Curse

Lishy · Aug 30, 2008, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I do want 100% balance and I'm aware that that will never happen.

But guess what? They went over the line in imbalance.

In an earlier post, you said you don't want campaign specific professions because they are imbalanced.
What about the 55 monk? Unbeatable with enchant removal! That, and 600/smite. Imba farming!
The KD warrior? Perma-KD, oh goodie!
Then theres the imbalanced PvE CoP mesmers. The new Ursan.
And minion bomber necromancers who are the core of sabsway.

Before complaining of Paragons, I will introduce you to [Vocal Minority] and [Soothing Images]

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 30, 2008, 10:06 PM // 22:06

I imagine that since GW2 is going to be a new game and presumably most skills will be reworked from the ground up, it would be much easier to balance the non-core professions from the start.

As far as visual changes, let us have Warriors who have the same physical build as Rangers and Ritualists, instead of being bulky.

Sir Seifus Halbred · Aug 30, 2008, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Hybrid

Only thing I would change is the Necro's appearance. In my post on the GW Inc forums Sorudo mentioned he/she would like the Necromancers to look somewhat like this:

I think that instead of the frail weak almost anorexic look that the Necros have now, something like that might look better.

So far guys, this is a great discussion that is going on. I like all(well most) opinions stated on this topic, and even the ones I don't like, I can kind of see where you are coming from.

Personally-I think the art and design department could have done a MUCH better job on armor and appearance.

In my opinion they don't look too good nor do they have the feel of the class.

Some examples:

Mesmers (Horrible selection of armor)
Paragons (Armor doesn't feel right)

Tyla · Aug 30, 2008, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

In an earlier post, you said you don't want campaign specific professions because they are imbalanced.

What?

Quote:

What about the 55 monk? Unbeatable with enchant removal! That, and 600/smite. Imba farming!

I heard I was talking about PvE?

Quote:

The KD warrior? Perma-KD, oh goodie!

Perma-KD? If your other Monk is so slow that s/he fails to put an anti-KD skill or anything like Guardian or prots in general then the only reason that is posed as "Imbalanced" is because your Monks are slow.

Quote:

Then theres the imbalanced PvE CoP mesmers. The new Ursan.

Did you know that CoP is a PvE skill, and PvE skill meaning extremely strong skills in the first place?

Quote:

And minion bomber necromancers who are the core of sabsway.

Make enemies in PvE smart. Hey look Sabway isn't overpowered. The only thing overpowered is the energy management there.

Quote:

Before complaining of Paragons, I will introduce you to [Vocal Minority] and [Soothing Images]

Both of which are bad and counterability =/= balanced. Plus the fact Soothing Images is a 2 second cast 15 energy hex, and Vocal Minority is a 20 second recharge hex. I wouldn't run this just to get rid of Paragons in the first place.

The slight imbalances we have on the core classes haven't been as imbalanced as the four additional classes have been at all.

Clarissa F · Aug 30, 2008, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Seifus Halbred

....Mesmers (Horrible selection of armor)....

Huh? Whuh? Maybe MALE mesmers...

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 31, 2008, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarissa F

Huh? Whuh? Maybe MALE mesmers...

Male mesmers are awesome, I do wish I had kept mine, but he was one of my earlier characters and I deleted my earlier characters...

Lady Raenef · Aug 31, 2008, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Assassin suits that are more realistic. Most assassins wouldn't wear a suit with half a billion spikes that could make even clinging to a wall create the hear shattering shriek of nails clanging against glass.

I want more faces. One hope I have is that GW2 has more customization like other games has. A customization that goes beyond character creation in even WoW. I want to choose my eyes, eye color, my nose, my mouth, ears, eye brow/facial hair color, and the main hair color. As well as a dozen styles to choose from. More than the 6-8 faces we have, the maybe 15 hair styles. I want perhaps...thirty or forty each. Keep the ones we have now, why destroy them? You can recreate your character that way. Though, I'm tired of everyone looking the same in the game. Take games like Soul Calibur (maybe a bad example, but unique in a way) which lets you customize an incredible amount. And those that are immature, yes, you can even make her breasts bigger. Why this was included, that was for the developers to decide, I suppose.

Moar customization, ftw.

glacialphoenix · Aug 31, 2008, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Raenef

I want to choose my eyes, eye color, my nose, my mouth, ears, eye brow/facial hair color, and the main hair color.

I'm not so fussed about the rest, but I'd really really like to see monks with more hair colours. What's with the choices being, well, generally black/brown/blonde? =\

Divine Hybrid · Aug 31, 2008, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

The slight imbalances we have on the core classes haven't been as imbalanced as the four additional classes have been at all.

