Curse

Zera Fang · Sep 15, 2008, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Okay, since I've been banned for three days due to my inability to tell noobs off eloquently enough to placate the GMs, I've decided to go ahead and do something that I don't normally do. I'm going to put in my two cents as to how some Mesmer Illusion elites can be reworked into something actually useful. (Note: All degeneration is considered health degeneration unless otherwise stated)

[Illusionary Weapon]
First off, how many people seriously use this spell? No one, that's who. For 15 energy you get saddled with sticking to the front lines and praying that you don't get your enchantment removed. Not only that, but you do very little damage. At max you're going to be doing around 42 damage every time you would normally hit in melee, assuming you're a Mesmer primary, otherwise your max damage will peak at 34 damage. It might seem like a lot, but when you factor in that you've got to kept yourself alive, snare your target or speed yourself up, as well as keeping in some form of attack speed boost, it just doesn't work out. So, how can it be changed to fit the Mesmer primary better?

1) Functionally change it to, (15 energy, 1 cast, 25 recharge) "Elite Hex Spell. For 5...15 seconds target foe and all nearby foes do 10...45% less attack damage."
2) Functionally change it to, (15 energy, 1 cast, 30 recharge) "Elite Hex Spell. For 1...12 seconds target foe takes 5...20 damage and loses 1...3 energy when hit by a melee attack."
3) Functionally change it to, (10 energy, 1 cast, 30 recharge) "Elite Enchantment Spell. For 20 seconds you cannot deal damage in attacks, whenever you receive attack damage the attacker takes 5...35 damage, if the attack was a critical attack the attacker takes an extra 5...15 damage."
4) Functionally change it to, (5 energy, 1 cast, 15 recharge) "Elite Spell. Target foe takes 3...15 damage for each Illusion Linked skill equipped. If target foe was under the effect of 2 or more Illusion linked hexes this spell recharges in half the time."

[Recurring Insecurity]
Here's another wasted elite. For ten energy you get to do, at max, three degen that reapplies itself every time the target is hexed. It would be great for a really, really, really, really long one on one fight, but they don't happen. The world of Guild Wars is made of spike, denial, and pressure... This one fails to fall anywhere in that. Hell, a Mending wammo can out regen it, which is just sad. With skills like Shrinking armor and Conjure Nightmare, you can easily reapply degen, as well as save a space for a more worthwhile elite. What can be done?

1) Functionally change it to, (10 energy, 2 cast, 45 recharge) "Elite Hex Spell. For 2...7 seconds this hex does nothing. When this hex ends all Mesmer hexes are reapplied to target foe and all adjacent foes. If this hex is removed prematurely hexes are not reapplied."
2) Functionally change it to, (15 energy, 2 cast, 45 recharge) "Elite Hex Spell. For 1...10 seconds target foe and all nearby foes suffer 3...7 degen, this hex is reapplied to target foe and all nearby foes if hexed again."
3) Functionally change it to, (5 energy, 1 cast, 25 recharge) "Elite Hex Spell. For 3...12 seconds target foe suffers 1...4 degen, this hex is reapplied if target foe uses a skill. When this hex ends target foe takes 1 damage for every 3...1 seconds this spell was in effect."

[Crippling Anguish]
Another great example of something that needs reworked. This spell is basically a clone of Imagined Burden except for a 10 second faster recharge and 3 degen. 3 degen is anguish? Honestly. Conjure Nightmare must be like your eye-balls popping out of your head bad. Pah. Illusion magic certainly has enough easily applied degen, there could be more to this spell...

1) Functionally change it to, (15 energy, 1/4 cast, 30 recharge) "Elite Spell. If target foe is moving they are knocked down and suffer 15...80 damage. Target foe and all nearby foes suffer from crippled for 1...12 seconds."
2) Functionally change it to, (5 energy, 1 cast, 15 recharge) "Elite Hex Spell. For 3...12 seconds target foe moves 10...33% slower and suffers 1...5 degen. This hex ends prematurely if target foe enters a stance."
3) Functionally change it to, (10 energy, 1 cast, 15 recharge) "Elite Hex Spell. For 1...10 seconds target foe moves 10% slower and suffers 3...15 damage every second for each hex and condition they are suffering from.

