Curse

pamelf · Jul 16, 2008, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncan Idaho

More Ursans ...

/notsigned unless Ursan is nerfed

Actually that is a very good point. If this were implemented no one would use an intelligent skill bar any more...you'd just have absolutely EVERYONE playing with PvE skills since monsters can't use them....

Bryant Again · Jul 16, 2008, 12:40 AM // 00:40

And that's why PvE skills, among many other things, need a nerf bat to the nether regions.

...unless one of Mithran's "buffs" included not being able to be knocked-down? How nasty would that be??

Lady Raenef · Jul 16, 2008, 03:44 AM // 03:44

To be honest, I'd rather have a mode called 'Anet's game of U PHAIL,' where I'm not even kidding, they have Monster skills that literally own you. So impossibly hard, that everytime you kill a monster, you get 1,337 experience. That's if you kill a monster.

Each monster has a skill like the Base Defenders for AB.

Yeah, it's called U PHAIL for a reason. I'm not being sarcastic. I wouldn't mind being owned completely like this. More QQ threads to make it possible.

Edit PvE skills to be PvN skills. "Player versus Nothing."

They just look pretty. You can stare at the possibilities of what you could have used. Revert Ursan Blessing to it's original form and let the whining threads begin.

The Meth · Jul 16, 2008, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Raenef

To be honest, I'd rather have a mode called 'Anet's game of U PHAIL,' where I'm not even kidding, they have Monster skills that literally own you. So impossibly hard, that everytime you kill a monster, you get 1,337 experience. That's if you kill a monster.

Each monster has a skill like the Base Defenders for AB.

Yeah, it's called U PHAIL for a reason. I'm not being sarcastic. I wouldn't mind being owned completely like this. More QQ threads to make it possible.

Edit PvE skills to be PvN skills. "Player versus Nothing."

They just look pretty. You can stare at the possibilities of what you could have used. Revert Ursan Blessing to it's original form and let the whining threads begin.

Ursans could probably even kill base defenders. They can get 1k+ health and kd-lock the enemies so their skills are unusable. Untargeted aoe's ftw. GG.

Solas · Jul 16, 2008, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Then why state that? Isn't it obvious that it would be like that?

...wait...So you want the developers to create a mode that emulates PvP (Why not just PvP?) using AI and that always counters your skillbar.....

/not-signed

and as others have stated it would be hard to implement and doubtfully ever used.

Tyla · Jul 16, 2008, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talach

...wait...So you want the developers to create a mode that emulates PvP (Why not just PvP?) using AI and that always counters your skillbar.....

Because in PvP, you need to have a full group of dedicated players who will listen. Because in PvP, it's not balanced anymore. Although fun, it isn't balanced, and for proof look at the builds you see. Enemies having counters to most of your things will force you to have a diverse and flexible team build, while keeping it in the essence of balance.

Quote:

and as others have stated it would be hard to implement and doubtfully ever used.

I thought posts like this were against the rules? It's a concept, and quite a good one at that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant

...unless one of Mithran's "buffs" included not being able to be knocked-down? How nasty would that be??

If that is so, goodbye to one of the best shutdown methods in the game. I wish they removed non-KD'able from certain monsters in the game, but making all of them non-KD'able is beyond retarded.

Solas · Jul 16, 2008, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Because in PvP, you need to have a full group of dedicated players who will listen.

Ra and AB?
Need that too for elite areas.

Quote:

Because in PvP, it's not balanced anymore. Although fun, it isn't balanced, and for proof look at the builds you see

and PvE is?

Quote:

Enemies having counters to most of your things will force you to have a diverse and flexible team build, while keeping it in the essence of balance.

Isn't that What PvP is about, adapting and countering.

2 questions
1) Do you really think that the AI can be a challange without it just being insanly overpowered, With the current System i don't see how it can be done.
WoW's 5 man instnaces are pretty good, mobs of around 3-5 can take a min or 2, they are alot stronger and its mainly a tank and spank but it works nicly.

2) Do you think that there could be a bit of a loophool in which the party of 8 pick 8 skills all having the same skillbar and since there skill bar is countered that they would use skills that would actually have a negative impact on themselves?

Maybe the skill in the enemy skillbar is shadow form, 1 person goes in agros gets the to trigger Shadow Form, the lone person tries to break agro or dies, party waits for shadow form to end and runs in to kill them slowly depending the the 8 skills that were origionally chosen.

Quote:

I thought posts like this were against the rules? It's a concept, and quite a good one at that.

Can you quote the part that says that please?
And the conditions?

was reinforcing that given the choice of a PvP-like Pve Experiance Or a PvP Experiance the most would proberly pick PvP

Tyla · Jul 16, 2008, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talach

Ra and AB?
Need that too for elite areas.

You do?

Last time I recall I could PuG it in HM with a Barrage PuG. The only communication you need are basic tactics such as pulling.

Quote:

and PvE is?

THIS PvE is. This mode should be to sort it out.

You don't get overbuffed mobs, but smart mobs.

Power doesn't compensate stupidity.

