Curse

zwei2stein · Aug 08, 2008, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Whether it is or is not problem is arguable, but fact is that three years into game, most of supposedly valuable items are worthless inventory clutter. Not only market suffers as people can't sell their loot to other players, also buyers have hard time locating certain items as their sale to other players is no longer profitable enough to keep trading them.

As players no longer need items to equip themselves because they have equipment they need, there needs to be secondary use for such items, use which even fully equipped, rich players will deem worthy, and which provide steady goal for everyone with worthy bonuses

By borrowing "Horadric cube" item recycler from Diablo and Guildwars commendations/collector feature, I suggest this as way to get rid of excess items, revitalize trade and add new long term goal while helping people achieve grind titles a little bit easier to guild wars all in one go.

1) We convert excess items to stackable, tradeable resource, we introduce new type on NPC: [rare item merchant]. This NPC will trade tokens for gold and green weapons, "Golden Token" and "Green Token"
He will have companion NPC which will be [collector], offering green token for three gold item tokens.

This gives us currency in form of "Green Token" which is used in next step:

2) To give players actuall reason to turn their items to convert their items, we will give them collectors:

A) Gold token [collector] - high-potency alcohol, sweets and party items, lockpicks. Other ~1k worth items. This will be the only gold token collector.
B) Green token [collector] - 1 green token for more worthy items, like zaishen-grade keys,
C) [collectors] for more green tokens:
3, 5 tokens - gradually better low end rewards.
25 tokens - set of new weapon skins. (gold inscribables)
75 tokens - minipet(s)
250 tokens - new armor set (= 1250 green tokens for full set).

This gives us wide range of prestige items of all grades: from relatively cheap new weapon skin, through moderatelly priced minipets to armor set which is gargantuan (3750 gold items of 1250 green items removed from game for one set, if price of gold token would be 1k, it would be 3.75 million armor).

pluses:
* adds value to most drops
* encourages player trading, encourages gold flow from rich to poor.
* is item sink that is voluntary
* would cleanse market of excess items upon introduction.
* is worthy even for fully pimped players.
cons:
you tell me.

matthijs123 · Aug 08, 2008, 12:07 PM // 12:07

-I don't really get the 1250 green tokens for a new armor set... uuuh you said before 1 green totem was 1 Z-Key.... why not trade the 1250 green tokens for 1250 Z-Keys...

So the 1250 for a new armor set is silly.
-And uhm 1 gold token for alcohol/party/sweet/lockpicks? People will be only buying lockpicks... since lockpicks are around 1,2k and the best alcohol/sweet/party = 300-500g.
-75 tokens for minipet(s), should be gold tokens then

- Why do you want such high prices for *new* armor sets? millions for 1 armor set which can be bought for 100k up to 800k for obsidian armor.

I might be totally not understand, anyway

This is what I thought about it.

zwei2stein · Aug 08, 2008, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthijs123

-I don't really get the 1250 green tokens for a new armor set... uuuh you said before 1 green totem was 1 Z-Key.... why not trade the 1250 green tokens for 1250 Z-Keys...

So the 1250 for a new armor set is silly.
-And uhm 1 gold token for alcohol/party/sweet/lockpicks? People will be only buying lockpicks... since lockpicks are around 1,2k and the best alcohol/sweet/party = 300-500g.
-75 tokens for minipet(s), should be gold tokens then

- Why do you want such high prices for *new* armor sets? millions for 1 armor set which can be bought for 100k up to 800k for obsidian armor.

I might be totally not understand, anyway

This is what I thought about it.

Rewards are not "set in stone" ideas - more of examples. It can be ballanced.

And high-priced armor is must, because it it would cost less than FoW it will likely be ignored.

Pesi · Aug 08, 2008, 01:09 PM // 13:09

zaishen key is a pvp reward is it not?
and green items are uniqe items found in pve is it not?

where is the connection between these two items? i cant see any.

you honestly think an idea like this will be added to a game that is more than three years old?

/notsigned to me it doesnt make enough sense.

MithranArkanere · Aug 08, 2008, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Although items sinks sounds good.

I also thing that it would work better to force people to customize items to be able to equip them, like with armor.

