Curse

Shayne Hawke · Jul 12, 2008, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Remove hero limit.

If ANet wanted us to be social and play with other players, then maybe ANet should be social and tell us what they're trying to do with the game more.

Marverick · Jul 12, 2008, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinn

OP, I know you've tried to pre-empt the "if you hate it so much, just play some other single player game" response, but seriously, Guild Wars is primarily about multiplayer, with an optional single player aspect. The single player option was never meant to offer the same benefits and power as partying with other people. Nor should it.

To allow 7 heroes all with PvE skills would utterly kill any reason at all to group with other people in 95% of the game. Maybe that's what you'd like, but it isn't going to happen.

You seem to be under the impression that the benefit of playing with other people should be strictly materialistic.

No, the benefit of playing with other people should be playing with other people. Not because other people can use more powerful skills.

I, most of the time, do HM with guildies. It's much more fun than H/H (or H) because I don't have to micro prot spirit all the time and I can talk with other people while killing stuff. Not to mention good players can make far better decisions than current AI can.

But there are times when no one wants to do Duncan HM, or maybe my guild just finished Kathandrax and no one else needs it. Those times, I still want to be able to get it done without waiting (yes, I spent 13 days waiting for a group to do Duncan HM; if only I had 7 heroes I wouldn't have had to do that. Is this really supposed to be a feature of the game?)

/signed all the way

Miska Bow · Jul 12, 2008, 10:34 PM // 22:34

/signed just for the fact that koss has never draw any genitals on the radar.

Kinn · Jul 12, 2008, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miska Bow

/signed just for the fact that koss has never draw any genitals on the radar.

He does - he just draws them to scale.

You'd need to zoom out.

Solas · Jul 12, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

[QUOTE=Zahr Dalsk]Henchmen cannot be taken into elite areas and their performance is inferior to a good hero build. [/qoute]

Pretty much all of prophicies and Factions can be done in NM with jsut henchmen, and Elona with H/H.
NM isnt hard, HM may require the help of a friend on some missions or areas but the PvE skills make it easier.

Quote:

Overpowered? Compared to a full guild team carrying, say, an Imbagon, a Dslash Warrior, Sabway, and other existing overpowered abilities? I think not.

Yeah but thats Humans working together, not 1 person. and seeing how allowing PvE skills on heros would allows you to run ursan and other builds it just makes the problem more accesible.

Quote:

It's extreme and hardly related. You're suggesting an overpowered game-winner, I'm suggesting a change that will enhance our experience and won't even be as overpowered as Ursan Blessing. Moreover a coordinated guild team is already far more powerful than AI ever will be, so I suppose your opinion is that players shouldn't play with fellow guild members?

I was replying to the way you went about it, as to how it wouldn't effect alot so ye may aswell have it.

Isn't that what your after? By allowing heroes some Guild memebers will go solo, i know it wont be that dramatic but alot mroe will sol othen group.

Just because PvE is a bit imbalanced doesnt mean this should be implemented, 2 wrongs don't amek a right etc.
Spent 95% of my PvE time H/H at least.
And it wasnt needed before and sure as hell isnt needed now,

I see where your coming from and but still

/signed no

Hugh Manatee · Jul 12, 2008, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

I'm sorry, but how is this thread any different than the 50+ page "allow 7 heroes" thread in Riverside? Why feel the need to create a new thread instead of adding onto the fully hashed out arguments in that thread?

This one has a poll in it... at least in this one we can clearly see the popular opinion of what's what without 1 vocal jackass claiming to speak for a non-existant majority.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinn

To allow 7 heroes all with PvE skills would utterly kill any reason at all to group with other people in 95% of the game.

pugs killed any reason to group with other(non-guildie/ally) people.

Fact is until they add some ascended henchmen or 7 heroes to the deep/urgoz, DoA, FoW/UW outposts I don't believe anet is giving us the best product they could.

Grand Theft Ecto · Jul 12, 2008, 11:59 PM // 23:59

You can complete everything in this game, bar a couple of elite areas, with the current H/H. Upping the limit would only thin out the PuG crowd, which isn't in the best interest of anyone.

Wouldn't mind allowing a selection of pve skills to heroes though.

Kinn · Jul 13, 2008, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

pugs killed any reason to group with other(non-guildie/ally) people.

Fact is until they add some ascended henchmen or 7 heroes to the deep/urgoz, DoA, FoW/UW outposts I don't believe anet is giving us the best product they could.

No, they're giving you a product where it is optimal to play with other people if you want to use the best team builds and skillsets. That is clearly their design for the game and I respect them for sticking to it.

Zahr Dalsk · Jul 13, 2008, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinn

No, they're giving you a product where it is optimal to play with other people if you want to use the best team builds and skillsets. That is clearly their design for the game and I respect them for sticking to it.

It is not optimal to play with PUGs because they don't use the best team builds and skillsets and I doubt they ever will.

Playing with fellow guild members is optimal, and removing the hero limit won't suddenly make people stop playing with guild members.

People play with each other for the social aspect, so even if heroes were better than a guild team (which they won't be with current AI) players would still go with guild members and friends. Regardless of statistical advantage/disadvantage. But a PUG does not present a good social aspect, and thus no matter how you adjust gameplay ability for or against PUGs or H/H, PUG players will themselves force others away, because they are not pleasant people to socialize with.

Has ArenaNet considered removing the cap for a week to see how everyone likes it and just how much 'imbalance' it would actually cause?

bhavv · Jul 13, 2008, 01:07 AM // 01:07

If the game is easy enough to H/H, which it is in 90%, then why do we need PVE skills, ursan blessing and consumables?

