Curse

Enix · Aug 03, 2008, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Boooo... bad suggestion. So that means that Energy Storage should only work for Ele skills? Expertise makes the game fun for Rangers, not always being stuck with a bow.

Kaida the Heartless · Aug 03, 2008, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

"Time to go reread your own capslocked text i guess...

I clearly said "Rangers will not directly beat other classes at their roles."
I did not say "Rangers will not directly beat other classes."

This means that a Ranger can surpass a class by being "generally" better than it. Learn comprehension.

The rest of your post dealt with build wars and stating the logical about an old saying. I won't even address it.

Just below him is another retard who clearly missed my above statement that this thread isn't just pertaining to the R/D.

Finally, below that is a post pertaining to the stupid, illogical concept that because one primary is being looked at, all of them need to be adjusted.

I don't know but if I hit the refresh button I'd probably see a few more posts by ignorants who refuse to read the recent chatter.

Amazing.

Credit to RotteN for this comment though. The only decent point made in quite a while: "I'd rather have them not change it than pull some half-assed fix on it making everything even worse."

Mr. Undisclosed · Aug 03, 2008, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Tbh I like expertise the way it is, rangers are suposed to be a versatile class.

upier · Aug 03, 2008, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOCB22

oh yes they did such a good job with Soul Reaping let's get them to change Expertise /sarcasm off

This is what I can't help but agree with.
Although Expertise IS broken - we are dealing with A.Net.
So you might as well take the lesser of two evils.
(BUT that still means expertise IS broken and if A.Net actually starts acting like they have a clue to what they are doing - they SHOULD fix it!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord of all tyria

What's broken? RaO, scythes. Nothing was wrong with expertise before that, so expertise isn't the thing that breaks it now.

That's like saying SR was fine before spirits (game-wise not just PvP wise). Hell - that's like saying SR is fine NOW in PvE.
A primary attribute should make playing the corresponding class easier.
We are dealing with an unbalanced concept when that becomes easy rather then easier.
Now I am not saying that rangers and necros (just for example) can not be played well.
The problem is that they require LESS knowledge of the game then certain other classes to play at a given level. And since all classes should be on the same playing field and the more skilled players should do better - this is an issue.

Luminarus · Aug 03, 2008, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Seriously, just make [Escape] end on attack. I mean, you don't exactly attack while you're escaping... that'll fix all the R/D problems. Please don't screw expertise over any more.

Sorry to burst ur bubble mate, but escaping does NOT mean you dont attack. I know for a fact that in a retreat people lay down cover fire to ENABLE their escape.

The problem is not escape in the R/D build. Its the fact that they can run an insane single character spike, on a tanky character without using an elite. If it needed an elite on the build to be useful, escape would get dropped in an instant.

RotteN · Aug 03, 2008, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

I clearly said "Rangers will not directly beat other classes at their roles."
I did not say "Rangers will not directly beat other classes."

Please do elaborate on how the role of a R/A is any different than that of an A/X, or the role of a R/D is any different than that of a D/X.

In my book they both serve the roll of an offensive frontline, ment to kill things. By stating the ranger variant would beat the other class you are saying he's better at that role.

This doesn't count directly for the R/N or R/P though, since they function quite differently from the actual classes basic playstyle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Credit to RotteN for this comment though. The only decent point made in quite a while: "I'd rather have them not change it than pull some half-assed fix on it making everything even worse."

Well thank you

Kaida the Heartless · Aug 03, 2008, 12:31 PM // 12:31

For example, there is no way a Thumper is going to beat a Hammer Warrior in their role of straight DPS. Won't happen. The way a thumper excels is through multiple disruptions to shutdown the enemy and achieve the victory using the same general concept (knockdowns and damage). Basically, the Thumper drops a bit of DPS, but gains advantages in so many other areas that it makes up for it.

The thumper is also quite likely to beat a Hammer Warrior placed in a 1v1 scenario, assuming neither has any adrenaline built initally. With more frequent knockdowns and disruptions, it's going to be much harder for the Warrior to get his combo off, which also takes longer to charge. I realize alot of this depends on the player and the bar, and I'm not saying that the Warrior can't win, but it is much easier for the Thumper to win.

I'm hoping this has elaborated a lil?

pumpkin pie · Aug 03, 2008, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chronos the Defiler

snipped

I just don't understand why it is still like this, it is a stupid mechanic :/

snipped

if you do understand, you'll be able to counter those build easily

and this thread wouldn't even exist.

Diddy bow · Aug 03, 2008, 02:55 PM // 14:55

These builds are more life a few gimmicks than acctually game breaking so i dont see why expertise needs a nerf.