Yeah, a monk being able to solo is a very small imbalance. I have only gotten into Guild Wars recently, from what I have heard, paragons have been nerfed numerous times and they are nowhere near as good as they used to be. Be specific, what exactly is imbalanced to you about the four classes?

Assassin and Ritualist I have no knowledge of, so I won't talk about them.

Dervish do a lot of damage, maybe even a little bit too much, but you have to be really good to stay alive. A fairly good warrior could beat a dervish with ease if the derv didn't know what he was doing.

Paragon, well, they are a support class, without allies a paragon is nothing...so what is imbalanced about them?

FlamingMetroid · Aug 31, 2008, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Hybrid

Paragon, well, they are a support class, without allies a paragon is nothing...so what is imbalanced about them?

LOL

guru needs to add the ability to change text size

Divine Hybrid · Aug 31, 2008, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Thanks for LOL'ing at my post.

Now instead of making a useless post, maybe you can enlighten me on how the paragon is imbalanced?

As I stated previously, I am fairly new to the game. Maybe I have overlooked all the cool l337 paragon builds where you can solo everything and 1 hit everybody.

FlamingMetroid · Aug 31, 2008, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Hybrid

Thanks for LOL'ing at my post.

Now instead of making a useless post, maybe you can enlighten me on how the paragon is imbalanced?

As I stated previously, I am fairly new to the game. Maybe I have overlooked all the cool l337 paragon builds where you can solo everything and 1 hit everybody.

leadership is infinite energy when in a group

chants are unstrippable and give ridiculous bonuses

spears are ranged swords that can cause DW and Daze

they have a basically endless IAS

the class has 80 AL and can use shields shields

Divine Hybrid · Aug 31, 2008, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingMetroid

leadership is infinite energy when in a group

chants are unstrippable and give ridiculous bonuses

spears are ranged swords that can cause DW and Daze

they have a basically endless IAS

the class has 80 AL and can use shields shields

Thanks for posting some details.

Like I said previously though, a paragon is only as good as the people around him. I wouldn't say (most) chants are overpowered, but there are some.

Had to look up what IAS meant

. I haven't really used my paragon as an effective damage dealer, most of my bar is full of support skills.

I think that 80AL suits the class well for a mid-line/front-line class.

FlamingMetroid · Aug 31, 2008, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Hybrid

Like I said previously though, a paragon is only as good as the people around him.

no, spears still do a good deal of damage, and Paras don't need allies around to use them.

Quote:

I wouldn't say (most) chants are overpowered, but there are some.

you should have seen them pre-nerf

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I think that 80AL suits the class well for a mid-line/front-line class.

no, that's like saying messes, necros, rits, assassins, and eles should have 80 AL.

Divine Hybrid · Aug 31, 2008, 06:40 AM // 06:40

True, but if the paragon had no allies around him...unless he ran...I don't see him surviving a large mob.

I think paragon is one of those few professions with which you cant solo...I mean if monks could solo...you would think that Paragons would be able to

.

I wish I played this game before the nerfs, I would of known how powerful a paragon was, plus I would of been playing the game longer.

Well messes, necros, rits, assasins, and eles dont really have armor...more like clothes(or strips of cloth on some females)...and some have spikes

upier · Aug 31, 2008, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Hybrid

Kind of hypocritical much? Can you please explain why you would not want Paragons in this game?

Like I said - it should apply for Ritualists also. BUT for starters I'd love to starts with Paragons.
The biggest problem is the chapter-system of GW where additional games replace the fee-system. That causes that additional games need to include additions that actually push the whole additional chapters from "oh, nice!" into "OMG! MUST HAVE!11!!".
And that only way to do so is to pretty much pump out things that are just more insane then the things we have in the game now.
That shows in terms of skills and in terms of professions.
And the paragons are just the crown in this game of unbalance.

Now a MAJOR re-balancing would be very much in order (so that they can stay in the game and my precious ritualist also!) - but I do wonder how it's even possible - considering that the paragon is very much a party support character and GW2 is supposedly going to be single player fiesta.

I'd look into that first before looking into what kind of skirts they wear! (Especially since if I remember correctly there won't be any (or is it much pieces of?) armour that will fit only one class but they will interchangeable which kinda solves the problem itself.)

pumpkin pie · Aug 31, 2008, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Paragon needs to have permanent wings, no helmet, looks stupid in my opinion, they need maybe halo instead of the floating stone head gear in front of the head, its just a rip off of elementalists's head gear.

ah, one more, the female elementalist dance.

mazey vorstagg · Aug 31, 2008, 09:11 AM // 09:11

More on what I said earlier (I'm a bit taken up with this idea).