Quote:

Isn't that What PvP is about, adapting and countering.

No it isn't. /Sarcasm.

Are you suggesting that it's a bad concept to have to adapt and counter in PvE? Not to mention you already can counter in PvE because of pre-determined enemies.

Quote:

2 questions
1) Do you really think that the AI can be a challange without it just being insanly overpowered, With the current System i don't see how it can be done.
WoW's 5 man instnaces are pretty good, mobs of around 3-5 can take a min or 2, they are alot stronger and its mainly a tank and spank but it works nicly.

Making the AI use skills in the correct order for the certain build is a good start without overbuffing these skills. Oh, and again; power doesn't compensate stupidity.

Quote:

2) Do you think that there could be a bit of a loophool in which the party of 8 pick 8 skills all having the same skillbar and since there skill bar is countered that they would use skills that would actually have a negative impact on themselves?

If the AI knows how to use skills correctly, this can be avoided.

Quote:

Maybe the skill in the enemy skillbar is shadow form, 1 person goes in agros gets the to trigger Shadow Form, the lone person tries to break agro or dies, party waits for shadow form to end and runs in to kill them slowly depending the the 8 skills that were origionally chosen.

[signet of disenchantment]

Oh, and that would mostly be 'Sin mobs. Giving everything Shadow Form would be retarded. It counters nearly everything, but nearly everything.

Quote:

was reinforcing that given the choice of a PvP-like Pve Experiance Or a PvP Experiance the most would proberly pick PvP

/Deletes Guild Wars Prophecies.

Now you have a point.

Quote:

Can you quote the part that says that please?
And the conditions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stickied & Locked guidelines thread

10. "It'll Never Happen!"

Due to the current situation in Guild Wars itself, several people have been seen posting replies to threads stating that users might as well not make suggestions for Guild Wars: 1 because ArenaNet will likely not take any notice, or implement anything else. Sardelac Moderators would like to remind you that this is a place for discussion, and to share ideas, regardless of how likely they are to be implemented in GW:1.

Quote:

and as others have stated it would be hard to implement and doubtfully ever used.

Bolded the main parts.

Mr Joshua Strange · Jul 16, 2008, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathwearer

Sugesting something to hard to do is like sugesting nothing.

Imagine if the world worked like that. "We can't do it! It's too hard!"

I like the concept. /signed.

PvE I can take for about half an hour on a given character at the moment.

And, FYI, OP specifically said no PvE skills, so Ursans = NOT THAR!

Bryant Again · Jul 16, 2008, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

If that is so, goodbye to one of the best shutdown methods in the game.

Precisely the reason.

Solas · Jul 16, 2008, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

You do?

Last time I recall I could PuG it in HM with a Barrage PuG. The only communication you need are basic tactics such as pulling.

Low amounts of dedication and listening are still required, why alot of pugs fail.

Quote:

THIS PvE is. This mode should be to sort it out.

You don't get overbuffed mobs, but smart mobs.

Power doesn't compensate stupidity.

Automatically Countered build's does's compensate stupidity either.

Quote:

No it isn't. /Sarcasm.

Are you suggesting that it's a bad concept to have to adapt and counter in PvE?
Not at all, but i believe fully countering the build is not the way to go either.

Quote:

Making the AI use skills in the correct order for the certain build is a good start without overbuffing these skills. Oh, and again; power doesn't compensate stupidity.

But if the countering targets each skill then the enemy build may be a mix of differant professions and if it limited the enemies to 2 professions then problems may arise.

Quote:

If the AI knows how to use skills correctly, this can be avoided.

Quote:

Oh, and that would mostly be 'Sin mobs. Giving everything Shadow Form would be retarded. It counters nearly everything, but nearly everything.

When you say sin mobs I assume that the 2 prof system will still be in place for the mobs, In the OP the example of 8 enchants could be countered by 8 enchantment removals skills meaning the build would be effective if the enemy used enchants, and I don't think all mobs in the game have 8 enchant removals at the disposal with 2 prof limit.

I understant that was an example but it may lead to problems.

Quote:

/Deletes Guild Wars Prophecies.

Now you have a point.

So Proph Pve and the Extreme mode your looking for are the same?
/rolls eyes

Your trying to get a mobs skill bar to update every time a group enter that instance,Increased AI and make them more like fighting a PvP opponant

Quote:

Bolded the main parts.

Aye, I'd read that more like if a post made that its only comment, where as i included that as a little detail. If i was in the wrong my bad.

/request poll please
I would like to know where a fair amount of people stand on the subject.
As if the majority of people are alreay on one side of the arguement it seems pointless for me to continue

Tyla · Jul 16, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talach

Low amounts of dedication and listening are still required, why alot of pugs fail.

Yet I could have just mindlessly rolled my head on the keyboard still. Sure, I had to pay more attention than I would usually as there is still some margin of failure without consumables and the like, but it really doesn't take it at all.

Quote:

Automatically Countered build's does's compensate stupidity either.

