Curse

t00115577 · Aug 20, 2008, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Please grow up and get better at the game.

LoD = 5e for 70x 8 healing = 560 heal

WoH = 5e for 130 healing, +100 if the condition is met, which henchmen AI is poor at meeting.

LoD outclasses WoH for efficiency on energy cost to amount healed by a great margin, this is why the skill becasme so popular and had to be nerfed for PVP.

WoH is a great elite for human monks, but NOT for the AI. Neither is ZB, but people that dont H/H dont realise this.

The AI is not the same as a human Monk. A human monk is better off with an elite like woh because they can use it properly and prioritise casting it on party members below 50% health. The AI is better off with whatever spells are better for spamming without a condition. LoD and the new Healing Burst would work far better on the AI as opposed to WoH because they are just as effective when used on party members with over 50% health.

Whats the point in healing 5-6 of your alies for 70 health when they at full health? And they dont get a divine favor heal so its just a raw 70, Woh does 122 + divine favor + 94. Faster cast, faster recharge and only your 'tank' (generic term i know) should be taking big dmg.

Faer · Aug 20, 2008, 01:19 PM // 13:19

A note on post deletions:

This thread is not about full hero parties. Stop posting about them. We have several disgustingly inflated threads about that subject already, so why don't you go post in some of those? Please stay on topic.

Turbobusa · Aug 20, 2008, 01:22 PM // 13:22

No thanks, i highly prefer WoH.
Especially since I often go with a rt or n/rt with Kaolai, or life, which clears and party wide pressure.

You can even just have one heroe go /rt and take kaolai at 8-9 spec, casting it when needed. You can't really do this with WoH since its lmore of a dedicated healer thing.

Numa Pompilius · Aug 20, 2008, 01:24 PM // 13:24

To stay on topic: I prefer WoH over LoD on henches.

/unsigned

bhavv · Aug 20, 2008, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

No thanks, i highly prefer WoH.
Especially since I often go with a rt or n/rt with Kaolai, or life, which clears and party wide pressure.

You can even just have one heroe go /rt and take kaolai at 8-9 spec, casting it when needed. You can't really do this with WoH since its lmore of a dedicated healer thing.

You can also have a /Rt hero take Spirit Light which has an unconditional heal just as good as WoH. I already use both of them thanks. What you can do with heroes doesnt invalidate other skills that henchmen have.

Mhenlo in EOTN worked brilliantly before with LoD, the only thing that is different about it now is that it has lost its condition to only work on allies below 75% health and heals a little less, but it is still far more efficient on the AI then WoH is.

I'm wondering if most people here even did H/H the dungeons in EOTN before when Mhenlo had LoD and again after. I most certainly did complete around 66% of them before and after, and it was a lot better when he had LoD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by t00115577

Whats the point in healing 5-6 of your alies for 70 health when they at full health? And they dont get a divine favor heal so its just a raw 70, Woh does 122 + divine favor + 94. Faster cast, faster recharge and only your 'tank' (generic term i know) should be taking big dmg.

Hardly anywhere in PVE will have just one party member taking damage, party wide degen and damage exist in all areas of the game, with EOTN having a lot more then the other campaigns.

Also, I wonder if people realise that this suggestion is primarilly for EOTN, not the standard campaigns. You need to play through EOTN dungeons with and without LOD to realise its significance in the game. The developers made the correct choice when they initially gave Mhenlo LoD, changing him to WoH was a mistake that should never have happened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Hench are not supposed to have GOOD skill bars though.

Henchmen in EOTN actually have brilliant skillbars, even better then most players in the game, so who says they arent meant to have good skill bars?

And your Legendary Vanquisher and Gaurdian dont matter much when EOTN is the game we are supposed to be talking about. They are easy titles to get with H/H anyway, Dungeons in EOTN with H/H are much more harder.

Bauholz Kerbe · Aug 20, 2008, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Hench are not supposed to have GOOD skill bars though. They are supposed to have decent ones. With very few exceptions, the hench all have decent skill bars. They can get the job done, although maybe not as fast as a hero or player would.

If you want the hench to have GOOD skill bars, then take heroes and other humans. Hench are meant to be a back-up for when you can't find what you need.

I wouldn't care if they did change Mhenlo back to LoD, but...

/unsigned

because I don't think it is NEEDED.

i agree i don't think its needed and besides heros and henchman don't take the 50% bonus into affect watch your hero sometime.

ajc2123 · Aug 20, 2008, 03:11 PM // 15:11

No, hes fine the way he is now. Bring a hero if you so desperatly need LoD. If He gets this skill, then they need to reqork Alesia, Sister tai (infact all the factions monks. Rit henchies do abetter job at healing then them.) So no, just keep WoH.

MagmaRed · Aug 20, 2008, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Henchmen in EOTN actually have brilliant skillbars, even better then most players in the game, so who says they arent meant to have good skill bars?

And your Legendary Vanquisher and Gaurdian dont matter much when EOTN is the game we are supposed to be talking about. They are easy titles to get with H/H anyway, Dungeons in EOTN with H/H are much more harder.

If they have such brilliant skill bars, why do you want to change Mhenlo's?

I mentioned my 2 Legendary titles to show I have done Hard Mode stuff with hero+hench. I also noted that titles mean little. However, if you want more proof from me, I also have all 4 reputation titles from Eye of the North, and Legendary Master of the North maxed out. I completed all dungeons with hero+hench except HoS, Slaver's, and Frostmaw (although I could have done that one if I had chosen to).

