Curse

kostolomac · Aug 05, 2008, 01:14 AM // 01:14

PvE skills are tied to grind , which makes them very different than the anti grind concept of GW.

My proposal is that the power of the skill in question is tied to the story rather than a title.

For example the power of the norn , asura , ebon and dwarven skills will be scaled to to advancement of the story. After completing the main quests (and side quests maybe) in NM you would have the skills at r6 or r8 of their power. By doing all the primary quests in HM the power of the skills would be equivalent to r10.

The SS and LB skills would be tied to mission completition , and kurzick/luzon skills to number of missions and quests completed.

Those who want the titles can still grind them , but it won't make them more powerful just by grinding.

Your thoughts on this idea?

Mortal Amongst Mere Gods · Aug 05, 2008, 01:26 AM // 01:26

This would be a good idea, but I think it's too easy that way. People would have Ursan, Pain Inverter, Brawling Headbutt, etc., up to effective r10 way too easily. It's still a good idea, though. I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate being saved the grind.

/undecided

Tyla · Aug 05, 2008, 01:28 AM // 01:28

I'd rather have it based on attribution, but this sounds quite nice too.

/Signed because removing beneficial grind as far as possible is always good.

Zeerok · Aug 05, 2008, 01:40 AM // 01:40

/signed

I especially like the idea for Kurzick/Luxon titles, because not many people have the time to get r12 Kurzick/Luxon.

Karate Jesus · Aug 05, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Idk, I think this would piss a lot of people off who had to grind forever to get these titles maxed.

I agree that the skills and titles go against the "anti-grind" mentality of the game, but this sounds too easy. Honestly, I would be R10 everything now on like 4 characters. And I'm only R10 Norn and Asuran on one char.

And I'm only R5 kurz, and that took forever. I'd love to be R12 kurz, but I think this would be an insult to the people who had to struggle to earn it.

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 05, 2008, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortal Amongst Mere Gods

People would have Ursan, Pain Inverter, Brawling Headbutt, etc., up to effective r10 way too easily.

Easily? It never was a challenge to get the titles, just a long amount of time needed to be spent.

/signed

And make the campaign harder.

Pyra Fade · Aug 05, 2008, 01:51 AM // 01:51

/signed

grind is ftl

although i agree with what Karate Jesus is sayin about ppl bein pissed that actually grinded those titles. but i think what the OP is talkin about is having the skills not tied to titles. meaning getting the titles themselves to display would still require grind, but having greater functionality out of the skills would be based on missions/quests

i like it, because ppl that want to show off huge titles, can grind for it. ppl that want to play, can get to playin imo

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 05, 2008, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Trouble is most people with the skills at max title hate the idea that others can attain it too. They still get theirs - but they don't want others to get it.

Same with the event hats. People with the hats hate the idea that newer players be given a chance to have the hats too, even though it's not like the newer players are going to take their hats >.>

Luminarus · Aug 05, 2008, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Maybe if they included dungeons for the eotn title track, luxon/kurzick quests and ss/lb quests, otherwise too easy for everyone. Also, getting like r5 is pis easy, and the bonus from the skills are usually irrelevant of rank, EG PI Still kills an ele regardless of r1, or r10. Finish Him, same thing, Yes they are better higher ranks, but not to such the extent that you must have r10 to use em effectively.

Except Ursan, where its just so that u get the most damage, and even then its only because Ursan is retarded, and hopefully gone.

Tyla · Aug 05, 2008, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Idk, I think this would piss a lot of people off who had to grind forever to get these titles maxed.

I agree that the skills and titles go against the "anti-grind" mentality of the game, but this sounds too easy. Honestly, I would be R10 everything now on like 4 characters. And I'm only R10 Norn and Asuran on one char.

And I'm only R5 kurz, and that took forever. I'd love to be R12 kurz, but I think this would be an insult to the people who had to struggle to earn it.

I understand what you're saying here, but the GW:EN titles are really nothing compared to max Kurzick, or Luxon. To be quite honest with you, even if I did bother grinding out tons of books to max, I still get the title itself and the same goes for K/L. It will also sort out a few minor kinks in participation of PuGs, although I would still be against PvE skills etc., it would be a vast improvement overall.

Karate Jesus · Aug 05, 2008, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Trouble is most people with the skills at max title hate the idea that others can attain it too. They still get theirs - but they don't want others to get it.

Same with the event hats. People with the hats hate the idea that newer players be given a chance to have the hats too, even though it's not like the newer players are going to take their hats >.>

I don't think it's quite like that.

I think it's hard for players, who have devoted a lot of time and energy into earning something, see another player who only had to do 1/2 the work or less.

And in response to the event masks thing. I think it's ok that you have to be there to get the hat. It kind of commemorates the event for that person. I ended up paying tons of money to get the Victory Tokens for a Grasping Mask at the last second (I was gone during the event). I would be pretty upset if someone was able to walk up to the festival hat maker and just buy the same thing for 10g later.

In the end, it's kind of just unfair.

Gun Pierson · Aug 05, 2008, 02:20 AM // 02:20

/signed

As it would achieve one of my three wishes regarding titles and skills:
1) remove skills linked to title grind, but by completing quests like in prophecies
2) remove titles and emotes from the game
3) remove HoM from the game

On a side note, I have a full hall, I'm at 25 titles and well capable of getting 30. But I refuse to go on with this nonsense and willing to give it all back to Anet.