Snow Bunny · Sep 15, 2008, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Crippling Anguish makes me want to commit hate crimes every time it got cast on me. It does not need a buff.

Betrayer_Of_Wind · Sep 15, 2008, 10:58 PM // 22:58

/signed
great suggestions,since i never use those damn skills
making a build around those skills is just a waste of time...

smilingscar · Sep 15, 2008, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Crippling Anguish makes me want to commit hate crimes every time it got cast on me. It does not need a buff.

And yet it's kinda lame compared to shared burden, imagined burden (as it's non elite), or even hidden caltrops.

Why would you bring crippling anguish over imagined burden anyway? The only benefits are 10s of recharge (20 vs 30...woo-hoo...) and 3 degen. And in an illusion build, do you normally need more degen?

Zera Fang · Sep 15, 2008, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Crippling Anguish makes me want to commit hate crimes every time it got cast on me. It does not need a buff.

But how often do you see it? I think in the last month bouncing around RA/TA I've only seen it once. People saw that if they wanted to slow someone down and do decent damage to switch to a fast cast Water Magic Mesmer. Even with the slight nerf to that, I doubt that this skill, as is, will come out of the wood work. It costs too much energy to energy manage nicely, especially to slow down one opponent. Shared Burden is better, at least in mob control and kiting. That's why I chose it to re-evaluate. Now, if we can just get Guild Wars to listen...

Lyynyyrd · Sep 15, 2008, 11:40 PM // 23:40

3) Functionally change it to, (10 energy, 1 cast, 15 recharge) "Elite Hex Spell. For 1...10 seconds target foe moves 10% slower and suffers 3...15 damage every second for each hex and condition they are suffering from.

LOL YES

BRING BACK SOUL BARBS/FRAGILITY PRESSURE~~

Sniper22 · Sep 15, 2008, 11:41 PM // 23:41

I agree that most of those skills need a tweak, but doesn't recurring insecurities work with soul barbs? Hex a target with soul barbs and this skill and it will deal double soul barbs damage, although I find it kinda weak that the effectiveness of this skill is based on one skill in a secondary profession.

Zera Fang · Sep 15, 2008, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper22

I agree that most of those skills need a tweak, but doesn't recurring insecurities work with soul barbs? Hex a target with soul barbs and this skill and it will deal double soul barbs damage, although I find it kinda weak that the effectiveness of this skill is based on one skill in a secondary profession.

As far as I know, it does work with Soul Barbs... But, that's about it. As far as anything else goes the amount of Illusion Magic you need to make the spell worth its cost in pressure ... Sort of defeats the purpose. I think they originally made the skill for Domination users that wanted a bit of background degen while they're spamming Backfire/Wastrel's/Empathy or something, but they failed to realize that using a cover hex like Shrinking armor or Conjure Phantasm would be better as they are non-elites and recharge much faster.

O,..,O' Could be wrong, though. Honestly, I can't see any use for this spell as is other than Soul Barb spike.

Lishy · Sep 15, 2008, 11:54 PM // 23:54

I do not support the IW buff.
Some people like the current concept, but want to simply see buffs.

Bash me if you must.. But I love the idea of a Melee caster without the retarded W/E fire stormers.
IW can easily be tweaked to help rid of the mesmer "squishy"
Here's an example:

Elite Enchantment Spell. (30 seconds.) While under the effects of this enchantment, you gain +15 armor. You deal no damage in melee, but target foe and all adjacent foes take 8...40...45 damage whenever you attack in melee.

This way the skill allows mesmers to go "front line", and deal recently armor ignoring AoE damage. It doesn't match a warrior, and if you enchantment is stripped, your build is ruined, but it seems it would be pretty fun.
Maybe my version could be balanced a bit. But you get my point.

Mesmers are masters of illusion. A good concept objective would be to "decoy".
You aren't the killer. That's the Warrior's job. You put pressure on enemies.
Equipping IW and spamming anti-melee hexes to give enemies the option of enduring it and taking damage in exchange for dealing damage and attempting to relieve the pressure, or running to another target and suffering stress of IW stacked with degen.