I don't see you arguing why this should be implemented. I see you arguing that you know better than everyone else, and your idea should be implemented because you are smarter than us.

As I said, hench should have decent skill bars, not good ones. Unless they are BAD skill bars, there is no need to change them. There are only a couple of hench I feel have bad skill bars, but that is my opinion, and I know others don't agree with me.

Turbobusa · Aug 20, 2008, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

You can also have a /Rt hero take Spirit Light which has an unconditional heal just as good as WoH. I already use both of them thanks. What you can do with heroes doesnt invalidate other skills that henchmen have.

A big heal is going to be used MUCH more often than a party wide heal. Meaning the hero will spend more time healing than killing, and that's not his job. But he will because that's what they understand they have to do (silly them).
With the party wide heal they'll cast and drop it only when needed, spending the rest of the time killing stuff.

Ho and I did use him before the WoH change. Now I can bring him and a n/rt only in HM dungeons.
I couldn't before. Same builds.

HackingHippie712 · Aug 20, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Please grow up and get better at the game.

LoD = 5e for 70x 8 healing = 560 heal

WoH = 5e for 130 healing, +100 if the condition is met, which henchmen AI is poor at meeting.

LoD outclasses WoH for efficiency on energy cost to amount healed by a great margin, this is why the skill becasme so popular and had to be nerfed for PVP.

WoH is a great elite for human monks, but NOT for the AI. Neither is ZB, but people that dont H/H dont realise this.

The AI is not the same as a human Monk. A human monk is better off with an elite like woh because they can use it properly and prioritise casting it on party members below 50% health. The AI is better off with whatever spells are better for spamming without a condition. LoD and the new Healing Burst would work far better on the AI as opposed to WoH because they are just as effective when used on party members with over 50% health.

quit being bad plz

LoD is bad you can hardly say its a 560 hp heal in contrast to woh's 100 something because it doesnt heal one person for 560, if you want party heals slap the 2 divine favor heals on an unyeilding aura monk

TheodenKing · Aug 20, 2008, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Please grow up and get better at the game.
LoD = 5e for 70x 8 healing = 560 heal
WoH = 5e for 130 healing, +100 if the condition is met, which henchmen AI is poor at meeting.

You conveniently left out the part about LoD's horrid recharge time compared to WoH, and the AI's ability to target allies faster than a human can, making targeted heals an area of expertise for AI.

When you look beyond the math, you'll see that LoD doesn't usually heal for 560, because not everyone in the party usually needs the heal. Also, targeted heals gain Divine bonus.

After stating all that... maybe you should stop throwing stones, living in that gorgeous glass house of yours.

Smurf Minions · Aug 20, 2008, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

No one that is good at this game will use monk heroes when H/H'ing.

Oh no, noone uses sab/discordway in this game...

Serious, do you even know where you are talking about? yes mhenlo needs LoD, but you can play without out, just use them as an 'extra', like you can hold it for 80% with your heroes, and the heroes fill up that last 20% so you won't die. You won't be doing anything very hard with henchman anyway.

anyway, i think lod should be better in sync with the other hench, or change ZB into rc, one of those is fine with me.

Da Rk Bl Ad E · Aug 20, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

I don't think this thread was meant to be people lecturing Bhavv on how to use heros, he was talking about a henchman yet you all tell him about heros and how you have all beat pve. srsly lrn2read moar. I don't agree with some of the things bhavv has said but still..this thread is about mhenlo either agree or disagree, don't start preaching about unyielding aura and heros.

Snow Bunny · Aug 20, 2008, 05:07 PM // 17:07

bhavvvvvvvv

I've missed you

Anyway, WoH is still better then LoD, unfortunately.

Arkantos · Aug 20, 2008, 05:20 PM // 17:20

I'd rather have a good, spammable single target heal than a mediocre party heal.

WoH ownzzzzzz.

Targren · Aug 20, 2008, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smurf Minions

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhaav

No one that is good at this game will use monk heroes when H/H'ing.

Oh no, noone uses sab/discordway in this game...

Just a point... people playing Sabway AREN'T using monk heroes...

t00115577 · Aug 20, 2008, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Well then Bhavv, looks like im not the one that needs to get better at the game ^^ seems your the only one who thinks LoD is better than WoH.

Marverick · Aug 20, 2008, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Put another healer henchmen in for EotN and give him LoD instead of WoH.

In some areas, one is better; in other areas, the other is better.

There is no "one elite" that completely dominates every other.

sterbenx2 · Aug 20, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

better better best, w/e. Both are good and useful. Depends on the situation. As the OP said, LoD is BETTER for places like the burning forest. .never been there? go try it.

But, people who say skill "A" is BETTER than skill "B" because the numbers add up higher are very nub. "A" might have better numbers than "B" but "A" is ONLY better when you or the AI are using it correctly. Understand? probably not.

The whole thing is simple. Most of EoTN has a lot of high and party wide DMG output and I've noticed that WoH and ZB do NOT syn well together on henchies so why not give Mehnlo LoD again.

/signed. If only to spite nubs. 1+1+1+1=4.. it PWNZ!!!!!!!1!! <-lol

Winterclaw · Aug 20, 2008, 05:49 PM // 17:49

If you want LoD or a partywide heal, bring it on one of your heroes.

I prefer WoH to LoD on mhenlo. Even if hero AI isn't always the best, I'd rather have a spammable skill that could save someone in the party than have a skill that could give everyone a little healing.