Curse

Kanyatta · Jun 16, 2008, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

This Thread sucks, the idea sucks and fails and you fail with this Thread, sucks to be you, to talk "in your language"

Wow, and I really enjoy how your reason was "You can just only play with idiots, not use items, and don't activate rez shrines."

Ever think maybe some of us don't want to go that far out of our way to play a decent game?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

When I read such arrogant bullshit, I could innerly explode

Strangely enough, I felt the same way after reading your post.

Bryant Again · Jun 16, 2008, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

So if you remove the desire of this group to take part in this mode - there is no need to make the mode accessible for these guys.
And that just leaves us the question - will the people who this mode would be designed for do it for the rewards or the added challenge?
And considering the title of the thread - I'd say that being challenged is the priority here.

We agree partly. I don't want to play for more money/loot/chest drops. But a title for completing all the chapters would be in good order. It would be a gentle nod from ANet's direction of the times before all these PvE skills and crap.

But that aside, there's no reason to have to "cater" to "these guys" in the first place. We know that ANet is providing for them, we just want to know why. Removing the "incentives" isn't the only solution. You could just not listen to them.

the_jos · Jun 16, 2008, 04:22 PM // 16:22

While I like the idea I don't like this to be linked to a title.
A title means a lot of players will do it once and never again.
Or use the new mode for farming, as surgested by others.
So also not too much extra reward.

If A-net should make such available it should be for people who want to do it for fun, challenge and perhaps a little better loot.
Put a timer in that starts on first aggro and stops at finish, allowing teams to post their results and brag about it.
And try to improve their previous times.

That should be enough challenge for the people who desire it while not attracting players who just want to join for loot or titles.

Bryant Again · Jun 16, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Or you could make it a title and not have it count towards anything.

Snow Bunny · Jun 16, 2008, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

This Thread sucks, the idea sucks and fails and you fail with this Thread

Fabulous, Phoenix, now apply that statement to every post and every thread you've ever made.

For all of you saying that this would be another farmable Hard Mode, there are ways to prevent that. Full parties, no cons/pve things, etc. The players, their skillbars, and their equipment would be all that's permitted.
And LOL at saying that Paragons and Dervishes would be neglected.
This mode would be a truly Hard Mode to play in, and rest assured invariably fewer players would be able to tote around a title for it.

ccruzp · Jun 16, 2008, 04:52 PM // 16:52

normal mode, hardmode, farm mode w/a 4-6 min limit till a djjin (a purple one no less) pops on your ass ¬¬
Unless they make one more rank for koabd (i vote "The Legend of Ron Bugandy, Ops.." or the legend of <charname>) i doubt anyone would do this for the chalange, wich would consist of controling your pull and not pulling anything big till you w8 for the purple djjin spawn (by far the worst idea imo, you wanted to add this to stop gimmicks abusing bonders?)
Your chalange mode can easly be reenacted by HM w/o pve skills and conset, a 2 minutes stop every 5 minutes and 8 ppl willing to waste their time, but if that floats your boat and you want to brag afterwards, theres always the screenshot forum.

Like someone said, it gw adding Rewards for a another dificulty level will just bring new gimmicks for farming.

A true Chalange imo would be update the ai so for example, Aflicted rangers dont use Throw dirty on my healer and Broad Head arorw in me (war), or cast all their shutdown hexes on minions.

To the above poster, abt the timer thing, /age works almost exactly like that.

Overall , not signed for farming purposes, if they make it non-rewarding i could care less.

Shayne Hawke · Jun 16, 2008, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

But for making a 3rd difficulty level the rewards aren't worth it imho. It's just 1 title... although a Grandmaster Challenger would be more meaningfull than a GWaMM.

Personally, I think a title showing that I can do everything in Hard Mode without Ursan is something I can rub proudly in the faces of everyone in Olafstead.

I'd certainly agree with your last statement.

the_jos · Jun 16, 2008, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccruzp

To the above poster, abt the timer thing, /age works almost exactly like that.

Yes, that works great on explorable areas.
But a lot of missions end the moment you meet the requirement for it to finish. Kind of hard to do /age when you are in a cutscene

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Personally, I think a title showing that I can do everything in Hard Mode without Ursan is something I can rub proudly in the faces of everyone in Olafstead.

Well, that would be an interesting title.
Next to find a player with GWAMM who has not maxed the EotN grind...

Richardt · Jun 16, 2008, 09:00 PM // 21:00

I like this idea, except for the no H/H factor.

So if it's a full party with H/H allowed, then /signed.