I expect the class system in GW2 will be pretty relaxed, lots of roles will be available to each class and changing between them probably won't be too hard. I can imagine an attribute points like system, perhaps more flexible, that means you can invest points in yours roles while leveling. Hopefully your attribute points will also contribute to passive skills, improving your prowess in certain areas without impinging on your restricted skill bar.

The classes will no doubt be merged and combined as well as altered. Warriors may become proper tanks, with agro holding abilities and such, as well as those that reduce the damage you take at the expense of the damage you do.

I don't think we'll see many of the classes we know completely unchanged in GW2

Tyla · Aug 31, 2008, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Hybrid

Yeah, a monk being able to solo is a very small imbalance. I have only gotten into Guild Wars recently, from what I have heard, paragons have been nerfed numerous times and they are nowhere near as good as they used to be. Be specific, what exactly is imbalanced to you about the four classes?

Almost any class can solo at one point, and to be quite honest with you I can care less.

As for the extra classes, Assassins: Shadowstepping, which gets rid of the aspect of positioning when you use it.
Ritualists: Splinter Weapon pre-nerf in PvP was insane.
Dervish: Immunity to conditions with spammable, on demand deep wound which is also covered with Wounding Strike.
Paragon: Unremovable buffs, sword-like DPS from range.

Quote:

Dervish do a lot of damage, maybe even a little bit too much, but you have to be really good to stay alive. A fairly good warrior could beat a dervish with ease if the derv didn't know what he was doing.

1v1 means crap, and yes a highly skilled Warrior would be more effective than the tree or maybe even Wounding Strike.

Staying alive is up to your Monks, and you not being a total idiot with positioning or communication.

Quote:

Paragon, well, they are a support class, without allies a paragon is nothing...so what is imbalanced about them?

... This is a team based game, not a 1v1 game or a solo game. You will have a party for almost everything you do in this game.

Divine Hybrid · Aug 31, 2008, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Like I said - it should apply for Ritualists also. BUT for starters I'd love to starts with Paragons.
The biggest problem is the chapter-system of GW where additional games replace the fee-system. That causes that additional games need to include additions that actually push the whole additional chapters from "oh, nice!" into "OMG! MUST HAVE!11!!".
And that only way to do so is to pretty much pump out things that are just more insane then the things we have in the game now.
That shows in terms of skills and in terms of professions.
And the paragons are just the crown in this game of unbalance.

Now a MAJOR re-balancing would be very much in order (so that they can stay in the game and my precious ritualist also!) - but I do wonder how it's even possible - considering that the paragon is very much a party support character and GW2 is supposedly going to be single player fiesta.

I'd look into that first before looking into what kind of skirts they wear! (Especially since if I remember correctly there won't be any (or is it much pieces of?) armour that will fit only one class but they will interchangeable which kinda solves the problem itself.)

As much as I hate to say it...your right

I totally forgot the fact that GW2 is going to be single player based, if that is the case, that means many professions with either be left out or changed significantly. So Paragons, Ritualists, and even Monks might get the axe, but I still seriously doubt it. I'll just hope for the best, and maybe I'll still be able to see my precious paragon in GW2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Almost any class can solo at one point, and to be quite honest with you I can care less.

As for the extra classes, Assassins: Shadowstepping, which gets rid of the aspect of positioning when you use it.
Ritualists: Splinter Weapon pre-nerf in PvP was insane.
Dervish: Immunity to conditions with spammable, on demand deep wound which is also covered with Wounding Strike.
Paragon: Unremovable buffs, sword-like DPS from range.

But those classes can still be beaten right? I mean if they were god-like I would see why you have a problem with these 4 classes, but they aren't.

Assassin: I've heard that Assassins for the most part are a joke unless you are really skilled with them, and even then, its hard to survive.

Ritualist: Well, how about now, "post-nerf", they still as good?

Dervish: a good Dervish with points in earth prayers/scythe is fairly deadly, but most I see go for the flashy avatars(including myself on my first char

) and they die...fast.

Paragon: it may technically be "sword-like" DPS, but Paragons have to maintain their shouts/chants, and each take a second or two to cast, which lowers the dps by a fair amount.

Quote:

... This is a team based game, not a 1v1 game or a solo game. You will have a party for almost everything you do in this game.

If your talking about GW1, yes it is. GW2, wont be nearly as much of a team based game as GW1.