No one is askin for 7 heroes to make the game easier, we are asking for them to make the game more FUN, just as people find it fun to play with UB.

The vast majority of players want to be able to use 7 heroes, and this would also bring many many players back into the game.

When you speak against 7 heroes, you are speaking for a small minority of players. Anet clearly do not know what is good for this game or what their players would enjoy and ruin it with thier stupid changes like PVE skills and consumables.

Sorry Anet, but your design vision for GW is a failure. Wake up and start listening to your players.

-Lotus- · Jul 13, 2008, 01:16 AM // 01:16

/signed

my entire summer so far ive played with 2 good players (including guildies). its sad really

vandevere · Jul 13, 2008, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

If the game is easy enough to H/H, which it is in 90%, then why do we need PVE skills, ursan blessing and consumables?

No one is askin for 7 heroes to make the game easier, we are asking for them to make the game more FUN, just as people find it fun to play with UB.

The vast majority of players want to be able to use 7 heroes, and this would also bring many many players back into the game.

When you speak against 7 heroes, you are speaking for a small minority of players. Anet clearly do not know what is good for this game or what their players would enjoy and ruin it with thier stupid changes like PVE skills and consumables.

Sorry Anet, but your design vision for GW is a failure. Wake up and start listening to your players.

I'm a casual player. I don't PVP very much, I just like to run around in PVE and kill Monsters. Maybe I'll grind a little, maybe I'll farm a little too. But everything I do I do to have FUN.

I'm not a Leet-type person, I don't have much in the way of Titles either. I just love the fact that after a hard day of dealing with jack-asses and idiots at work, that I can log-in to GW and take my frustrations out on poor hapless monsters...

Because my hours very often are odd, I don't often come on when many other players are around. It's easiest, therefore, for me to use my Heroes and Henchies...

Besides, as someone already pointed out, a Hero won't rage at you, and they won't leave on you, right in the middle of a tough Mission either...

bhavv · Jul 13, 2008, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Everyone in favor of this should start bombarding Anet with complaints that they want 7 heroes in the game. I will start doing this myself, if anyone else feels the desire to want 7 heroes, please join in with E mail spams to Anet support.

They cannot think that 7 heroes is any more imbalanced then ursan way and PVE skills, but they do.

Official QQing by e mails to A net start now. Feel free to join in, and remember,

The more people that join in, the more chance we will have of making Anet realise their mistake and getting 7 heroes.

Zahr Dalsk · Jul 13, 2008, 01:45 AM // 01:45

I'll do that once I figure out what address to send it to

I'll also try to think of a sort of generic template and the points to outline.

Showtime · Jul 13, 2008, 02:01 AM // 02:01

/signed for all hero teams.

I already use extra heros by going to places with guildy and them leaving their heros with me. Thats what we could do in the meantime... share heros. Doesn't take long.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 13, 2008, 02:45 AM // 02:45

I agree to raising the Hero limit, but I still say 7 heroes is over powered.

I vote for 5 heroes (7 in Urgoz/Deep).

With 5 heroes, most areas in Prophecies, the original game, can have full parties, and it still leaves a little challenge for the 8 man areas. Not to mention that Elite areas would go from Ursans only to heroes only.

Do 7 heroes and you 100% separate those who pug (and must or be stuck with henchmen) and those who will just use heroes.

I also say that Prophecies and Factions should get a few heroes of their own, like how they had Olias and Zenmai (although you needed Nightfall as well).

To make it fair, remove some "side heroes" from Nightfall, and put them in Factions and Prophecies. Ending up making the total hero amount 30, 3 of each profession.

Can easily be done by adding 1 Assassin, 1 Ritualist, 1 Mesmer, 1 Paragon, and 1 Dervish. (And making Devona, Mhenlo, Eve, Aiden, and Cynn heroes would be good as well, removing them from henchmen. To keep it 3 per profession, change Olias', Jin's, Sousuke's, and Goren's profession. Seeing how they are side heroes, they don't have a big impact on the storyline, just a couple quests and dialogues, but their personalities will still be the same).

Having Devona and co. put in Prophecies, then 1 of the other professions (sin, etc) put in factions, the amount of heroes would be more equaled out with the 3 per profession concept.

bhavv · Jul 13, 2008, 04:00 AM // 04:00

7 heroes is still weaker then 7 humans so stop using the false argument that it would be too overpowered.

Just e mail support and they say 'post it on a community forum', but then keep on updating your ticket everyday. If they close it, just open a new ticket and keep going.

They might get the message eventually.

Also ask people ingame that are in favor of 7 heroes to email support and not give up with bombarding support.

Clarissa F · Jul 13, 2008, 05:47 AM // 05:47

@bhavv:what server on AoC? Shadowblade here.

OT: I think the team thing is limited to PvP and Guilds, now. The rest died with the hero option and the general failing of pugs. With Factions and NF it was just made too easy to get to level 20 without learning decent skills for playing the game, and pugs started failing more and more. If you are going to have so many heroes, let people solo with 5-7 of them.

Please. I'm tired of Mhenlo looking up Livia's dress instead of healing.

Zahr Dalsk · Jul 13, 2008, 08:29 AM // 08:29

I played on Scourge PvP, heh, dead server >.>

BlackSephir · Jul 13, 2008, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

7 heroes is over powered.

Excellent, care to elaborate and explain how 7 heroes without formations and pve skills are overpowered when compared to normal team consisting of 8 people with pve skills?