Curse

Puddin Cheeks · Jul 24, 2008, 11:37 PM // 23:37

This may be in the wrong forum, but it needs to be noted.
There is a gimmick being "exploited" with [Glyph of immolation] and [Steam]

Read the description and you can obviously see the problem when someone casts glyph then casts steam on someone to cause blindness.

There are 2 problems here. The way Steam reads, blindness is "caused" by casting on a target foe that is "on" fire. The problem is in the fact that Immolation says is "spells" cause burning.

The webster's dictionary states:

Cause: something that brings about an effect or a result

Which would mean that immolation is setting someone on fire before the cause should take place at the end of the spell.

This is a gimmick build that needs to be fixed or reworded so it is apparent to all that this is attainable.

In my eyes the skills are acting backwards from one another and it is a cheaper way of getting blind condition than [Signet of Midnight]

Brimstonez · Jul 24, 2008, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Agreed.

I'm seeing more people exploiting this everyday...

Murmel · Jul 24, 2008, 11:43 PM // 23:43

The blinding occurs because the burning of [glyph of immolation]
happens before [steam]

Think, I read it on wiki... Not sure but think it's there.

Edit: Yep HERE it is.

Snow Bunny · Jul 24, 2008, 11:43 PM // 23:43

The way game mechanics work, the Burning is applied first because of glyph of immolation. The actual spell's going-through causes burning; so as soon as the spell gets put "on the stack" (mtg terminology) the burning is triggered.

The blinding condition gets met as well as it's a secondary effect.

It's not an exploit.

MisterT69 · Jul 24, 2008, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Yeah...and it's totally not counterable, omg what to do... [reversal of fortune][mending touch] crap... /exploit fail

Jetdoc · Jul 24, 2008, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Definitely a neat combo, and probably not what's intended by the Devs.

Looks like Water Elementalists now have a leg up on Air Elementalists in the blinding category...

Sarevok Thordin · Jul 24, 2008, 11:49 PM // 23:49

These guys are as bad as SoM messers now.

Except these guys have RANGE.

aapo · Jul 24, 2008, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Well Earthen Shackles is even more broken. 17 seconds of 90% slowdown, which can be kept up indefinitely.

ajc2123 · Jul 24, 2008, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Not an exploit, the glyph causes burning which causes the blind afterwards anyways so by the description, yes, the target is burning by the time the blind effect has time to activate. 2 skill combos can be counters by dis easily too so just leave it as is.

Most likely if you see this glyph just spam an interrupt almost right after its cast, then the steam is totally countered. Unless you are facing an experienced opponent, in which they are allowed to use combos such as these.
Nothing wrong with it. Lets not have people have to use mark of rodgort to use steam now >_>

Also earthen shackles is a hex,, therefore can be removed, and requires burning, which needs some attention which can also be removed, not to mention the 2 second cast and 10 energy is slightly large for a slowing hex which requires a condition to even be in any affect whatsoever. Water line still pwns with slowing hexes pretty much. Its effect is pretty balanced, or even too needy for the effect so its not broken.

Lets fix assassins so they are not limited to 3 builds which will probably also get nerfed, and ritualists whose primary attribute is the worst in game. THEN work on the fleshy eles.

Mourne · Jul 25, 2008, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

These guys are as bad as SoM messers now.

Except these guys have RANGE.

You have to be kidding?

[Glyph of Immolation] + [Steam] doesn't keep 2 people permablind now does it?

Tyla · Jul 25, 2008, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajc

Lets fix assassins so they are not limited to 3 builds which will probably also get nerfed, and ritualists whose primary attribute is the worst in game. THEN work on the fleshy eles.

Can't we just kill them, Paragons and Dervs? 'Sins don't need a fix, they need a proper berial.

SurareVaera · Jul 25, 2008, 12:17 AM // 00:17

I've been using this since GW:EN came out and it is certainly not an exploit. Necro's use Glyph of Immolation with Virulence or Discord and Mesmers can take advantage of the glyph with Fragility. Assassin teleport gankers were so abusive before the recent aftercast change. I got immense satisfaction hitting them with steam at the edge of teleport range. While the stupid assassins would blindly spam 1,2,3,4,5 after a teleport, you could just snare them and finish them with Shatterstone.

I think the Shatterstone Ele with Freezing Gust or Shard Storm + Glyph of Immo and Steam is one of the more versatile PvP templates for elementalists, a profession that doesn't see much play in TA or GvG now due to cast times. Abusive templates like the Me/N Sig of Midnight + Plague Sending Mesmer, R/P Enraged Lunge Beastmaster, Escape Scythe Ranger, Wounding Strike Dervish, Rampage As One Axe Ranger or Thumper require far less skillful play than an Ele that can split or thwart spikes. Finally, the Steam Ele can't keep two people permablind like a SoM Mesmer.