That way, item used, item out of market, and new room is made for new items.

birdfoot · Aug 08, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

@ OP:

I think I get the general idea of what you're trying to sell here and I think it's got potential. However, the items that could be redeemed by such tokens are what I can't make up my mind about (or rather, I couldn't quite agree with what you proposed).

How about if the tokens could only be used to exchange for a limited range of items which are consumables in nature and the token concept applies only to green stuff? Basically, the rules are as follows:

1) Player has an unwanted green item
2) Player interacts with "Used Green" NPC to exchange 1x green item for 1x token
3) Player then takes token(s) and interacts with "Token" NPC(s) with the following options for exchange:
- 1x token for 1x Level 1 Drunk/Sweet/Party item
- 3x token for 1x Level 3 Drunk/Sweet/Party item or Sup ID Kit
- 5x token for 1x Sup Salvage Kit or UW/FoW Scrolls, etc

Basically, what I'm trying to come up with here is an alternative use for unwanted greens (rather than merchanting it for a meagre amount of gold) to exchange for something that is at least useful without causing too much impact to item prices.

*Note: This is still based on OP's idea.

Ozric · Aug 08, 2008, 06:22 PM // 18:22

In my mind, the idea of a 'sink', be it gold, item or what have you, introduces the possibility of loss.

This idea of yours is more a way to get the most out of our limited storage by trading in items that you don't want into a stackable commodity than it is a sink, but we already have that,.. in gold.

So in fact it is only a proposal to introduce more collectors into the game, for whatever your heart desires, be it a mini-pet, armor, or whatever.

You're still going to end up with a glut in the end though, you'll only get to where you want to be, items or title-wise, more quickly and conveniently, but you will still have done nothing to address item glut, you'll only end up trading whatever your storage looks like now with items you'd rather have, which will be made even less valuable, and tabs of these tokens, which will spurn you to come back to Sardelac with an idea to remove the stack limit.

Brilliant.

zwei2stein · Aug 10, 2008, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pesi

zaishen key is a pvp reward is it not?
and green items are uniqe items found in pve is it not?

where is the connection between these two items? i cant see any.

Zaishen key is pvp reward. Zaishen chest drops PvE items like tomes or title fodder.

where is the connection between these two items? i cant see any.

---

Connection is "desirable reward". Zkey is only PvP reward because it is supposed to give PvP players something they can sell for gold to pvers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Although items sinks sounds good.

I also thing that it would work better to force people to customize items to be able to equip them, like with armor.

That way, item used, item out of market, and new room is made for new items.

Good idea, but it still leaves in huge amount of items around that are not used, but instead just stored on mules and which clutter market.

MithranArkanere · Aug 10, 2008, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Good idea, but it still leaves in huge amount of items around that are not used, but instead just stored on mules and which clutter market.

For those what we need is a Xunlai Market. Make it easir to sell the stuff, and they will not store it so much.

tmakinen · Aug 10, 2008, 10:30 AM // 10:30

In my opinion the proper action to revitalize a stalled market is to increase sinks, not to throttle sources which is what ANet defaults to, so although the exact implementation can be discussed further, I'm going to

/sign

this on principle.

-Makai- · Aug 10, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Whether it is or is not problem is arguable, but fact is that three years into game, most of supposedly valuable items are worthless inventory clutter. Not only market suffers as people can't sell their loot to other players, also buyers have hard time locating certain items as their sale to other players is no longer profitable enough to keep trading them.

As players no longer need items to equip themselves because they have equipment they need, there needs to be secondary use for such items, use which even fully equipped, rich players will deem worthy, and which provide steady goal for everyone with worthy bonuses

By borrowing "Horadric cube" item recycler from Diablo and Guildwars commendations/collector feature, I suggest this as way to get rid of excess items, revitalize trade and add new long term goal while helping people achieve grind titles a little bit easier to guild wars all in one go.

1) We convert excess items to stackable, tradeable resource, we introduce new type on NPC: [rare item merchant]. This NPC will trade tokens for gold and green weapons, "Golden Token" and "Green Token"
He will have companion NPC which will be [collector], offering green token for three gold item tokens.

