-dozen whiptails and jade armors. Rewarding players for their efforts is one thing - having unattainable ranks in titles you basically BUY with hacked gold is another.

Witchblade · Aug 13, 2007, 06:40 AM // 06:40

i'd rather see account-based titles only

teenchi · Aug 13, 2007, 04:15 PM // 16:15

/signed. I actively play all 10 professions through all 3 campaigns and it's rough getting all of them the sunspear/lb points. I would like to see a few of the titles go to account based as well. Not all but some. Maybe treasure hunter would be one of the ones I'd like to see since all 10 of my toons have unlocked at least 50 chests each.

TigMagick · Aug 13, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

/signed

well I dont mind some grind, but I agree that ppl that play by the rules seem to get the short end alot.

My SO also plays so I was just ferrying everything for titles to 1 of his PC but I like playing alot of different classes...

I think that Wisdom/ Treasure hunter should be account wide for Salvaging

Just my 2 cents

VinnyRidira · Aug 13, 2007, 09:17 PM // 21:17

/signed

The pointless grinds are absolutely crazy and set up for masochists, who take sadistic pleasure in telling you to suffer. As the sadist said to the masochist "No".

demonblade · Aug 13, 2007, 09:29 PM // 21:29

/sighed
not much about other title grind, i just wish anet makes unlocked skills shared over ALL of your character... i really dont want to start a new character and have to grind for money for the skills and cap sig again

Rogue Warriors Bane · Aug 13, 2007, 10:34 PM // 22:34

/signed
I have around 28 toons,24 which I actively play,the others being designated as guild storage toons.With the shift of GW being moved towards titles ,I find alot of it incredibly grinding.I have toon who has maxed 10 titles and to be honest I have a hard time seeing trying to max anymore.Some of the titles are merely based on how much plat you spend in game to achieve them, i.e., drunkard,sweet tooth,lucky/unlucky.I'm already a Legendary Skill Hunter and now Ive decided to pursue that title again with a Legendary Survivor Paragon just to make it to KoABD.It seems to be getting alot like WOW to me,of which I never have been a fan.So ,I'm all in favor of having more titles account based rather than character based.Maybe Anet will listen for a change, I doubt it thoughhaving spent well over 800 bucks IRL on this game for mutiple accounts/chapters and sponsoring guild giveaways of game copies I really can't see myself playing this until GW2 comes out,but then again who knows,maybe GW:EN will prove worth running 24 toons through.

WasAGuest · Aug 13, 2007, 10:50 PM // 22:50

/signed - it's a good idea; though I would rather see the titles go account wide.

MithranArkanere · Aug 29, 2007, 12:51 PM // 12:51

It's normal having to make some grind with one character, but as the game it is, Anet treats those that haves 1 characte and 25 mules, and punishes those that have all character as players.

R!ghteous Ind!gnation · Aug 29, 2007, 01:20 PM // 13:20

/signed even if it was just 1 extra point per kill for each char that had maxed title (sunspear or whatever) it would reward the players who have 3 or 4 main chars instead of 1.

freekedoutfish · Aug 29, 2007, 01:29 PM // 13:29

The titles I agree with making account based are the ones with HUGE maximum levels and maximum points like Widsom and treasure hunter, etc etc.

But titles like SS, LB, Norn, Dwarf, Asura and Vanguard are tiny by comparison. It took me only 3 weeks of hard farming to max out the SS and LB titles. It took me a grand total of 2 days of farming to reach rank 7 Norn.

Obviously not everyone wants to spend weeks or days farming, and I symapthise!

But you are NOT forced or required to increase the SS or LB titles past a certain small level. You only need the first few ranks to get access to skills and progress in NF.

Also the reputation titles in GWEN are EASY to max out because we are going to have countless quests and dungeons that give 100-750 points each time. Some being repeatable like dungeons. They will probably also add rewards greater then 750 points.

I really dont get this complaint about the Norn, etc titles when we DONT even know how the whole of GWEN will play out. People are basing their dislike on a 2 day preview that showed us 5% of the entire game.

Chances are that later quests and dungeons will give much higher rewards and increasing ranks will be ALOT easier. People like myself only reached rank 7 during that weekend because we were stubborn and wanted armor fast.

But you dont NEED GWEN armor, you can just complete the game and give it time to earn the ranks.

As for this idea of "its harder for me because I have more characters". Well thats your own fault for having soo many characters. What did you expect when you started making more then 1?

Did it not cross you mind to think "hang on, if I make a new character im going to have to do exactly the same stuff!!!".

Be realistic... people are in those situations because they chose to be, not because Anet forced them to make new characters!

/signed on certain titles that have much higher maximum points.
/not signed on ones that only max out at 10k or you need need 56k to get access to stuff.

thezed · Aug 29, 2007, 01:33 PM // 13:33

/unsigned

More and more I am getting the impression that the GW community is lazy. They seem to think Hard Work = Grind.

Just because you have to work to achive something, even if that work does seem repetitive, does not make it grind.

Definition of Grind taken from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_treadmill

"Grinding is a pejorative term used in computer gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive and/or non-entertaining gameplay in order to gain access to other features within the game."

Using this definition GW does have some modest grinding (Luxon/Kurzic faction was the worst IMO). Most titles are a bonus, not required to gain access to other features within the game. They do not need to be made easier.

Can you imagine if they made titles easier to achive how many people would be on this same board with suggestions/complaints about them being TOO easy?