Kanyatta · Aug 05, 2008, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortal Amongst Mere Gods

This would be a good idea, but I think it's too easy that way. People would have Ursan, Pain Inverter, Brawling Headbutt, etc., up to effective r10 way too easily. It's still a good idea, though. I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate being saved the grind.

/undecided

I'm going with this guy, and holding off on my support or lack thereof.

Marverick · Aug 05, 2008, 02:46 AM // 02:46

How about making another attribute line specifically for PvE skills? More points in that attribute increases the power of PvE skills.

Dark Paladin X · Aug 05, 2008, 02:49 AM // 02:49

/notsigned for a variety of reasons:

1) Doing the missions and quests in Hard Mode would be a total hell (particularly if you are facing destroyers and the charr in EotN, sheezz).
2) The purpose of the PvE skills using the rep system is meant to train your reputation via farming and killing monsters to get to the rank you want. In other words, the more you kill, the stronger your skill gets.
3) Getting to the rank you desire is easily done via books, although like I said, doing missions in HM would be total hell.

Like what Karate Jesus said, it would be unfair for those who put lots of effort to gain the title (like me putting a hell lot of effort in farming the UW with perma-Shadow and later nerfing the spell, which they plan to nerf it even further by making it unmaintainable). As for sunspear/lightbringer titles, just use junjuru FTW.

Gill Halendt · Aug 05, 2008, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

PvE skills are tied to grind

PvE skills are actually tied to titles. You don't have to grind any of the titles to play the game, nor it's mandatory to use any of the PvE skills to do it.

The best effectiveness of a PvE skill is a bonus rewarded for the extra work implied by improving/maxing the title. Even if it's just "grind", is something you have to work for to get the best out of it. Don't mind maxing the title? PvE skills still work fine, even at lower ranks in their respective title tracks.

Standard skills usually work better at higher levels of their attributes. Yet, you don't ever have to use superior runes to use them preperly.

draxynnic · Aug 05, 2008, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

I don't think it's quite like that.

I think it's hard for players, who have devoted a lot of time and energy into earning something, see another player who only had to do 1/2 the work or less.

And in response to the event masks thing. I think it's ok that you have to be there to get the hat. It kind of commemorates the event for that person. I ended up paying tons of money to get the Victory Tokens for a Grasping Mask at the last second (I was gone during the event). I would be pretty upset if someone was able to walk up to the festival hat maker and just buy the same thing for 10g later.

In the end, it's kind of just unfair.

Hat's don't give a mechanical benefit. Tying mechanical benefit to grind was IMO a mistake, and the unfairness to people who've done it the 'hard way' basically boils down to "it wasn't fixed fast enough".

Perhaps a compromise could be to provide some sort of vanity item - maybe a special form of the title - to people who already have the title at max at the time of the update. Announce this far enough in advance so that people who are almost there know to hurry it up and get there beforehand - possibly combined with a few double-points weekends to facilitate this.

upier · Aug 05, 2008, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

How about making another attribute line specifically for PvE skills? More points in that attribute increases the power of PvE skills.

This.
Although I wouldn't add ONE line - I'd add a line for EACH title.

/signed for a change
/not signed for the one desired by the OP

Thizzle · Aug 05, 2008, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Before we all say "It would be too easy", let's take a moment to think about that. Is completing the Eye of The North storyline and primary quests within it hard? No. Is running around outside Olafstead racking up a couple thousand points every time hard? No, but is it time consuming and pointless? Yes. The thing is the reputation titles were never skill > time, but the exact opposite. It's the same with every other reputation title. It's all time > skill. If you can take the time to run the exact same path, area, and kill the all the enemies in the exact order or close every time then what is the point?

This is how I feel. Make the reputation titles either account wide or simply make them more powerful as you progress through the storyline. I don't know about Kurzick and Luxon faction because Alliance Battles are tied into that, but the other 6 can easily be done this way. By making the skills more powerful as you progress this would make me want to actually finish the campaign even though I already have. I'm saying if I play another character because let's face it I'm sick of taking a new guy and go farm norn points in Olafstead because going through the campaign again just to complete a book is too boring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

PvE skills are actually tied to titles. You don't have to grind any of the titles to play the game, nor it's mandatory to use any of the PvE skills to do it.

The best effectiveness of a PvE skill is a bonus rewarded for the extra work implied by improving/maxing the title. Even if it's just "grind", is something you have to work for to get the best out of it. Don't mind maxing the title? PvE skills still work fine, even at lower ranks in their respective title tracks.

Standard skills usually work better at higher levels of their attributes. Yet, you don't ever have to use superior runes to use them preperly.

It's supposed to be about fun not spending hours grinding to get the max rank. Many people do this because it's tied back to the fact that they can't get into groups for elite areas because nobody wants anything, but r8-10 ursan.

Let's get to the point.

/signed.

Axel Zinfandel · Aug 05, 2008, 06:28 AM // 06:28

/signed

Mine as well kill two birds with one stone. I WANT to have more of a reason to play the actual game, but have no reason to due to extreme lack of reward in doing so. I like the gameplay now, but I like the days of Proph. campaign, where once you -hit- level 20, you were almost finished. Nowadays it's like winning the lottery. Once you win (hit level 20, by comparison), why work?