Curse

Skyy High · Aug 20, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

You beat the great destroyer on first try without researching the mission and getting a suitable build?
Why do I think you're not really telling the truth here? Or were you accompanied by guildies who had done the mission before and were packing suitable builds?

Believe it. All of the endgame bosses are pathetically easy. The only one that really requires you to have beforehand knowledge to make it easy is shiro, because knowing what his attacks do is vital. Also, it really helps to have wild blow with you, which you wouldn't know to bring the first time through. Otherwise, anyone with a clue about the game can tromp any of the endgame bosses on the first try, and definitely on the second.

Age · Aug 20, 2008, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Believe it. All of the endgame bosses are pathetically easy. The only one that really requires you to have beforehand knowledge to make it easy is shiro, because knowing what his attacks do is vital. Also, it really helps to have wild blow with you, which you wouldn't know to bring the first time through. Otherwise, anyone with a clue about the game can tromp any of the endgame bosses on the first try, and definitely on the second.

I never did look on the wiki about that mission and never used celestial skills either a good riposte build can take down Shiro easy and I did this more than once.That includes all char. I put through that mission.

BadgerznPie · Aug 22, 2008, 02:03 AM // 02:03

I agree. Let's go ahead and boost his HP level to over 9000 and and two skills, Ima Chargin' Mah Lazor, and Ima Firin' Mah Lazor, which deal at least 100 damage to adjacent foes.

JupiterStarWarrior · Aug 22, 2008, 02:12 AM // 02:12

9000 HP?!

Oh, no. I got a vision of "IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA NNNDD!!!!" going in my head. -_-;

draxynnic · Aug 22, 2008, 02:40 AM // 02:40

I think that's the idea. There are at least three tropes being invoked in BadgerznPie's post, depending on whether you count Chargin' and Firin' as two sides of the same trope or seperate tropes.

Clarissa F · Aug 22, 2008, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Ummm...every time some a$$hat uses the "DL;DU" argument, God kills a kitten. Which makes this on the way to a kitten-o-caust.

I say anything that gives a little life to the game helps. Just remember: unless they buff it to a ridiculous amount, someone will find a way around it. Shiro used to be a pain in the ass. Now people laugh if you took over 30 seconds on him. The Lich used to cause an overload on the word filter. Now he's a joke.

On the other side, you could always be doing Mallyx pre-pve skills.

Sweet Mystery · Aug 22, 2008, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel Kimura

Lol. Puff the Magic Dragon and his cousin Buff the Great Destroyer!!
^^

The best thing in this thread....

chris1234565 · Aug 22, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

i agree with this since your not doin it yourself but think about it if you buff destroyer you will need to buff shiro in factions since imperial sanctum is easy ran to

Sage Tylos · Aug 23, 2008, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

We may be great heroes, but these villains just don't live up to their lore standards.

I do have one thing to point out there. In the case of TDG, his ‘true name’ was never read from the Tome of the Rubicon. This event, according to lore, would’ve restored TDG to its full power. Since that didn’t happen (players see to that in Sorrow’s Furnace) The Great Destroyer does not actually have its full powers when we fight it at the end of EotN. Though I think he should be harder despite this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JupiterStarWarrior

Also, again, people that say that the game is too easy, just remember that you're not the average player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

If it's too easy, then go to HM. I think the difficulty level is fine the way it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

The issue with "go to HM" is that HM is still too easy.

These three comments show a large part of the problem. Some of us are hardcore gamers and some of us are not. Some people have stated that they feel TDG (and other bosses) is hard enough already. Some of us want him (and the others) harder. Those who wanted it harder were given HM. But sometimes HM isn’t really any harder than NM. ATFH is a good example. So the non-boss destroyers are lvl 30 instead of 28? Not really that big a deal. The fact that enemies have an inherent 40%-50% movement speed buff doesn’t make much difference since most of the enemies are Destroyers of Lives which are stationary anyway. Great Destroyer doesn’t even get a level buff on HM (still level 31), nor new skills, even though HM often puts a new skill on enemies’ bars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Personally, I don't care about their difficulty in normal mode. Hard mode however, all of the end game bosses should get buffed, so they're actually hard.

