Curse

rumensechkov · Sep 28, 2008, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Paragon

This is my first post in this forum and it's main idea is to be read by the Arena.net game developers. First of all I want to thank you and congratulate you on making such a brilliant game. The problem I'm writing about is the Paragon.
First a little information about my in-game experience. I've played almost all of the characters in PvP arenas and some of them in PvE. After testing most of them i decided to make a Paragon for my main character, which seemed to be the class that mostly suited my playing style. I made it legendary survivor and invested much time and in-game funds in this character.
Now to the real the real problem. The paragon started as an imbalanced class in the game due to its immense power provided from shouts and chants affecting the whole party. Afterward some of the skills got nerfed which was expected and totally normal, but during the process a problem has occurred. The Paragon became a great secondary profession and a complex primary one, thus resulting in less people playing and creating primary Paragons. Now days there are almost none active PvE Paragon players, and also Paragon PvP uses are neglected. In this way no one designs team or solo builds, which include a Paragon or exploit it's existing powers. For that reason it is really hard to find a group for specific locations in PvE such as Underworld, FoW, Tomb Of Primeval Kings and many others, where the team build is very important for making a really meaningful run. In PvP the use of the Paragon is also a lot less, than other classes. This profession is the only one that can't solo farm anything in Hard Mode and very few things in Normal Mode compared to all the other professions. All of this can be easily checked by viewing the prices of Paragon runes, which doesn't exceed its basic price of 100g, or by going in any of the popular solo and team farming locations and finding no Paragons there.
My suggestion is finding a way to make the Paragon a more playable primary profession. This can be achieved by making it's primary attribute more useful and the skills linked to it more powerful. It will be also very efficient to make some skills very useful and non-replaceable for solo and team farming. After all when choosing what PvE character to make, you take in mind if you can use it for solo farming and high end PvE such as the listed above.
For example Leadership can be made to extend the durations of shouts, chants and echoes. On the other side shouts, chants and echoes durations itself can be decreased, thus forcing you to be a primary Paragon to use their full potential. Also another good approach is to improve the qualities of the armor i.e. more energy regeneration, more armor...

Please, every one who read this rather long post leave a comment to support or reject my theory.

P.S. The statements and ideas in this post reflect my own opinions and aren't altered by other peoples interests or visions on this matter.

zelgadissan · Sep 28, 2008, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumensechkov

...no one designs team or solo builds, which include a Paragon or exploit it's existing powers. For that reason it is really hard to find a group for specific locations in PvE such as Underworld, FoW, Tomb Of Primeval Kings and many others, where the team build is very important for making a really meaningful run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumensechkov

My suggestion is finding a way to make the Paragon a more playable primary profession. This can be achieved by making it's primary attribute more useful and the skills linked to it more powerful.

lolwut?

First off, as for your farming comments - you have multiple character slots. If you want to farm, there's plenty of potential to do so. As for what I've quoted - uh, Imbagon. That should be all the serious argument I need for both comments. Also, if you need more energy regeneration or armor on a Paragon, please see this post, because I have a feeling you could use it.

I promise I'm not trying to sound like an asshole, but you really don't know what you're talking about. Paragons - PvE versions in particular - are still easily the most imbalanced profession in the entire game.

/notsigned

Oh, just realized - if this is a troll, you sir, win an internet.

Gift3d · Sep 28, 2008, 01:19 AM // 01:19

As soon as i read "make leadership more useful and add better linked skills" i just stopped reading and assumed you had no idea what you were talking about. That's beyond ridiculous.

When i first started playing paragons, i thought they sucked too. Then i got a clue and learned how to play them, silly me. They're great.

Cathode_Reborn · Sep 28, 2008, 01:24 AM // 01:24

I'd like to remind you that Paragons are the most broken and powerful class in PvE.

They arn't what they used to be in PvP, but because all their buffs/skills are completely unremovable and braindead to use, no one likes it when they are viable.

You're in for it now...

II Lucky Charm II · Sep 28, 2008, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Your post is so disjointed. I can not follow what you are trying to say. At first you stated that

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumensechkov

paragon started as an imbalanced class in the game due to its immense power

and then you moved on to describing its role in soloing and how paragon is neglected in pvp? Paragon was never made to "solo" (no matter if it is before or after the nerf) or to be the main power in the team. Paragon is only good support profession. You've got the wrong logic about paragon. And, I disagree with you on saying that

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumensechkov

Paragon PvP uses are neglected

You do not need to overwhelm your team with useless shout and chants. You only need a specific chant/shout from the paragon profession to support the team. It was never made to be the main power of the team. Also, you need not to add more energy to paragons! you can manage it fine with leadership

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumensechkov

Also another good approach is to improve the qualities of the armor i.e. more energy regeneration, more armor...

You also do not need to increase the paragon's armor. Paragon is fine the way it is right now.

FlamingMetroid · Sep 28, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

8/10

admirable trolling good sir

[Morkai] · Sep 28, 2008, 02:18 AM // 02:18

More energy regen and more armor.

Nice joke.

I disagree with Flaming Metroid. You only get a 4 for your trolling attempt.

joshuarodger · Sep 28, 2008, 03:02 AM // 03:02

are you kidding? they're called IMBAGONS for a reason. if i had one in every party i was in, i'd be a happy monk... or a bored one. also i don't see many /P's running around outside of warriors, because they aren't a "great" secondary profession. there are very few "great" secondaries and paragon falls into that "not great" category. it's an extremely useful primary profession in any party if the user knows how to play it properly. i suggest you read over the paragon forum a little more because if you're having trouble playing this prof, you're doing something wrong.