That would be a great example to how an IW mesmer could work. And if ANET realized how much flexibility we can have with that one skill, there would be a LOT more mesmers!

Besides, in concept arts, didn't mesmer use a rapier? Naturally, they should of been a melee caster.

MsMassacre · Sep 16, 2008, 12:23 AM // 00:23

IW is fun in pve. With the right build, it's no slouch in damage, and the squishy factor isnt a problem unless your hero builds suck. I wouldn't say no to a buff of some kind to make it more useable, but reworking it entirely is bad.

Recurring Ins is awful, I agree, but I think it needs a more radical rework than what you're proposing. From a pve perspective, degen elites need to bow at the alter of Searing Flames.

Incidentally this proposal:
"1) Functionally change it to, (10 energy, 2 cast, 45 recharge) "Elite Hex Spell. For 2...7 seconds this hex does nothing. When this hex ends all Mesmer hexes are reapplied to target foe and all adjacent foes. If this hex is removed prematurely hexes are not reapplied."
is flawed. The spell works better with fewer pts in illusion.

Crippling Anquish needs something but I'm not loving your suggestions. Maybe a reduced attack speed instead of the degen.

Zera Fang · Sep 16, 2008, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsMassacre

Recurring Ins is awful, I agree, but I think it needs a more radical rework than what you're proposing. From a pve perspective, degen elites need to bow at the alter of Searing Flames.

Incidentally this proposal:
"1) Functionally change it to, (10 energy, 2 cast, 45 recharge) "Elite Hex Spell. For 2...7 seconds this hex does nothing. When this hex ends all Mesmer hexes are reapplied to target foe and all adjacent foes. If this hex is removed prematurely hexes are not reapplied."
is flawed. The spell works better with fewer pts in illusion.

Crippling Anquish needs something but I'm not loving your suggestions. Maybe a reduced attack speed instead of the degen.

Sorry, I think more in PvP than PvE. If you have an idea as to what its PvE form could be, I'd be curious to hear it.

When I wrote that description I was thinking to place Recurring and then stack hexes on top of it, not stack hexes and then placing Recurring, which is what I think you're talking about. A more accurate description of what I was trying to present:
Recurring Insecurities. Functionally change it to, (10 energy, 2 cast, 45 recharge) "Elite Hex Spell. For 2...7 seconds this hex does nothing. When this hex ends all Mesmer hexes placed during the duration of Recurring Insecurities are reapplied to target foe and copied onto all adjacent foes. If this hex is removed prematurely hexes are not reapplied."

Although, on re-examination, it could be overpowered like that in PvP. Would be wonderful in PvE, though. You could easily give a close mob a entire cluster of hexes, Empathy, Ether Lord, Backfire, even Visions of Regret if you had another Mesmer along. I don't know, the name Recurring Insecurities sort of limits what the skill might be able to do...

See, when I see Crippling Anguish, I don't think a slower attack speed. I wouldn't be against the idea of it, since there are only two other (as far as I remember) skills, Faintheartedness and Sum of All Fears, to slow attack speed. Although, slowing a foe's attack speed and movement speed seems a bit redundant to me. Add degen/damage on to that and it would be over powered. If there was no damage, where's the anguish? If there's no movement reduction, where's the crippling? Maybe an entirely new name for some of these skills would be better.

theonetheonlybruce · Sep 16, 2008, 01:27 AM // 01:27

i love [iw] my gwen is best tank ever with that and i think it should get buffed not changed

draxynnic · Sep 16, 2008, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zera Fang

Sorry, I think more in PvP than PvE. If you have an idea as to what its PvE form could be, I'd be curious to hear it.

When I wrote that description I was thinking to place Recurring and then stack hexes on top of it, not stack hexes and then placing Recurring, which is what I think you're talking about. A more accurate description of what I was trying to present:
Recurring Insecurities. Functionally change it to, (10 energy, 2 cast, 45 recharge) "Elite Hex Spell. For 2...7 seconds this hex does nothing. When this hex ends all Mesmer hexes placed during the duration of Recurring Insecurities are reapplied to target foe and copied onto all adjacent foes. If this hex is removed prematurely hexes are not reapplied."