Konig Des Todes · Jun 16, 2008, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

Challenge Elements:
-Hard Mode monsters and effects, all monsters use PvE skills
-All Players use PvP versions of skills, when applicable
-No PvE-only skills permitted
-No Title bonus effects (Lightbringer, Asuran... etc)
-No consumables permitted (con sets, candy canes, scrolls... etc)
-No Heroes or Henchmen permitted
-Instant mission failure if your party has an average Death Penalty of -30% or more

Reward Elements:
-Exp boost of +75%
-Triple Gold item drops
-Triple Rare Material drops
-All Locked Chests drop Gold items
-Double mission completion rewards

Rewards are good, but I think the No heroes is a bit much, along with the no PvE-only skills AND PvP versions. Gotta go a little less heavy on the "Challenge Elements." I would say no Elite PvE-only skills (or no EN PvE-skills) along with the PvP versions, and allowing Heroes, and no consets (candy canes and other event cons are usable). Another idea is to limit the PvE-skills amount to just 1 per bar, which would then remove the SY!+TNTF combo.

My revision of the Challenge Elements
-Hard Mode monsters and effects, all monsters use full skill bars, some include PvE-only skills
-All Players use PvP versions of skills, when applicable
-No Elite PvE-only skills permitted
-No Title bonus effects (Lightbringer, Asuran... etc)
-No non-event consumables permitted (con sets, scrolls, elixirs, etc)
-No Henchmen permitted
-Instant mission failure if your party has an average Death Penalty of -45% or more

Quote:

Title Track

You will gain one point towards the Challenger Title when you complete a mission or dungeon in Guild Wars in Challenger Mode. Three points for Elite areas. This includes:

Prophecies Missions (25)
Factions Missions (13)
Nightfall Missions (20)
All GWEN Dungeons (18)
UW, FoW, Urgoz, The Deep, and DoA (worth 3 points each)

The title track is as follows:

20 points - Novice Challenger
30 points - Moderate Challenger
50 points - Serious Challenger
65 points - Master Challenger
81 points - Grandmaster Challenger

Don't forget Tombs for the Elite Missions, and Sorrow's Furnace. As for the title track, I suggest going 10-25-40-65-100, so that the end points are more equal, and cannot show the title until rank 2.

I like the overall idea, and I will /sign for it, but gotta go a little less harsh.

Nessar · Jun 16, 2008, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Neat idea, It'll give me something to do, also like the rewards

/signed

Clarissa F · Jun 16, 2008, 10:39 PM // 22:39

/signed

it would be the only title I would ever want to max. Right up until A-fail nerfed it.

januscht · Jun 16, 2008, 10:47 PM // 22:47

oh yes neat idea lets get a "HM2" option, then ppl will start complaining about the dificulty, so anet will implement something like UBER-MEGA-URSA-BLESING because the noob players wont be able to farm/complete it. then you can sugest "HM3" ;P

Gmr Leon · Jun 16, 2008, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by januscht

oh yes neat idea lets get a "HM2" option, then ppl will start complaining about the dificulty, so anet will implement something like UBER-MEGA-URSA-BLESING because the noob players wont be able to farm/complete it. then you can sugest "HM3" ;P

Ursan Blessing is our fault. Junundu, while forced on us, did not get a ton of negative feedback which leads to the creation of a slightly more powerful portable version in the form of Ursan Blessing. We can complain about Ursan Blessing now, but it doesn't matter, we should have complained about the Junundu. They were the first to give you a preset build and say, Go out there and fight.

On the topic at hand..I think that you could leave it mostly as is, but make the instant failure at -45% DP as said previously. However, since it IS so challenging there should be a title for those who have soloed/duoed/trioed/quadroed it. Then there should be a default title for those who have done it with a full party.

Cathode_Reborn · Jun 16, 2008, 11:26 PM // 23:26

It looks like a lazy attempt to make PvE challenging. Sure, it would be harder, but honestly I probably wouldn't find it fun at all.

I'd rather go up against balanced groups with viable 8skill bars with a res also. Slaver's Exile is a little like that, but mobs there are still pretty dumb.

I also don't get the no H/H thing.

/notsigned

doudou_steve · Jun 17, 2008, 12:54 AM // 00:54

/signed

This should have been "the" Hard mode

Skye Marin · Jun 17, 2008, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Round of replys:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

I really like this actually. PvE has never been a challenge, and this might actually bring some, especially finding groups (the "no H/H" part).

The only thing I don't like is "Locked Chests Always Drop Golds." Because it would just make outposts "LF CHEST RUN - CHALLENGER MODE". Unless some update gets put in where the general location has to be cleared of enemies to use chests or something, this will get abused.

Other than the 1 stipulation, this is a wholehearted /sign.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

So you wish to create yet another mode of gameplay that is open to only those with 7 live people that are availible to play right when your ready to play and have all the time you have to spend on that particular mission/dungeon/elite zone/ect...and want to do the exact same thing as you....