That leads to this, which is still one of my favorite suggestions. Hard Mode should live up to its name. Give us a kick ass TDG to play with on HM, but leave him the way he is on NM for the more casual gamers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Well, if all we want is an enchantment removal, then why not add a Destroyer of Thoughts to the random "sidekick" destroyers that pop up. Increase the chance of runners forcing a /resign on the team.

Although it won't really reduce the amount of runners, it won't kill teams, and it won't be an absolute. For NM add the mesmer destroyer into the randomness, for HM add a enchant removal skill to the Great Destroyer.

Using the Mesmer destroyer would work, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I still want the combination of these two skills to not autokill him in a few seconds: [savage shot][pain inverter]

Pain Inverter damage caps at 80, so to exceed that he needs to damage multiple players or inflict damage multiple times. Putting him under Pain Inverter and then spamming interrupts on him will kill him quickly only if his counter attack to interrupts damages a full party. So that, at least, takes more than one character.

Pain Inverter really is a godly skill though. It’s about as effective as any other skill against normal enemies, but against high end bosses it’s just uber. I should know after testing it on Frostmaw the Kinslayer. She popped up, and our team’s Warrior player, and Warrior hero, plus all three Norn Warriors, plus all 10 of our MM’s minions ran up to her and started attacking. Well Frostmaw used “Wurm Bile” on one of the minions and I saw it so I hit Pain Inverter, knowing it would be crazy. 80 damage per second times 15 targets = 1200 damage per second to Frostmaw. Watching her HP bar drop like a rock was hilarious and disheartening at the same time.

Something needs to be done about Pain Inverter’s power vs. bosses IMO, but I can’t think of a good fix off the top of my head.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

One thing that makes me glad that they're H/Hable at the moment is relative convenience at getting to the endgame after you've beaten it once or twice. I tend to stockpile things like amulets of the mists and equivalents if I can't think of something to pick up immediately, so I can go back later and get them. For Factions and Nightfall, endgame armour is also a consideration - if you don't have, or forget to bring, the materials for the endgame armour, you'll have to run the final mission all over again. It's irritating enough when you can H/H it, but I'd rather not be looking for a PUG with a 40% failure rate just to acquire a reward I've already earned. (Especially given that given my timezone there may not be people to form a PUG with in the first place.)

This, however, is more of a gripe about the requirement of "re-earning" endgame areas - if there was a way to acquire the various endgame rewards, unlocked after winning the final mission, that didn't require completing the endgame mission all over again, then I'd be more inclined to support a push to make that endgame harder. Possibly through putting an NPC in Kaineng that can transfer people to the balcony where they could reenter the Divine Path, an NPC in the Domain of Anguish outpost that will port you to the Throne of Secrets, placing of the Deldrimnor Chests in Battledepths if all characters in the party had completed Time for Heroes, and possibly accessing the Prophecies endgame through the Vision of Glint.

Certainly, the thought strikes me that doing this for anything equivalent introduced in GW2 may at least slow down the appearance of endboss farmers - one wonders how many of them simply started as ways to make sure they can get back in without much hassle until realizing they could profit from it...

Well, my goal was to make the boss harder for the sake of being harder, not for the sake of discouraging running. But you do make a good point. Also, if the boss(es) get harder, getting back into the end game area(s) would get harder. As you said, it would be irritating to not have easy access to a reward you’ve already earned. Thus I would say /Signed to the idea of having some NPC ticket back into endgame area once you’ve earned it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

The entire concept of having skills which limit damage to a % of health (e.g. Protective Spirit) and make player untargetable (e.g. Spell Breaker or Shadow Form) is flawed and invite abuse, but the real solution isn't to have bosses circumvent the broken enchant system, but to fix the broken enchant system.
Not that ANet will ever do that, but that'd fix not only the TGD farming problem, but would kill most of the unintuitive farming builds.

Fixing the system would have much more far reaching effects, but would be the better solution. I don’t think ANet is going to do it for GW1 though, so giving the boss a way to defeat this broken system is a good single topic solution (at least IMO). I hope they fix it in GW2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JupiterStarWarrior

The problem, though, is that people are talking about end-game bosses in general. The original topic, though, is one in particular: The Great Destroyer.