Although, on re-examination, it could be overpowered like that in PvP. Would be wonderful in PvE, though. You could easily give a close mob a entire cluster of hexes, Empathy, Ether Lord, Backfire, even Visions of Regret if you had another Mesmer along. I don't know, the name Recurring Insecurities sort of limits what the skill might be able to do...

See, when I see Crippling Anguish, I don't think a slower attack speed. I wouldn't be against the idea of it, since there are only two other (as far as I remember) skills, Faintheartedness and Sum of All Fears, to slow attack speed. Although, slowing a foe's attack speed and movement speed seems a bit redundant to me. Add degen/damage on to that and it would be over powered. If there was no damage, where's the anguish? If there's no movement reduction, where's the crippling? Maybe an entirely new name for some of these skills would be better.

Shadows of Fear and Meekness also slow attack speed.

With Recurring Insecurities... possibly it could be (10 energy, 2 cast, 45 recharge) Elite Hex Spell. For 5..17 seconds, one other Mesmer hex on target foe will be reapplied to target and spread to adjacent foes every 3 seconds.

zelgadissan · Sep 16, 2008, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

With Recurring Insecurities... possibly it could be (10 energy, 2 cast, 45 recharge) Elite Hex Spell. For 5..17 seconds, one other Mesmer hex on target foe will be reapplied to target and spread to adjacent foes every 3 seconds.

/signed for this one with maybe slightly less length and shorter recharge. Maybe max 13, recharge 30, and a clause that other copies of Recurring can't be transferred.

Darkchyld · Sep 16, 2008, 04:43 AM // 04:43

I agree with a lot of these reworked skills. Domination magic always appealed to me more than Illusion did, so I'm all for a slight Illusion Magic buff.

Zera Fang · Sep 16, 2008, 05:25 AM // 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkchyld

I agree with a lot of these reworked skills. Domination magic always appealed to me more than Illusion did, so I'm all for a slight Illusion Magic buff.

Me too. Illusion focuses mainly around degeneration of health and anti-melee hexes, but since degeneration is capped at ten and anti-melee stuff is sort of ify it really does need a buff to keep up with the other spike/pressure builds out there.

Pour One For Jose · Sep 16, 2008, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zera Fang

[Recurring Insecurity]
Here's another wasted elite. For ten energy you get to do, at max, three degen that reapplies itself every time the target is hexed. It would be great for a really, really, really, really long one on one fight, but they don't happen. The world of Guild Wars is made of spike, denial, and pressure... This one fails to fall anywhere in that. Hell, a Mending wammo can out regen it, which is just sad. With skills like Shrinking armor and Conjure Nightmare, you can easily reapply degen, as well as save a space for a more worthwhile elite. What can be done?

soul barbs spike gogogogogogogogogogo

draxynnic · Sep 16, 2008, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

/signed for this one with maybe slightly less length and shorter recharge. Maybe max 13, recharge 30, and a clause that other copies of Recurring can't be transferred.

My impression is that, with the possible exception of Assassin's Promise, you could only have one hex of the same kind on you at once. Maybe I'm showing my ignorance here, though...

If it's not a general property of hexes, it certainly should be for this one - only one copy of this version of Recurring Insecurity on a target at once.

Stormlord Alex · Sep 16, 2008, 07:43 AM // 07:43

For IW, the idea I've always played around with was...

Elite enchantment spell
For X seconds, target ally's attacks cannot be blocked and deal +Y damage.

Then IW can be, you know, useful in making warriors do more, bigger domage.

zelgadissan · Sep 16, 2008, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

My impression is that, with the possible exception of Assassin's Promise, you could only have one hex of the same kind on you at once. Maybe I'm showing my ignorance here, though...

.........doh. You're right. I will ban myself from further conversation on this until the common sense is back in my head.

In that case though, it might actually hurt the Illusion line as you couldn't use the hexes that have an end effect - spells like [[Shrinking Armor], [[Phantom Pain] - and things like [[Clumsiness] and [[Wandering Eye] don't really last long enough to benefit from this. It would almost have to be teamed with a another mesmer's Domination hexes.

Still /signed for your idea though.