This gives us currency in form of "Green Token" which is used in next step:

2) To give players actuall reason to turn their items to convert their items, we will give them collectors:

A) Gold token [collector] - high-potency alcohol, sweets and party items, lockpicks. Other ~1k worth items. This will be the only gold token collector.
B) Green token [collector] - 1 green token for more worthy items, like zaishen-grade keys,
C) [collectors] for more green tokens:
3, 5 tokens - gradually better low end rewards.
25 tokens - set of new weapon skins. (gold inscribables)
75 tokens - minipet(s)
250 tokens - new armor set (= 1250 green tokens for full set).

This gives us wide range of prestige items of all grades: from relatively cheap new weapon skin, through moderatelly priced minipets to armor set which is gargantuan (3750 gold items of 1250 green items removed from game for one set, if price of gold token would be 1k, it would be 3.75 million armor).

pluses:
* adds value to most drops
* encourages player trading, encourages gold flow from rich to poor.
* is item sink that is voluntary
* would cleanse market of excess items upon introduction.
* is worthy even for fully pimped players.
cons:
you tell me.

Wow, this is definitely one of the better suggestions I've seen. Kudos.

/signed

Not only would this provide a potent item sink, it would give older players a new long term goal. I'm curious about what you mean by "gradually better low end rewards". Do you mean stuff like Salvage/ID Kits/Lockpicks?

Also, new armor is always appreciated, especially with non-core professions.

zwei2stein · Aug 11, 2008, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sante_Kelm

Not only would this provide a potent item sink, it would give older players a new long term goal. I'm curious about what you mean by "gradually better low end rewards". Do you mean stuff like Salvage/ID Kits/Lockpicks?

Yes, that kind of stuff.

There is huge potential for "new cool stuff" in that range too. stuff worth ~10k in tokens should really be something - i.e. 25 charge perfect salvage kit.

Shayne Hawke · Aug 11, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32

So, it's like adding another form of currency?

Sounds pretty good, but I'd suggest more of a gap between Green and Gold status items, and make sure that greens from starter islands can't be thrown into the mix.

Unfortunately, with all new suggestions, I'd be skeptical with how much new stuff would be potentially added through something like this.

Sigma Onkoron · Aug 11, 2008, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Srsly guys... Srsly to me another gold sink in an already bad economy. (rofl sounds like real life) But if you want to spend your money. Z keys - Obby Armor - Mini's. There are plenty of ways to spend all your cash.

/notsigned (not another sink pl0xors)

HawkofStorms · Aug 11, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Sell stuff to the merchant.

Although it hurts to sell that weapon that used to be worth 100k+ for 452g, you already have a very easy way to get rid of items. I know it hurts, but there is NO reason to keep an item you aren't using and can't sell.

crazybanshee · Aug 11, 2008, 10:30 PM // 22:30

/agree with selling to merchant. Plus, maybe I misunderstand but you would get the same green token for trading in a non-max green (they're out there, I've gotten them) as you would, say, for a spear of the hierophant or something? Nonsensical. There's already a sink for junk weapons. Merchants. Guildies. Heroes. And, if all else fails, the trash bin.

zwei2stein · Aug 13, 2008, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazybanshee

/agree with selling to merchant. Plus, maybe I misunderstand but you would get the same green token for trading in a non-max green (they're out there, I've gotten them) as you would, say, for a spear of the hierophant or something? Nonsensical.

Well, nonmax greens (and non-maxdamage/armor/energy golds) don't necessarily have to "qualify" for this. In fact that would be stupid.

Idea is to give alternative to merching for decent-ish stuff in economy where demand for it died out.

Elder III · Aug 13, 2008, 11:48 AM // 11:48

One of the better ideas I have seen - I'm all for anything that will help bring the market for items back to where it was a year or two ago. What you said about items not being valuable enough to make them worth selling to other players is true, I quit power trading because of that...

Overall a good idea, probably will never happen, but kudos for offering a legitimate (with a little work) solution to a problem.

FlamingMetroid · Aug 13, 2008, 05:51 PM // 17:51

sounds like a good idea, but it may have just been me seeing "new armor set" and hoping for non-spiky assassin armor

R.Shayne · Aug 13, 2008, 08:56 PM // 20:56

/notsigned, I see this suggestion as a short term fix, I want a long term fix.

I think we need someway to get items out of the market.

I say give players a reason to customize stuff because the current system isn't working, especially in caster area. How about customize for the account, not the character.

Have equipment degrade over time, not by much, something like 10% max. The equipment is still useful but a new one would be better.