Curse

Tyla · Apr 06, 2008, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrein

A -- the majority of ABers are bad, why waste my time hunting for a good team when i most likely won't get one?

B -- did i ever say it was prestigious?

C -- try staying out of 6 AoEs at once.........not easy is it? and when theres 6 or so people crammed onto part of a bridge..........it doesnt really matter

A -- Guilds, friends list? Find a team with a Monk? Monk yourself? Simply Monking yourself allows your team to not rely on a full person to cap a shrine.

B -- Why are you running me round in circles? You just said yourself right there that your argument is moot.

C -- I plan my positioning. Don't forget those broken shadowsteps which degenerate positioning. Or maybe I would of interrupted 2 of those AoE's already. If I see myself on the bridge and there's Elementalists cooking up some AoE, I move.

Also, you're taking things badly now. Not everyone plays D-Slash, sure it's got pressure and the highest DPS in the game, but the whole blocking thing makes it quite redundant.

You're just arguing for the sake of arguing now.

Pyro maniac · Apr 06, 2008, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrein

you didnt answer my question

are you serious? Mashing dragon slash is as dumb as a R/D scythe attack spammer. Everyone can play that 'l33t', so my answer is obviously yes.
I don't get it however.

Maybe this thread should get locked tho, while I do understand that there are people who oppose to the nerf and got a point (shru for example). Only the clueless people are left atm derailing this already failing thread (Kyrein).

Kyrein · Apr 06, 2008, 10:26 PM // 22:26

A -- my guild is pve
why would i want a monk? they do badly when separated from their team

B -- how am i running around you in circles? i never said it was "prestigious"
prestige has nothing to do with whether my fc ele works or not

C -- like you said, most people in AB are stupid

and pyro, you call me skillless, for using a fc ele, when you use d-slash

Pyro maniac · Apr 06, 2008, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrein

and pyro, you call me skillless, for using a fc ele, when you use d-slash

How is PvE related to PvP?
And I don't call you skill-less, I've used a thumper as well, same as for other gimmick crap. Doesn't mean I don't think they shouldn't be deleted from the game.

Kyrein · Apr 06, 2008, 10:30 PM // 22:30

im just gonna sit back and lol at the fact that you have no idea what im talking about when its something this simple

Tyla · Apr 06, 2008, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrein

A -- my guild is pve
why would i want a monk? they do badly when separated from their team

B -- how am i running around you in circles? i never said it was "prestigious"
prestige has nothing to do with whether my fc ele works or not

C -- like you said, most people in AB are stupid

and pyro, you call me skillless

A -- If you Monk, you're keeping your team alive, thus helping them stay together. And I always see PvE guilds ABing. I'm surprised at that.

B -- Not relying on bad AI / bad players > relying on it. If I can win AB's with FrenzyHealSigging, it's obvious AB is pathetic. If not for people in AB being as bad as monsters pre-AoE nerf, that build wouldn't work.

C -- You told ME "Try staying out of 6 AoE's at once".

@Above post -- In that case, IF I am misunderstanding you, explain. I myself see no misunderstanding of your posts in my posts. Only you misunderstanding my posts.

Kyrein · Apr 06, 2008, 10:35 PM // 22:35

A -- no monk can keep everybody alive when the other 2 noobs run off in different directions.
you don't know my guild, whats your point?

B -- once again, you have failed to read my post
YOU CAN WIN WITH FRENZY HEAL SIG, WE GET IT!!!
what you cant do, IS CONTRIBUTE TO THAT VICTORY!!!
YOUR TEAM WAS BETTER THAN THEIRS EVEN WITH YOU ON IT!!!

omg i use a build that works, how sad.

C -- congratulations, you can read

like the wise man said, you cant win an argument with a moron

he was right

i give up

Tyla · Apr 06, 2008, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrein

A -- no monk can keep everybody alive when the other 2 noobs run off in different directions.
you don't know my guild, whats your point?