Lycan Nibbler · Sep 28, 2008, 03:21 AM // 03:21

I love this thread.

Oh btw /not signed

farmerfez · Sep 28, 2008, 03:34 AM // 03:34

ever heard of the imbagon?

Da Rk Bl Ad E · Sep 28, 2008, 04:11 AM // 04:11

You must be really bored and lonely to have to troll for lols.

ALF71BE · Sep 28, 2008, 04:25 AM // 04:25

What is this "Imbagon" you guys talk about and what does it do? Will I be finally able to finish Consulate Docks with it?

Wanna farm? Get an ele or assassin. Paras were never for soloing. Actually I don't think any profession was ever for that, considering how important teamwork is in GW.

If you don't see Paragons in PvE it's because they're too bussy doing everything in the game H/H because Paras don't need a human team at all, ever. Kinda hard to fail being one y'know.

The fact that they're boring is another story. But then, you have 8 character slots right?

majikmajikmajik · Sep 28, 2008, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

What is this "Imbagon" you guys talk about and what does it do? Will I be finally able to finish Consulate Docks with it?

Wanna farm? Get an ele or assassin. Paras were never for soloing. Actually I don't think any profession was ever for that, considering how important teamwork is in GW.

If you don't see Paragons in PvE it's because they're too bussy doing everything in the game H/H because Paras don't need a human team at all, ever. Kinda hard to fail being one y'know.

The fact that they're boring is another story. But then, you have 8 character slots right?

a "Imba"gon or imbalanced paragon is a build that uses a factions allaince skill called save yourself to boost the armor of all party members by +100 and bunch of other goodies. honestly if you havnt even made it past consulate docks with your paragon then you have no right to talk it down becuz you havnt even begun to experiance it yet.

just try using the search button and im sure you will find TONS of info on imbagon and paragons.

White Lies · Sep 28, 2008, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Loltrollfail.

Paragons are one of the most incredibal professions in the game: they can do just about anything in a party. You name it, they can probably do it.

The only reason i dont have a paragon myself is i find NF a tadd on slow side, especialy on the first island which is a grindfest i hate doing. I have a PvP paragon though, which im pretty much always on when im not in PvE :P

again, loltrollfailed.

~Lies

Picuso · Sep 28, 2008, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by majikmajikmajik

a "Imba"gon or imbalanced paragon is a build that uses a factions allaince skill called save yourself to boost the armor of all party members by +100 and bunch of other goodies. honestly if you havnt even made it past consulate docks with your paragon then you have no right to talk it down becuz you havnt even begun to experiance it yet.

Sarcasm Detector Failure?

inb4lck.

Arduin · Sep 28, 2008, 10:10 AM // 10:10

I think it is wrong to ask Anet for rebalancing the Paragon when you state: The Paragon became a great secondary profession and a complex primary one, thus resulting in less people playing and creating primary Paragons.

You'd better start making your own builds, instead of wanting Anet to hand you them on a silver platter. There's nothing wrong with a complex profession. (hi Mesmer).

Dr.Jones · Sep 28, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

i realy dont think paragons are that bad.... see Save Yourselves. i would rather take a para then a rit or sin any day.

rumensechkov · Sep 28, 2008, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Thank you all for your quick reply.

I always love a good discussion, after all it is the way to progress.
I have been mostly misunderstood. I wanted to say that I like to play a Paragon very much and, by my oppinion I do it very well. Of course, I've heard about imbagons and such. Actually I use a very nice team build exploiting "they are on fire" and searing flames ele. The problem is that when i want to go to UW or FoW nobody wants a Paragon in their party. And also when I have an idea about a team build using 2 Paras, there aren't any good Paragons (or maybe I'm at the wrong time) that I can try it with. However by my oppinion Paragon is a perfect PvE charcter, just not very much played and not very popular in high end PvE like uw or fow. This is due to low playability of Paragon, and ppl say: "why should i play a team build which includes a Paragon and wait for ages to find a good one, when I can just play the regular team builds with more common proffesions." About solo farming I was trying to say, that Paragons need just one similar to Defy Pain skill to succesfully farm trolls or grawl in hard mode which is rather stupid, but many people will start to play a paragon just for that particular reason, thus making it more playable. About more armor i meant that it can give a bonus like 10 armor vs holy damage which makes it more appealing again for the masses. And finally about PvP i also like it very much, but there arent many team builds that use a paragon. However it is a very powerful proffesion due to many skills like spear swipe (non-conditoinal daze skill) and many others (don't have the time to write them all) that cause cripple, deep wound, burning, damage, ias, party support... Thank you once more for taking your time looking through this thread.

A11Eur0 · Sep 28, 2008, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Every time my friends and I run FoW we take an imbagon. I'm usually that imbagon. I've actually gotten bored playing that role because I've done it so much. Walk into ToA and announce "Imbagon lfp FoW clear HM" and you'll get a couple invites, guaranteed.

Paragons aren't a solo profession. That's just a fact. I suggest you take your at least 3 other character slots and make yourself a farming character, or multiple. Me, when there's a consumable drop event/weekend, I farm raptors with my Warrior. I farm orr emblems with my monk. I VS farm with my ele. I duo farm UW with my necro and monk. I can zaishen farm with my ranger. Hmm, what else...

If you want a paragon, make the imbagon build and "farm" the FoW end chest, or "farm" doa and mallyx.

FlamingMetroid · Sep 28, 2008, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Paragons don't need to be made more powerful just because they aren't popular, that's a horrible way to balance a game.

And about paragons not having skills that let them farm easily, skills in GW should be made for use in PvP and that's it. If by some chance you can use a certain skill combo to farm things, that's great, but it doesn't mean other classes need farming specific skills.