Kanyatta · Aug 03, 2008, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminarus

Sorry to burst ur bubble mate, but escaping does NOT mean you dont attack. I know for a fact that in a retreat people lay down cover fire to ENABLE their escape.

Sorry to burst ur bubble mate, but Guild Wars =/= Real Life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida The Heartless

And yes, prot spirit is a counter for meteor blast unless your prot spirit lasts less than 7.7 seconds.

Switch targets maybe...? Unless your "counter" is "Everyone go /Mo and maintain Prot Spirit on themselves for 25 minutes".

lawlz

Kaida the Heartless · Aug 03, 2008, 11:56 PM // 23:56

It counters it, doesn't it?

Scythe O F Glory · Aug 04, 2008, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Alright, you can't just say "dont nerf it it can be countered." ANYTHING can be countered. But who wants to waste their time and skill slots bringing a counter for a build that your not gonna see EVERY TIME. it's like going into RA as an anti-caster and theres no casters on the other team. Only that's not that big a deal since casters are more abundant than specifically escape scythes and thumpers. seriously.

Tyla · Aug 04, 2008, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scythe O F Glory

Alright, you can't just say "dont nerf it it can be countered." ANYTHING can be countered. But who wants to waste their time and skill slots bringing a counter for a build that your not gonna see EVERY TIME. it's like going into RA as an anti-caster and theres no casters on the other team. Only that's not that big a deal since casters are more abundant than specifically escape scythes and thumpers. seriously.

Anti-melee skills are usually brought in teams anyway, along with anti-caster skills. The fact these guys didn't used to create a problem, before Guild Wars Nightfall shows. Escape Rangers, I believe were seeing use after the buffs to Escape and Pious Assault. RaO is inherantly broken in the first place, as is scythe damage as a whole. Dumb down all of these and voila. The only change I can see to scythe here is nerfing Pious Assault.

Yes my vision has slightly changed on this, but I really think that just taking out these three skills will sort it out for the most part.

Scythe O F Glory · Aug 04, 2008, 01:11 AM // 01:11

well you gotta take out rending touch too, i mean it seems that skill was jsut made for rangers not dervishes. dervs with no enchantments=bad unless they remove there enchantments on purpose (yeah i made a build useing pious assault and twin moon sweep WITH enchantments)

Kanyatta · Aug 04, 2008, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

It counters it, doesn't it?

Yes, it may counter, but if one thing is so overpowered that you're bringing and changing stuff you normally would never do just because of one thing, and you're banking on the chance that you will fight that build, then it is imbalanced, like the people who said bring a character with Martyr just because of WS. Almost every decent build has anti-melee in it, you just have to be good enough to watch the field instead of red bars to make it useful. R/melee's aren't that overpowered that you need to change much, if anything, to be effective against them.

Basically, it's not Expertise that needs a nerfing, unless you hate versatility, but it is about 2 or 3 skills that could use a debuff.

Kaida the Heartless · Aug 04, 2008, 08:57 AM // 08:57

But that logic was that since it can be countered, it doesn't need a nerf.

It's not versatility I hate. I hate being able to use skills better than other classes just because I dump a few points into a primary.

Ever seen a talented gameplayer on these roles? They steamroll things because Expertise is the easy button.

Besides, everyone acts like theres blind ogre on roids holding the nerf bat. 4% Ranger, 2% Else. You can still have your builds; now you can't spam with them.

Tender Wolf · Aug 04, 2008, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Everyone says certain professions are too overpowered. The expertise is fine the way it is. Me, I only use ranger skills anyway but I'd hate to see my primary attribute nerfed because of all the QQ.

While we're at it, let's nerf the assassin's critical strikes so they only count toward dagger mastery, and leadership so that it only effects paragon shouts or chants (since warriors also have them and I see a lot of P/W's).

FlamingMetroid · Aug 04, 2008, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

and leadership so that it only effects paragon shouts or chants.

FIXIN TEH PROBLEMS

Kanyatta · Aug 04, 2008, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

But that logic was that since it can be countered, it doesn't need a nerf.

You're confusing "able to be countered" with "balanced". Yeah, everything can be countered with something, if it couldn't be, then no one would play the game. The difference is how much counter is needed. Almost every PvP team build has some form of anti-melee, which can render an Expertise Melee Ranger useless if used properly. A completely super-high-damage skill with no recharge can be countered, yes, but only by drastic switching of a build and completely changing your playstyle based around 1 thing, which henceforth, makes it imbalanced.

Kaida the Heartless · Aug 05, 2008, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Thanks for stating my point. I'm pretty sure people have been adjusting thier builds all over every form of pvp (except gvg where coordination can beat it). Nerf expertise.