The truth of the matter is that I was having such a hard time deciding which endgame boss to talk about that I flipped a coin. I only have Prophecies and Eye of the North. Flipped a coin and the Great Destroyer won it, that’s how this thread came to be titled “Buff the Great Destroyer.” It could just as easily have been titled “Buff the Lich.” I really don’t mind one bit if people share their thoughts on Lich, Shiro, and Abbaddon.

Kanyatta · Aug 23, 2008, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadgerznPie

I agree. Let's go ahead and boost his HP level to over 9000 and and two skills, Ima Chargin' Mah Lazor, and Ima Firin' Mah Lazor, which deal at least 100 damage to adjacent foes.

^^ Best thing in this thread

"Ima Chargin' Mah Lazor" - Monster Skill/Effect, 3 sec cast time, 25 second recharge: TGD charges his lazor. This effect lasts 5 seconds.

"Ima Firin' Mah Lazor" - Monster Skill 3/4 sec cast time, 30 second recharge: You deal 9001 damage to target foe. Also deal 100 "Awesomeness" damage to adjacent foes. This skill can only be used while affected by "Ima Chargin' Mah Lazor" . Once this skill is used, the aforementioned effect wears off.

Kumu Honua · Aug 23, 2008, 01:13 AM // 01:13

There is a good reason to make them not all that difficult.

Yes, they are the last guy, but it's also the only way to go back and use the tokens you get for "Winning" if you don't use them then and there. Maybe they can just add it as a map location, but currently to go back you have to redo the end fight.

Tyla · Aug 23, 2008, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage

Pain Inverter damage caps at 80, so to exceed that he needs to damage multiple players or inflict damage multiple times. Putting him under Pain Inverter and then spamming interrupts on him will kill him quickly only if his counter attack to interrupts damages a full party. So that, at least, takes more than one character.

It's still killable in what, 10 seconds?

Quote:

Pain Inverter really is a godly skill though. It’s about as effective as any other skill against normal enemies, but against high end bosses it’s just uber. I should know after testing it on Frostmaw the Kinslayer. She popped up, and our team’s Warrior player, and Warrior hero, plus all three Norn Warriors, plus all 10 of our MM’s minions ran up to her and started attacking. Well Frostmaw used “Wurm Bile” on one of the minions and I saw it so I hit Pain Inverter, knowing it would be crazy. 80 damage per second times 15 targets = 1200 damage per second to Frostmaw. Watching her HP bar drop like a rock was hilarious and disheartening at the same time.

The only reason Pain Inverter "is so strong" is because ANet jumped the gun with numbers.

draxynnic · Aug 24, 2008, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage Tylos

Something needs to be done about Pain Inverter’s power vs. bosses IMO, but I can’t think of a good fix off the top of my head.

Put a limit on the amount of damage it can do per second?

Hyper Cutter · Aug 24, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage Tylos

Something needs to be done about Pain Inverter’s power vs. bosses IMO, but I can’t think of a good fix off the top of my head.

Make the bosses stop doing such ridiculous damage? After all, Pain Inverter just gives them a long-overdue taste of their own medicine...

draxynnic · Aug 25, 2008, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

Make the bosses stop doing such ridiculous damage? After all, Pain Inverter just gives them a long-overdue taste of their own medicine...

Wouldn't actually help. Pain Inverter at easily-achieved ranks doesn't particularly care if the target is doing 70 damage with its attacks or 700 - just how many people are being hit by those attacks.

Arkantos · Aug 25, 2008, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

Make the bosses stop doing such ridiculous damage? After all, Pain Inverter just gives them a long-overdue taste of their own medicine...

So in order to make an amazingly powerful skill vs bosses weaker, you suggest bosses be made weaker? That's a pretty bad suggestion.

Hyper.nl · Aug 26, 2008, 07:57 AM // 07:57

There will always be players who find builds that work very well against a certain boss. If they use their finding to play runner, be my guest.

( /notsigned )