Curse

Tender Wolf · Jul 17, 2008, 01:06 AM // 01:06

I'm kind of neutral on this one. I'd like to have a higher level cap than 20 since it's so easy to get to, but I don't want to have to grind for hours to get to the highest level or have an unlimited cap.

Now if there is a high level cap or none at all and it's as easy to get to as level 20 is now, then that is no problem to me. But if it's another grind-fest, I'll get easily bored with one character and start another and get bored again.

And I'm getting kind of bored with the game now because there's hardly anything left to do and if there is it requires skilled people, which are hard to find since my guild and alliance are always off doing their own things. So...yeah.

munky · Jul 17, 2008, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Your effectively saying "Just shut up and deal with it" rather than discuss it.Ummmm....nah....

sorry if that's what it comes off as, but what i am trying to say is that if people really don't like that gw2 might not be the same as gw1 in some ways, why not just stick with gw1?

yes some things in gw are good, but if anet sticks too much to what guild wars is now then why bother makeing guild wars 2 and not just another expansion?

MagmaRed · Jul 17, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Whether you gave it a poll or not, this is a GW2 idea, and should be place in the sticky topic for GW2 ideas.

Orfas · Jul 17, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

I agree with most of what the OP why have an unlimited cap then many players will start discriminating other players who's lvl is lower.

Yawgmoth · Jul 17, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Level caps are a bad idea generally, no matter if low or high. High cap is essentially the same as low, it just takes more time. The general effect remains the same - hit the cap and immediately lose the incentive to play and the fun factor that comes from developing your character.

It is possible to make a game with infinite character development while still keeping the anti-grind policy and I believe that's what they're going to do with GW2. And I will absolutely love it when they do so, it will be far better than any other game out there, if done right.

The key is making the power level gains from levels and equipment after a certain point to get smaller and smaller so the character that played for 1000 hours is only going to be slightly more powerful than one played for 200 hours.

Unlimited levelling done right:
*doesn't mean huge power level gaps between casual and hardcore players.
*also doesn't mean pointless numbers going up with no effect on gameplay.
*doesn't mean super high numbers - it can be kept 2-digits!
*doesn't mean grinding! At all! It's just a matter of right design choices.

It can be done right but no MMO did it right so far. GW2 may be the first one! Not a clone but a step further, a new generation.

Izu · Jul 17, 2008, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

- hit the cap and immediately lose the incentive to play and the fun factor that comes from developing your character.

I highly disagree, developing your character is striving for that next set of Obs armor or getting that perfect screenshot of Mallyx's dead body the week DoA came out. Both these things require max levels in the current playing environment.

Plus, I believe GW 1, aka prophecies, had a tagline something along the lines of "All it takes is skill". Elitism shouldn't be about having lvl 1337, but about being able to [Psychic Distraction] every single enemy res sig.

The only advantage higher skill caps bring is marketing IMO

fireflyry · Jul 18, 2008, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by munky

yes some things in gw are good, but if anet sticks too much to what guild wars is now then why bother makeing guild wars 2 and not just another expansion?

An updated graphics and game engine.

The difference is that the level cap is a core element which defined the over all play style of GW1.GW2 being new doesn't dictate they have to change core elements, many of which made the game as popular and successful as it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

The general effect remains the same - hit the cap and immediately lose the incentive to play and the fun factor that comes from developing your character.

The success of GW1 says your wrong.Mission and storyline progression work.

Having a level cap takes the focus off leveling and places it on exploring while demanding an increase of skill to access content as opposed to the fact you haven't killed ten thousand of a certain type of mob in a certain level specific area.

That's GW, and it has worked and been hugely successful for 3 years.

The only motivation I can see for a no level cap is to keep players grinding and to copy the competition.You also have to motivate people to attain levels hence power tiers or player segregation will be a direct component of any high level system, both of which are bad for the game.

They have to be both desired and have some component of reward to the player.They also have to segregate a player who is level 70 from someone who is level 60.Even if it's a text based number floating next to your name and no more it will still create player segregation.

You just can't get around that with high-level caps.

GW is one of the few options outside the atypical MMO structure.Why they want to become a WoW clone baffles me.

Stockholm · Jul 18, 2008, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

The level cap will be raised. It has been suggested that this could be as much as 100 or even unlimited. There will be a plateau of power, where each level no longer adds as much to the power of the character. A side-kick system has been mentioned which would allow characters of a lower level to play with high level characters without disadvantage.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/GW2

explains all we know for now

Yawgmoth · Jul 18, 2008, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

The success of GW1 says your wrong.Mission and storyline progression work.

Having a level cap takes the focus off leveling and places it on exploring while demanding an increase of skill to access content as opposed to the fact you haven't killed ten thousand of a certain type of mob in a certain level specific area.

That's GW, and it has worked and been hugely successful for 3 years.

The only motivation I can see for a no level cap is to keep players grinding and to copy the competition.You also have to motivate people to attain levels hence power tiers or player segregation will be a direct component of any high level system, both of which are bad for the game.

They have to be both desired and have some component of reward to the player.They also have to segregate a player who is level 70 from someone who is level 60.Even if it's a text based number floating next to your name and no more it will still create player segregation.

You just can't get around that with high-level caps.

GW is one of the few options outside the atypical MMO structure.Why they want to become a WoW clone baffles me.

The GW1 model is not a good model for a MMO, it was designed for a game to be played through once and with balanced PvP as the endgame.
This can't work for a true MMO, oped-ended and designed for great replayability. They know that well and so they're making GW2 in a different way - no more having to reach max level for the fun to start (and character development stop at the same time), instead there will be fun AND character development all the time.

And they never said anywhere they 'want to become a WoW clone', actually they said exactly the opposite.

A high or even an unlimited levelling system doesn't mean the game has to be just another MMO clone. There's plenty of room for innovations, but developers of other mmorpgs stick to the same model, the one I and most of us don't want to see in GW2. It can really be different, much better than that, let's only hope Anet devs know that and want to explore the possibilities.

munky · Jul 18, 2008, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

An updated graphics and game engine.

The difference is that the level cap is a core element which defined the over all play style of GW1.GW2 being new doesn't dictate they have to change core elements, many of which made the game as popular and successful as it is.

ok well the level thing is not even that big to me. we don't even really know much about it at this point.

my main point (back on the post you quoted) was more so meant to address Zahr Dalsk saying that multiple races and persistent areas are things that will kill guild wars.

fireflyry · Jul 18, 2008, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

The GW1 model is not a good model for a MMO, it was designed for a game to be played through once and with balanced PvP as the endgame.
This can't work for a true MMO, oped-ended and designed for great replayability.

So you missed the bit where they sold 4 million copies and released an additional two campaigns plus an expansion?

The GW1 model is hugely successful.

They simply don't need to change it, if anything it will be counter-productive as they will just be another generic MMO clone.

As for character development GW was never meant to target people who wanted that.There are a plethora of MMO's out there than cater to that audience and do so well but much of GW's success is directly related to it not having that component in it's game play.

If you want in depth character development it's best to go else where as I do.When I want a quick fix of fun without that hassle I play GW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

A high or even an unlimited levelling system doesn't mean the game has to be just another MMO clone. There's plenty of room for innovations, but developers of other mmorpgs stick to the same model, the one I and most of us don't want to see in GW2. It can really be different, much better than that, let's only hope Anet devs know that and want to explore the possibilities.

I agree that I'm also keen for some new innovations and ideas but you really can't ignore the repercussions and effects non-cap level mechanics have on an MMO.

The examples are already easily found and you really can't change the core mechanics of leveling = reward and/or increase in tier power.

The two are symbiotic.