As a ranger playing these fast cast water Me/E's you can treat them like signet of illusion mesmers. Just count to 3 spells and d-shot glyph (50/50 with blurred) - it's not nearly as bad as Signet of Midnight Mesmers that can dance around their touch targets. Glyph of Immolation is just a giant bull's eye. If you're complaining as a melee character, they just buffed antidote signet (burning is applied first, antidote will remove blind). Bring that or mending touch and stop the QQ. With monks and necro's packing draw and foul feast, one steam ele can't possibly pose a huge problem.

You have 2 chances to interrupt the combo, once with steam and once if you get glyph (which can't be fast casted with a mesmer or a 40/40 set).

The cast time for steam is 1 sec vs. 3/4 for b-surge.

The recharge for steam is 8 seconds, double that of b-surge.

Many of the skills in this thread are far more broken.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10307960

TwinRaven · Jul 25, 2008, 12:18 AM // 00:18

It works as intended: REQUEST DENIED

..glyph first, Steam second (meeting conditional "spell"). There is no way that Steam can fire off after the glyph calculates effect or ignore the glyph for three seconds to no effect. Think of it as a math problem with an order of operations...if steam is a spell that causes burning and burning causes blindness, then the spell must cause blindness.

ajc2123 · Jul 25, 2008, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Can't we just kill them, Paragons and Dervs? 'Sins don't need a fix, they need a proper berial.

That is always an option but Anet wouldn't DARE kick off all of their "OMG IMA ASSASSIN SO IMA NINJA" Fans now would they?

The first mistake was making a class that could kill in seconds even though they never wanted such a thing >_>

aapo · Jul 25, 2008, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

Also earthen shackles is a hex,, therefore can be removed, and requires burning, which needs some attention which can also be removed, not to mention the 2 second cast and 10 energy is slightly large for a slowing hex which requires a condition to even be in any affect whatsoever. Water line still pwns with slowing hexes pretty much. Its effect is pretty balanced, or even too needy for the effect so its not broken.

- Don't you get it? Burning comes from Glyph of Immolation (which you can use at 0 Fire Magic) so that you only need to cast it before Earthen Shackles. Earthen Shackles lasts twice as long as the elite hex Icy Shackles. With snares covered, Earth Magic is much better line to invest in for team games. Are you now saying it's completely fine for every Warrior, Mesmer, Ranger to take both condition and hex removal for themselves in Random Arenas to avoid obvious death?

rayd · Jul 25, 2008, 12:35 AM // 00:35

It's called game mechanics, not exploits.

SurareVaera · Jul 25, 2008, 12:36 AM // 00:36

The burning from glyph only lasts for 3 seconds. Unless you are continually casting on one target, you won't get 90% movement reduction for the full duration of Earthen Shackles. Earthen Shackles will never see competitive play with a 2 second cast time (4 seconds under veil). The skill is too conditional and only works in RA or AB where you may not encounter hex removal, condition removal or interrupts, any of which would make Earthen Shackles fail epic hard. Besides the only good skill in the Earth Magic line is Grasping Earth, which is a hell of a lot better at snaring than Earthen Shackles will ever be for a cheaper cost, quicker cast time, and better recharge with an AoE effect.

Spazzer · Jul 25, 2008, 12:38 AM // 00:38

[Glyph of Immolation] [Virulence]

omfg it's like free -a million degen

Glyph of Immolation is fun, but really there's not so much you can use with it outside of that one 90% snare (guy above me covers it) and steam.

[edit] also, [Glyph of Immolation] [Epidemic] works but i can't think why it would see use

bhavv · Jul 25, 2008, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- Don't you get it? Burning comes from Glyph of Immolation (which you can use at 0 Fire Magic) so that you only need to cast it before Earthen Shackles. Earthen Shackles lasts twice as long as the elite hex Icy Shackles. With snares covered, Earth Magic is much better line to invest in for team games. Are you now saying it's completely fine for every Warrior, Mesmer, Ranger to take both condition and hex removal for themselves in Random Arenas to avoid obvious death?

Earthen Shackles doesnt last as long as you think. With 0 fire magic and immo glyph, you will be snared for 1 second per spell. Even at higher ranks, burning only lasts for a few seconds, and all you need to counter a hex which relies on burning is a monk. If you do RA, it is far better for you to take a self heal and condition remover like mending touch for yourself to deal with condition pressure.

And Immo and Steam is completely fine as it is. It takes 10 seconds in between each blind if you count 8s recharge on steam plus 1s cast of both immo and Steam. You use mending touch, and you have 9 seconds left to attack the elly. Interupts also work well against them, even dazed.

Blindness is no where near as overpowered as dazed is, if you cant deal with it, then learn how to instead of asking for fixes.

uzumaki · Jul 25, 2008, 01:03 AM // 01:03

this combo pisses me off ~ on a ele its fine and easily interruptable but on a mesmer with 14 fc ... /sigh

i think the blind duration is imba should be reduced to 6 like b flash with 14 in spec