Automatically countered builds forces the player to bring a balanced build. One that has counters to everything that shows up, complete with interrupts and the like. Aswell as making the AI of the enemy so they understand how to use these builds.

Quote:

But if the countering targets each skill then the enemy build may be a mix of differant professions and if it limited the enemies to 2 professions then problems may arise.

A diverse build would force the enemies into a diverse build too. If you run a gimmick, it will be countered by the enemies.

Quote:

When you say sin mobs I assume that the 2 prof system will still be in place for the mobs, In the OP the example of 8 enchants could be countered by 8 enchantment removals skills meaning the build would be effective if the enemy used enchants, and I don't think all mobs in the game have 8 enchant removals at the disposal with 2 prof limit.

I understant that was an example but it may lead to problems.

Interrupts and mass enchant removals such as Mirror of Disenchantment and Chillblains.

Quote:

So Proph Pve and the Extreme mode your looking for are the same?
/rolls eyes

Your trying to get a mobs skill bar to update every time a group enter that instance,Increased AI and make them more like fighting a PvP opponant

And look at the desert. It gives a little bit of the PvP experience by using similar, if not exactly the same objectives as the Hall of Heroes games.

Arlan · Jul 16, 2008, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

I'm not really thinking inside the box. But your wording is saying that even bringing counters for the counters of your builds will be countered. I am saying, for making coding easier, to give most monsters a counter to most gimmick builds. This would need counters to the enemies' builds but your counters won't be countered, which is what your suggesting.

Also, your need to think logically. If you bring a build that has counters, but you also have a few skills that counters the counters to your build, those first counters (the ones that the enemy has) are no longer true counters, and by what your wanting, the monsters will just bring a counter to the counters that you brought, which will mean that you will need a counter to the counters of your counter, which ends up making an ENDLESS CYCLE OF COUNTERS THAT WON'T WORK!

Quite possibly one of the funniest things I've read on GWG. Well done - and it makes sense as well.
Counting the 'counter*'s we have 18 in two sentences. Amazing.

OT - I agree that a harder hard mode would be good - not sure i would like all the monsters to skill up depending on what skills i was carrying - sounds a bit like a cheat to me. Countering (dont get me started) my build before i start is'nt a level playing field.
I would'nt mind going against groups that had alternating skill bars (not so hard to work out or create I think) - so this would, in effect get rid of gimmick or cookie builds.
If you had a well skilled group they should be able to handle most of what they come up against - the 'lesser' skilled - or perhaps more inexperienced groups might do well, or may get smashed up (hopefully even highly skilled groups would get a spanking sometimes) - depending on the skills of the monster groups and the players involved.
Either way - this gives a player skill v's monster skill playing field.

Mind you - hard mode is now normal mode - normal mode is now easy mode. Would'nt take long for the nerfs to kick in (have you seen the whining this year?) so the extreme mode would eventually be dumbed down.
Even the highend hard mode areas are easily do-able now due to bears (don't even go there) running round all over the place!!!

Great idea - and maybe last year even might have had a chance if people shouted loud enough.

I MP I · Jul 16, 2008, 10:14 PM // 22:14

/not signed

I don't see the point in making an extreme mode. Same enemies with different skills, same crappy item drops, some sort of title/emote doesn't seem all that appealing imo.

Tender Wolf · Jul 17, 2008, 01:03 AM // 01:03

/not signed

Hard mode is annoying enough we don't need to make the game any harder. I'd much rather see them focusing on Guild Wars 2 than making the game harder than it already is in hard mode.

Deleet · Jul 17, 2008, 04:35 AM // 04:35

The problem is that there is already a game mode that features this: PvP.

Deleet · Jul 17, 2008, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

/not signed

Hard mode is annoying enough we don't need to make the game any harder. I'd much rather see them focusing on Guild Wars 2 than making the game harder than it already is in hard mode.

Do you really mean this? I find it hard to believe that you can believe this.

glacialphoenix · Jul 17, 2008, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

Hard mode is annoying enough we don't need to make the game any harder. I'd much rather see them focusing on Guild Wars 2 than making the game harder than it already is in hard mode.

I cannot believe you actually said that.

pumpkin pie · Jul 17, 2008, 08:28 AM // 08:28

i like this idea, and would like to contribute something

usually you go out with a set of skill right, well, thats right :P and to make it challenging like you would want it to, and seeing that we have so many skills in GW and only, say roughly 10% of it is being use, the rest are just there, no one ever attempt to try to use them, even if you do, people are gonna laugh at you, hell, players even laugh at you for using stone daggers, which in my opinion is actually very good :P~

so. long story short.

when you zone, game will give your character and heros a pre-made skill bar, one that is store in ArenaNet system, and each time you zone, the skill bar will change for your character and heros.

Tyla · Jul 17, 2008, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

/not signed

Hard mode is annoying enough we don't need to make the game any harder. I'd much rather see them focusing on Guild Wars 2 than making the game harder than it already is in hard mode.

You know, you don't have to play this mode. It's for people who want more of a challenge in terms of PvE. Oh, and if it's annoying why are you doing it?