B -- once again, you have failed to read my post
YOU CAN WIN WITH FRENZY HEAL SIG, WE GET IT!!!
what you cant do, IS CONTRIBUTE TO THAT VICTORY!!!
YOUR TEAM WAS BETTER THAN THEIRS EVEN WITH YOU ON IT!!!

omg i use a build that works, how sad.

C -- congratulations, you can read

A -- Slap a Guardian on them? Easy peasy. Dark Escape to catch up? You can always use Return.
Maybe I don't know your guild, either. My point is most PvE guilds I see AB aswell.

B -- Once again, you have failed at realising if you can win by that, AB is obviously easy to win. The Warrior doing that is contributing to the enemy by giving them free kills, and being useless on the side you're playing for. Such a huge advantage to the other side.
I've also done it dual aswell.

P.S -- It works off people being bad, like Nukers.

C -- Then in that case "people in AB" would mean only me? I'm not stupid, so that "people" is irrelevent. Stop using shitty arguments.

@Your most recent edit -- I suppose you're the moron here. Your latest arguments have equaled to moot, and you have brought forward nothing supporting why it shouldn't be nerfed.

Skyy High · Apr 06, 2008, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

are you serious? Mashing dragon slash is as dumb as a R/D scythe attack spammer. Everyone can play that 'l33t', so my answer is obviously yes.

DSlash was meta for a bit.

And the point is made: you can make a dumb button mashing build (especially a melee build) without "exploiting" a secondary. Removing thumpers won't remove dumb, button mashing builds, and if it won't accomplish even that, what's the point of removing them?

BTW, both of you are being morons. The A, B, C crap can stop now.

Tyla · Apr 07, 2008, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

DSlash was meta for a bit.

And the point is made: you can make a dumb button mashing build (especially a melee build) without "exploiting" a secondary. Removing thumpers won't remove dumb, button mashing builds, and if it won't accomplish even that, what's the point of removing them?

BTW, both of you are being morons. The A, B, C crap can stop now.

You've got a point there, but I'm still going to disagree a bit. You've forgotten that your common Rush / Frenzy (ofcourse on a Warrior) also needs to know when to use those stances at the right times, and you've still got Bull's Strike, that can be used offensively and defensively.
Smart usage still promotes some decent play. But yeah, your point still stands on spamming D-Slash.

However you've got RaO on your common Thumper, which is an unstrippable IAS / Speedboost with no significant bad point. That skill is pretty broken in itself. And needs no insight on when to use it, apart from times when your energy get low.

Tearz1993 · Apr 07, 2008, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Kyrein made me lol

~ Dan ~ · Apr 07, 2008, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrein

im just gonna sit back and lol at the fact that you have no idea what im talking about when its something this simple

A- I'm not surprised.

B- He isn't the only one.

C- Try constructing a proper post.

Pyro maniac · Apr 07, 2008, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

DSlash was meta for a bit.

I know, we've played it for several matches. Was 4 months ago though, not worth mentioning now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

And the point is made: you can make a dumb button mashing build (especially a melee build) without "exploiting" a secondary. Removing thumpers won't remove dumb, button mashing builds, and if it won't accomplish even that, what's the point of removing them?

Of course it won't remove all button-mashing builds, however now you're saying: just because there are other dumb builds available, these ranger builds should exist too.

And yes, I do get your point that in the thumper template (I love the fact that you guys only mention the thumper template while it is about all the R/A, R/Rt, R/W, R/P, R/D etc) the skill RaO is actually more important then the expertise. Doesn't mean you can implement both. I've never said nerfing expertise will fix all the problems in guild wars balance, it does fix some problems while there are no downsides.

NamelessBeauty · Apr 07, 2008, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chronos the Defiler

this has been suggested SO many times it is not even funny, but I have yet to discover why the Anet dev team has not changed expertise to only effect ranger skills.

right now we see rangers that pretty much run every attacker class..

R/W Thumper
R/P Pack Hunter
R/D Escape Scythe
R/A pretty much same as the rest
R/N toucher
I have even seen R/Rt spamming spirits

I just don't understand why it is still like this, it is a stupid mechanic :/

You really think R/W is made because of expertise? LMAO no. It's from beastmaster that make it effective!