/not signed...this just sounds like another attempt at creating a better farming mode.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

3 times gold drops
3 times rare material drops
All chests net gold items

YUP, sounds like a farming thread to me.

I've added another line to the idea:
-Also, 2 Keeper of Challenges will pop up the first time a Locked Chest is opened.

I'm familiar with all of the most popular farming and running builds, and I'm confident that there is no solo build or running team that could ever stand up to a Keeper of Challenges, let alone a team of two, with no PvE-only buffs or boons to the party. It could easily beat 55, 600, 330 Rt, VwK War, Terra Tank and even solo perma-SF (which is not really possible with PvP skill versions).

TanknSpank usually uses an Obs tank or some other skill that prevents spell use, and the Keeper of Challenges was designed with this in mind. The element of randomness will pretty much screw over any team that depends on this tactic and isn't pay attention and working as a team. They'd eat up minions too, which is a common PvE tactic, and would be better than Verata's Aura, because the team Necro could just carry a copy for themselves to steal them back. Let the challengers deserve their reward. Farming is far from the intent of this mode.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Why not make "Instant failure if one of your party members dies"? Come on 30% on hard mode without consets or clovers would be not that hard to get.

But overall /signed for the rest. Btw, 3 points per mission completion? Wouldn't people start farming Doppelganger and that's all? ;p

Compare to a HM dungeon, where you can get party-wide near -60% DP, kill a few more monsters, and get that back up. It takes some large amount of mismanagement to fail due to DP in HM dungeons because of the -60% DP limit. This was simply to diminish the indirect benefits of that limit.

Also, you only get points after beating a mission for the first time, and 3 for Elite areas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

I like everything about that.

Except no heroes. That's a big no-no for me.

/notsigned.

As a lesser important thing that I believe you missed, to prevent farming in this mode, is to require parties in Challenge Mode to be full.

Full parties doesn't really solve the problem, because you could join, and then 7 other people quit. Removing H/H was simply to force all players involved to be at their best, as well-flagged heroes are good at picking up the pieces in a team, given an adaquate energy supply and an efficient build. Maybe too good? PvP limits 2 Heroes per party in HA, and I'd be happy to concede 2 Hero spots. Part of the challenge is that the achievement was done mostly by human will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by doudou_steve

/signed

This should have been "the" Hard mode

Perhaps, but the current Hard Mode can't be changed to this, as there'd be more of an uproar from a larger part of the community than from the current, relatively small, number of folks who want more challenge and proof of their ability.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcelmo

yes the game was better in good old days when you could maintain 30+ minions with your imba MM :P
imma trollin

Hehe

manitoba1073 · Jun 17, 2008, 04:28 AM // 04:28

I'll sign this under these conditions only.

1. No way to earn off DP it is permanant while in this mode.
2. No bonuses from shrines either possible.
3. Bosses and enemies also do 3x damage than normal. While also being able to use full 8 skill bar set.

BTW Skye If you think that these couldnt be farmable

I got a surprise Ive already found the weakness to your keepers

and yes these zones would still be easily farmed.

Skye Marin · Jun 17, 2008, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Shrine bonuses off is a given, but 3x damage just isn't fun to play against and is kind of unnecessary.

If you've found the weakness, I'd love to hear it.

Konig Des Todes · Jun 17, 2008, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

Ursan Blessing is our fault. Junundu, while forced on us, did not get a ton of negative feedback which leads to the creation of a slightly more powerful portable version in the form of Ursan Blessing. We can complain about Ursan Blessing now, but it doesn't matter, we should have complained about the Junundu. They were the first to give you a preset build and say, Go out there and fight.

The difference between Ursan Blessing and the Junundu, is that the Junundu were location specific. If the Blessings were made to be location specific (as it has been suggested many a times) then there would be little, if any, complaining. It would be a second Junundu (or third as the Siege Devourer is second

).

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

I'll sign this under these conditions only.

1. No way to earn off DP it is permanant while in this mode.
2. No bonuses from shrines either possible.
3. Bosses and enemies also do 3x damage than normal. While also being able to use full 8 skill bar set.

If these suggestions were to be added, then you switched the imba from the player to the game. That is not fun.

Imba on either side=not fun
A challenge=fun
Hard=A Challenge
Impossible=Imba
Your suggestions=Imba
Your suggestions=Not Fun
Harder than Hard Mode=Hard

Harder than Hard Mode=Fun

What else can I add to that to make it so that an imba game is not fun but a challenging game is?

My previous suggestions still stand. And you still have yet to add Tombs to the Elite Missions for the title

. It is still an elite mission right? They didn't put it back to a HoH arena or anything right? Didn't think so.