R/P is the same. Without RaO it's shit.

R/A = Stupid x 2! Period lol

R/N = Free wins lol!

So why need to change? LOL

Itokaru · Apr 08, 2008, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by NamelessBeauty

You really think R/W is made because of expertise? LMAO no. It's from beastmaster that make it effective!

I'd like to see you keep RaO up with it's energy cost

Looks like what Tyla is saying, is that 'builds that require little skill should be nerfed so that only pros can play PvP'.

Tell me, Tyla, how are new players supposed to learn how to PvP, then? Everyone starts off on an easy build, then works their way up to a harder one, unless they think that they are too "pro" to use an easy build.

~ Dan ~ · Apr 08, 2008, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itokaru

Tell me, Tyla, how are new players supposed to learn how to PvP, then? Everyone starts off on an easy build, then works their way up to a harder one, unless they think that they are too "pro" to use an easy build.

Not really. Tell me, what are they learning from c-spacing fame?

You know what the sad thing is? They aren't going to give that up. These idiots are not there to "work their way up starting from a bad build". They just want to c-space bambi's to show their PvE guildies.

If someone wanted to learn basics, they don't need to run scrub builds in HA. They could find a decent-ish bar (at the very least) and go to RA. The arenas teach positioning, kiting etc; which are basic things you can always practice, regardless of your bar.

Ab works, too:

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

AB trains movement and positioning.

incidently, movement and positioning is what this game is all about, if you remove builds, map objectives, and other superficial fluff.

therefore, AB train the most fundamental basics of the game, which is important if you want to get better at it.

Now, which part of that depends on your skillbar? You see, someone could become a decent pvp'er without really knowing what their skillbar does. All they need then is some IQ to use those skills correctly (which many players on GW lack) and then experience.

It really isn't all that hard to break into the PvP scene at all on GW. You just fail to realize that the majority are morons who want nothing more than a braindead build to get some flashy emote.

legion_rat · Apr 08, 2008, 12:03 PM // 12:03

wow what happened to the OP? Now everyone is bitching about lame players in PvP and who has 1337 skills and who doesnt. Ok compared to you I have no skill, compared to me you have none. See how this game works?

Again to the OP:

/notsigned Leave expertise alone.

see the stupid fight you started.

~the rat~

makosi · Apr 08, 2008, 12:57 PM // 12:57

If they don't want to nerf expertise, buff everything else. Why is Divine Favour limited to monk skills only? Why is Spawning Power limited to Weapon Spells (rit only) and summoned creatures (gg Rt/N MM).

The game is all about physicals. Casters are so dependent on energy and have to take great care to manage it. Warriors get adrenal skills, Paragons get adrenal skills and Leadership, Rangers get Expertise, Assassins get Critical Strikes, Dervishes get Mysticysm.

The point is, physicals easily and passively get energy management and Anet nerfs Soul Reaping on a caster class with some extortionately priced skills. They also make crap like Peace and Harmony and elite skill.

Nerfing expertise is a start, but the dev team need to take a step back and look at the broad picture.

Cebe · Apr 08, 2008, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Poll Added.

Please keep this thread on topic otherwise it will be locked down.

phan · Apr 08, 2008, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Nerfing expertise would be so wrong ;

Anet or the "original skill makers" forced Expertise to be so good because ; they made all the ranger skills to energy high for a 3» char

People even chose the attributes chosen on the attribute ;

warrior : strenght » is bad ; but got some nice skills in it
elementist : e-storage » is absolute crap .. only needed because Anet decided to make ele skills cost so much + they have a waisted slot on an attunement they have to use .

So it would be better to buff these then to nerf expertise ..

Greetz ; a Cripshot ranger =)

Edit : I've read some pages and seriously some people that post here never played ranger if you ask me .
The thing why i like them is their difference in playing everytime

RaO thumper ; magebane ; BA degen ; PvE runnr ; Tyrian - Canthan - Elonian Chestrunning ; RaO Chuckr ; HaO Chuckr ; ranger spike ; legoway ; balanced GvG cripshot ; split BA and so on ..